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Source connect in post production context
Old 18th June 2009
  #1
Gear Head
 

Source connect in post production context

Hi there,

I'll have to interconnect 2 studios together for post production work on a regular basis and I'm looking into going with source connect instead of isdn or other pure voip/broadcast solution.

I'm pretty sure the audio link over ip is working well but in a post production context we will often have to record over visual to do post sync job. I was wondering if someone around has any input regarding the remote transport and sync option included in the pro version. Is it reliable ?

best
Old 20th June 2009
  #2
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pisser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank View Post
Hi there,

I'll have to interconnect 2 studios together for post production work on a regular basis and I'm looking into going with source connect instead of isdn or other pure voip/broadcast solution.

I'm pretty sure the audio link over ip is working well but in a post production context we will often have to record over visual to do post sync job. I was wondering if someone around has any input regarding the remote transport and sync option included in the pro version. Is it reliable ?

best
forget it. ISDN is the only reliable way right now. We have tried everything out there and end up going back to ISDN everytime.
Old 22nd June 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

Sorry to disagree: I have clients here in Sydney who almost every week or two are doing VO records over picture with studios in LA using source connect exclusively and they love it.

Admittidly they have a big fibre connection to the outside world, but I've used it myself over 1500k connections and apart from latency the performance was fine.
If your studio has a sizeable internet infrastructure it can be tricky to set it up (through multiple firewalls or DMZ's) but if you are like most facilities with a simple modem router and switch config you shouldnt have issues.
Old 22nd June 2009
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent_in_Sydney View Post
Sorry to disagree: I have clients here in Sydney who almost every week or two are doing VO records over picture with studios in LA using source connect exclusively and they love it.

Admittidly they have a big fibre connection to the outside world, but I've used it myself over 1500k connections and apart from latency the performance was fine.
If your studio has a sizeable internet infrastructure it can be tricky to set it up (through multiple firewalls or DMZ's) but if you are like most facilities with a simple modem router and switch config you shouldnt have issues.
Well, I think you may be the first person I have heard who is completely satisfied. The biggest issue we have had are random drop outs. Some sessions it works fine, the next day we get drop outs or aliasing every second take. I cannot afford to have clients continually ask "what happened" or "what do we do now??". We used it last week between two rooms that both had huge pipelines and ended up having to book another room an hour into the session because it would not maintain a connection. When we switched back to ISDN all was well
Old 22nd June 2009
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Hmm..I dont think we have an uber pipe connecting AUS to the Rest of the world or anything secret. Looking through the DUC there's a bunch of positive comment - some negs but generally positive:

Is Source Connect a viable tool? - Digi User Conference

Linking studios over internet - Digi User Conference

voice over sessions done remotely-percent? - Digi User Conference

Not only that, but the reason Im speaking up here is on behalf of a company that have been really responsive of feedback and developing cutting edge solutions. I guess I just respect them alot and want to speak up on their behalf, not trying to be argumentative! As I say, in my experience, I've heartily recommended them to clients in Aus and NZ and if you search their user directory you'll see a lot of folks have taken up the solution here, but I don't get calls complaining about it or hear negatives at all.
If I were having issues with their solutions, I'd turn up the latency to see if that stabilises it, double check I was running the latest version matched with the right version of PT and if all that was solid then call their suppport lines to work through it. There's no need to put up with an inferior solution that you've paid good money for - others have it sorted, Im sure Source elements can be of help troubleshooting the problems you are having.
Old 22nd June 2009
  #6
Gear Head
 

Thx guy for your responses.

It seems people are mostly satisfied with source connect for simple operation ( like sending audio from point A to point B over ip ) but when it comes to sync features between 2 locations it seems to be often flaky and not that much reliable.

I guess I will have to go for a hardware solution ( like apt )
Old 22nd June 2009
  #7
Here for the gear
I sell Source Connect to VO people, they love it.
Transport Sync works very well, but just as ANYTHING that works via IP, there can be issues. That's why they have Repair and Replace and Q-manager for SC Pro, to help mitigate those issues.
Feel free to contact me on my website if you have further questions.

George
vostudiotech.com
Old 22nd June 2009
  #8
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgun View Post
I sell Source Connect to VO people, they love it.
Transport Sync works very well, but just as ANYTHING that works via IP, there can be issues. That's why they have Repair and Replace and Q-manager for SC Pro, to help mitigate those issues.
Feel free to contact me on my website if you have further questions.

