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Anyone using Blu-Ray for backup?
Old 7th July 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 
Fred Story's Avatar
 

Anyone using Blu-Ray for backup?

Given the size of many audio post projects, Blu-Ray would SEEM to be an ideal backup format. While I found a couple of posts about Blu-Ray backup (with only a single response to each), I'm very interested to know if anyone is using Blu-Ray as a primary backup format for large audio post projects.

If so, any unexpected quirks? Any concerns?

Thanks!
Old 7th July 2009
  #2
Gear Addict
 

With hard drives and firewrie redundant raid drives being as cheap as they are, I wouldn't be messing with blu ray just yet.
Old 7th July 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
nucelar's Avatar
 

We switched to cheap SATA drives some months ago (replacing DVDs). It's been a massive improvement in workflow and now it's even cheaper. I also considered BD, but it's too expensive and personally I don't trust it long-term.
Old 7th July 2009
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Fred Story's Avatar
 

Interesting. We started backing up to CD-R in 1995, then DVD-R when it became affordable. We store the discs in hard cases in a climate controlled environment (with off-site copies, of course.) In almost 15 years, we've never been unable to retrieve the data off of a disc.

I've read stories, however, of hard drives being fired up after setting a few years on a shelf, and the bearings have dried out - leading to drive failure. It kind of scared me off the idea of using hard drives for long term data storage.

Several months ago we actually had a client who wanted to make revisions to a TV spot we scored and mixed over 10 years ago. They were amazed that we were able to retrieve the original project and drop in a new VO tag in a matter of minutes.

That's the kind of reliability I'm looking for. There's just SO MUCH data crammed onto a Blu-Ray disc, I wonder if the long term data integrity is going to be comparable.

So I guess for now, we continue to back up the big projects across multiple DVD-R's and call it a day.
Old 7th July 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Long term I would only trust really valuable data to DLT.

It's expensive to buy into initially but well worth it in the long run.
Old 8th July 2009
  #6
Gear Nut
 
Fred Story's Avatar
 

I'd never done any research on DLT until reading musikwerks' post. My preconception was that being tape...well, it's tape. But now I'm reading about certified 30 year life expectancy on the format. I'll be looking into it further.

Yes, it's a little more costly at the startup, but our priorities are data integrity and speed...in that order.

Thanks for the responses!
Old 8th July 2009
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
mark.james's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musikwerks View Post
Long term I would only trust really valuable data to DLT.

It's expensive to buy into initially but well worth it in the long run.
I was using DLT for a while... pulled out some tapes from 8 or 9 years ago and everything is still good. I'm looking into a SATA setup like this:

"+getMessage("iPrintVerKit")+"
Old 8th July 2009
  #8
Gear Head
 
kronos78's Avatar
Being in charge of backing up terrabytes of data for my company, I use sata raids for short term but eventually transfer it to AIT-5 tape. I've had some nasty experiences with hard drives failing and causing problems, even in redundant systems.

I think for smaller projects, Blu-Ray is a great format and I'm planning on implementing it into my own private studio for backups. Sure, it costs around $100 for 4 50GB discs, but I definitely think it's worth it.
Old 16th October 2009
  #9
I'm using both Blu-ray and HDD for redundant backups of huge audio sessions.

Just switched to BD-R from DVD-R a couple months ago, so I'm testing new turf.

Backing up to DVD-R was becoming too time consuming, leading to procrastination.

Had two large capacity Seagate HDD failures over the last year (which they replaced).

Figure if one format fails, the other can be retrieved.

Like many, we started archiving to CD-R in the mid '90s, switched to DVD-R & HDD about 5 years ago, now to BD-R (& HDD).

Cheers - JT
Old 16th October 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by musikwerks View Post
Long term I would only trust really valuable data to DLT.

It's expensive to buy into initially but well worth it in the long run.
We have had really poor results with DLTs. We moved to LTO-3 and LOT-4 and have had much better luck with longevity.

Randall
Old 16th October 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 

I want to test drive BluRay in the next year. DVD has become too small and too slow for me, and we haven't had great luck with hard disks. The show I'm doing now is going to be the first we deliver (sound and pix) on Blu-Ray instead of tape.

Philip Perkins
Old 16th October 2009
  #12
Gear Nut
Well, considering CDR, DVDR, DL DVDR, as the same-sized disc capacity goes up, reliability drastically falls down. Just as recording density means you want to keep the surface of the disc intact from scratches, it also demands a lot from your drive regarding calibration and precision. Sometimes firmware updates break compatibility with discs you've recorded on the very same drive. .. and then, for instance some of my CD-Rs have started physically disintegrating. So have some of my DVD-Rs. I fully expect the same of Blu-ray and every other 3.5" optical disc technology from here onwards.

The other thing I don't trust long-term these days is USB flash drives and other flash memory (SD cards, etc). They're great for day-to-day stuff, but I wouldn't backup or dare to archive.

Frankly, the only thing I consider of sufficient quality for backup (and not sure of time span for now), are good old hard drives. Internal 3.5", portable 2.5" USB or Fw, as long as it's a hard drive. They have come a long way in construction, storage technology, and handling tolerance. As HDDs are designed for mid to heavy use, a drive failing under light use, with careful handling, should be less explicable (and therefore, so much more likely : )

I'd address the bearings drying-out problem by spinning the drives every so often, or just literally copying everything onto a new drive once every 12 or 24 months. Given the trends in drive capacity that should require less drives over time...
Old 19th October 2009
  #13
Gear Head
 

My problem with backing up data to optical discs is the time it takes. For now use a raid 1 (2x1.5 tb) setup ( in a dlink dns-323 network hd case ). Once the drives are full one of the raid disk content is transfered to lto 3 tapes. 1 hd and the related tapes are after sent offsite.

It's a good mid-pricy solution, the chance to loose data are quite small and it's not too time consuming ( since most of the operations are automated ). It's also quite fast to retrieve data on the fly if you're well organised.

One cool geek tricks in that setup is that you can deploy linux straight on the dlink device and script backup operation.
Old 19th October 2009
  #14
Gear Addict
 
Paul Russell's Avatar
 

Optical media? no thanks.
Our DAW has AHCI Bios and two hotswap SATA 2 bays and every video edit client gets a Sata2 disc and a backup disc of their own.
Day to day backup is done onto a 1.5 terabyte Sata2 drive. The samples drive and the systems drive also have thier own Sata2 backup disc.
Dollar for Dollar, Gb for Gb, Minute for Minute, Sata 2 is the best backup medium there is right now.
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