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Tips on removing clothing noise on lavs?
Old 1st September 2011
  #1
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Tips on removing clothing noise on lavs?

Probably asking the impossible here, but Im mixing a show with 80% lavs and have a lot of clothing shash to try and clean up.

The booms are far too wide on the problem shots, Exteriors and over-reverberant rooms, and as its a low budget production their is no option for ADR. Often I only have one take to work with "thankyou production" so im wondering if you guys have a get out of jail card.

I have used Izotope with vaying success and will have access to a cedar DNS2000 next week but have not used that unit before so not sure if it could help as i hear its better for broadband noise, traffic etc but not so hot on scratchy sounds.

The problem shots have the lavs tucked well under clothing so sound very muddy and scratchy, often like heavy vinyl crackle but by EQing to heavily i loose all clarity.

Any ideas would be much appriciated.
Old 1st September 2011
  #2
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danijel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
I have used Izotope with vaying success
Have you tried with Izotope Decrackle?
Also, cleaning up in-between the dialog lines can help a lot.
Old 1st September 2011
  #3
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Lipflap's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
Probably asking the impossible here, but Im mixing a show with 80% lavs and have a lot of clothing shash to try and clean up.

The problem shots have the lavs tucked well under clothing so sound very muddy and scratchy, often like heavy vinyl crackle but by EQing to heavily i loose all clarity.
I agree with what Danijel said. If you're on good terms with the gods, you may be able to help the rustle by doing successive iterations with good de-click and de-crackle software. Start by killing off the largest clicks, then do repeated passes to go for progressively smaller ones. Then begin to attack the crackle in several passes, again starting aggressively and pulling back on subsequent passes. You may, just may, be able to help with a de-esser, but I wouldn't hold my breath. A broadband noise reducer likely won't help you, as it's the wrong tool.

Whatever you choose to do, KEEP A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL REGIONS! You will need this if you screw up the whole job and ruin the sound, and you will need to listen to the original sound at each processing iteration so that you never lose touch with what you are trying to achieve. It's easy to become so focused cleaning up the noise that you don't pay attention to the voice quality, which you are slowly, slowly killing. Something about the baby and the bathwater...

And, as Danijel said, replace the spaces between words with sensible rustle/room tone. Finally, don't forget to look into alternate takes. Even if every take is corrupted with mic rustle, there's a chance that the rustle doesn't always occur at the same spot in each take. So...you may be able to fix the problem without totally wrecking the voice quality.

Mic rustle is much like distortion: be happy if you merely make it sound better, for it's unlikely that you will eliminate it completely without doing massive "collateral Damage."
Old 1st September 2011
  #4
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I strongly emphasize frequent checking of what you've done against the original, and keeping all the various version of the stages of your progress handy. It is very easy to improve the clip into a ruin with these tools. In many years of playing different versions of NR etc for directors, I have found that the winner is usually one that has much less done to it than what you COULD do...

phil p
Old 1st September 2011
  #5
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Smallbudgetguru's Avatar
I generally use the de Oxford (sonnox) declick plug. IMHO it can't get better than that
Old 2nd September 2011
  #6
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Jaymz's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
It is very easy to improve the clip into a ruin with these tools.
So very true. Back home in Ireland, I always referred to this scene from a popular Irish comedy as the perfect analogy for such things;

Old 14th September 2011
  #7
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Progress

Thanks for the tips, I have managed to get some good results with the Waves x-crakle and Sonox de crackle tools which had a nice de-click and de-pop feature.

Several small passes has been great at getting rid of the horrible clicks and thumps leaving just less offensive shh sounds which i have generally hidden with some foley or Bg fx. Still not having any luck with Izotope de-crackle, Also a note on Izotope, does anyone have much luck with the De clipper?? as anything I put through that, seems to come out worse even at very high thresholds. Im using the RTAS plugin versions as i dont have the standaolne on this workstation but i assume the algorithms are the same

If i find a magic wand for shh and crackle, Ill post it in the nest few weeks but for now the extra time with these tools has saved the day.
Old 15th September 2011
  #8
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Alexey Lukin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
Also a note on Izotope, does anyone have much luck with the De clipper?? as anything I put through that, seems to come out worse even at very high thresholds.
Please post your before/after wav sample. Perhaps you are not setting a threshold or a makeup gain correctly.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #9
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PeteJE's Avatar
Best success will come from editorial work. Cut alt works / syllables / letters (borrow and steal them from elsewhere in the track if necessary) to systematically remove the most difficult hits. Longer rubbing / static with no alts will be difficult. Use the cleanup plugins gently and progressively (a little, then more on the result, etc).
Old 23rd September 2011
  #10
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Matti's Avatar
Still, next time rig the mics properly

Matti
Old 23rd September 2011
  #11
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audiobob's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
Also a note on Izotope, does anyone have much luck with the De clipper?? as anything I put through that, seems to come out worse even at very high thresholds.
De clipper is brilliant software. It of course has its limits, but he key for me is to bring the threshold just a hair, and I mean a frog hair, below the waveform level after previewing. Just lopping a bit off the top. Too much will mess it up for sure. I've seen the dynamic range spring back to life with iZotope de clipper. Have never really had success with Waves de clipper.

iZotope made me look like a genius in under 2 minutes. I took all the credit of course.
Old 23rd September 2011
  #12
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stoltz's Avatar
 

ahhhh man I've done a few projects now that were heavily relient on lavailer radio mics, WAY more than they should. to which I've lost litrually MONTHS of my life "cleaning" audio for use in a mix.

so far I've got the best results from Izatope RX advanced, allows me to peer into the sound witht the spectrograph editor & hunt the offending sound. de-crackle & de-click are great for these. I've also had soem success using the Waves tools to compliment RX aswel.

I think I've been meaning to do (but havent gotten around too just yet) is set up a lav mic on some material & then generate contact noise from clothes & impacts, then take this library hits, pops, rustles etc & create a library of noise profiles (using the learn function in X-noise & de-hiss), I'm hoping this will allow me to zero in on specific types of rustle & noise artifacts in the future.
Old 26th September 2011
  #13
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slowly but surely

All very helpfull, Thanks

Heavy Editing and soft use of the "Magic tools" seem to be the formula here. I found myself spending hours chopping alt takes and finding even just letters or a breath but its all helped enormously and left just a pass or two with de crackler ect and you wouldn't know there was a problem. Just wish i had the luxury of time for all productions but the late nights editing are saving me hours in the mix.
I will have to spend some time with Izotope untill we are friends and then hopfully this whole process will be a breeze in the future.

The quickest way i have found to de-noise so far is to have an extra Nouse reduction track benith my DX tracks with all the Magic tools on, then when i have a problem, copy the region onto that track, tweak accordingly and print the result to a new track. All very quick and tidy in the session and keeping the orriginal so i can A/B on the solos.

Anyone else found a quick workflow for this?

M1
Old 26th September 2011
  #14
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RedTuxedo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I strongly emphasize frequent checking of what you've done against the original, and keeping all the various version of the stages of your progress handy. It is very easy to improve the clip into a ruin with these tools. In many years of playing different versions of NR etc for directors, I have found that the winner is usually one that has much less done to it than what you COULD do...

phil p
+ too many to count
Old 26th September 2011
  #15
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiobob View Post
De clipper is brilliant software. It of course has its limits, but he key for me is to bring the threshold just a hair, and I mean a frog hair, below the waveform level after previewing. Just lopping a bit off the top. Too much will mess it up for sure. I've seen the dynamic range spring back to life with iZotope de clipper. Have never really had success with Waves de clipper.

iZotope made me look like a genius in under 2 minutes. I took all the credit of course.
+1, De-clipper has saved me on multiple occasions, especially in rescuing loud screams the production mixer wasn't prepared for.
Old 27th September 2011
  #16
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PeteJE's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
All very helpfull, Thanks

Heavy Editing and soft use of the "Magic tools" seem to be the formula here. I found myself spending hours chopping alt takes and finding even just letters or a breath but its all helped enormously and left just a pass or two with de crackler ect and you wouldn't know there was a problem. Just wish i had the luxury of time for all productions but the late nights editing are saving me hours in the mix.
I will have to spend some time with Izotope untill we are friends and then hopfully this whole process will be a breeze in the future.

The quickest way i have found to de-noise so far is to have an extra Nouse reduction track benith my DX tracks with all the Magic tools on, then when i have a problem, copy the region onto that track, tweak accordingly and print the result to a new track. All very quick and tidy in the session and keeping the orriginal so i can A/B on the solos.

Anyone else found a quick workflow for this?

M1
Nice work! Truly the best way. Alteration of source is always the least desirable, so, you get a good source and that means lots of editorial. Your workflow ideas sounds good. I am in an environment where live rules. Any heavy Izotopr or other "offline" fixing becomes an editorial function and those tracks are returned to me for the mix. Otherwise, I am using in-line, realtime devices in a chain that are automated - ie: Cedar, etc.
Old 27th September 2011
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Very much depending on the material - I split out parts depending on their NR needs to different tracks and set a 'process as individual files' batch processing with light reduction and then maybe another round and go have a cup of tea or do some emails - not always applicable but useful when it is, especially useful on a current doco series with a lot of IV's shot in similar conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moke1 View Post
All very helpfull, Thanks

Heavy Editing and soft use of the "Magic tools" seem to be the formula here. I found myself spending hours chopping alt takes and finding even just letters or a breath but its all helped enormously and left just a pass or two with de crackler ect and you wouldn't know there was a problem. Just wish i had the luxury of time for all productions but the late nights editing are saving me hours in the mix.
I will have to spend some time with Izotope untill we are friends and then hopfully this whole process will be a breeze in the future.

The quickest way i have found to de-noise so far is to have an extra Nouse reduction track benith my DX tracks with all the Magic tools on, then when i have a problem, copy the region onto that track, tweak accordingly and print the result to a new track. All very quick and tidy in the session and keeping the orriginal so i can A/B on the solos.

Anyone else found a quick workflow for this?

M1
Old 27th September 2011
  #18
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matt thomas's Avatar
Ha, on the main page the title of this thread is shortened to "tips on removing clothing"

heh

Matt
Old 28th September 2011
  #19
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Quote:
"Ha, on the main page the title of this thread is shortened to "tips on removing clothing"

Matt"
Haha That would be great for the noise problem but unfortunatley this show ain't Baywatch so im not sure the veiw would be too attractive. heh
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