George
vostudiotech.com

Sure, the VOs love it because they dont have to go a studio, meanwhile us engineers have to deal with poor sounding rooms, cheap gear and shoddy source connect connections!
Old 22nd June 2009
  #9
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Quote:
meanwhile us engineers have to deal with poor sounding rooms, cheap gear and shoddy source connect connections!
....and creative use of gates.
Old 3rd July 2009
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent_in_Sydney View Post
Hmm..I dont think we have an uber pipe connecting AUS to the Rest of the world or anything secret. Looking through the DUC there's a bunch of positive comment - some negs but generally positive:

Is Source Connect a viable tool? - Digi User Conference

Linking studios over internet - Digi User Conference

voice over sessions done remotely-percent? - Digi User Conference

Not only that, but the reason Im speaking up here is on behalf of a company that have been really responsive of feedback and developing cutting edge solutions. I guess I just respect them alot and want to speak up on their behalf, not trying to be argumentative! As I say, in my experience, I've heartily recommended them to clients in Aus and NZ and if you search their user directory you'll see a lot of folks have taken up the solution here, but I don't get calls complaining about it or hear negatives at all.
If I were having issues with their solutions, I'd turn up the latency to see if that stabilises it, double check I was running the latest version matched with the right version of PT and if all that was solid then call their suppport lines to work through it. There's no need to put up with an inferior solution that you've paid good money for - others have it sorted, Im sure Source elements can be of help troubleshooting the problems you are having.
I have to agree Brent. These guys are great when it comes to both support and addressing concerns. It does work extremely well and sounds so much better than the ISDN codecs we're all used to.
Old 13th July 2009
  #11
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Apparently it works mch smoother on PT Le systems than HDs.!? (due to RTAS engine)
On their site there are good tips to optimize your system. I must say it runs better after all those settings are done.
Make sure you are connected to a studio with version 3. Version 2 and 3 don't work together. And 3 is more robust.

Still, I prefer ISDN. SC delay is a little bit ridiculous to make it work for something other than cold voice over recording.
Old 14th July 2009
  #12
Here for the gear
 

I've used Source Connect on a few ADR and VO sessions and I love it! There is a small learning curve to get set up, but once you get all the settings dialed in it works great. We have also used Source Connect for remote client playbacks of mix downs. Pretty solid plug in!
Old 17th July 2009
  #13
Gear Nut
 

I use SC 3 on PT8HD and do regular links to LA and London ( I am based in Cape Town, South Africa )

Took a little to get it running properly, but its been rock solid here over the last year and a bit. Even better now with restore and replace, replace the entire AAC session with the PCM data with one click.

Their support is also great!
Old 17th July 2009
  #14
Gear Addict
 

I think if you're in a situation where you're connecting with the same studio every day or every week, then its fine to use source connect because you know what to expect. In our situation, we're connecting to a lot of random studios and voiceover homes all over the country, so its hard to establish a technical relationship with a studio you know you can trust.
Old 17th July 2009
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundguydave View Post
I think if you're in a situation where you're connecting with the same studio every day or every week, then its fine to use source connect because you know what to expect. In our situation, we're connecting to a lot of random studios and voiceover homes all over the country, so its hard to establish a technical relationship with a studio you know you can trust.
That's a good point. With APT/Zephyr you needn't worry about whether the remote studio has its systems and networks optimized. Everyone's configuration is basically the same.
Old 18th July 2009
  #16
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As long as your box can do mono, mpeg2, 128k , you'll be sweet. heh
Old 21st April 2011
  #17
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BUMP!

Have clients who insist on using source connect "because my composer uses it already with studios around the world and loves it", but I'm trying to explain that wanting to WATCH something (ie: they want to do a mix approval)... fugheddaboutit.


Anyone (and those with a high-tier dedicated internet pipeline need not apply, haha) have any success of any sort with that?

I've even had people try to talk me into using Skype video chat and pointing the camera at the screen and patching in audio.

My answer so far has always been: get online and book a flight.

Jeff
Old 22nd April 2011
  #18
Source Connect is very easy to setup ALMOST correctly which will make it ALMOST work... just enough to connect and be crappy and make everyone miserable.
BUT... if both studios have their *stuff* together to make it work properly, it is a very good solution, especially when it costs basically 0$ an hour vs. redic per minute charges for ISDN.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfriah View Post
I've even had people try to talk me into using Skype video chat and pointing the camera at the screen and patching in audio.
What we do for clients that can't be present in the studio (especially for long form narration direction) is. We patch the blackmagic's video output to a DV box and send the picture and audio via SKYPE. It works wonderfully.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
That's a great solution re the Blackmagic.. must try that.
Another that I've experienced is using Cinesync.. Allows for a lot of collaborative stuff, though still not fully complete.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #21
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Mundox, elaborate more? How are you patching video? I have tried to "show screen" etc and it is horrifically fragmented/stuttery for any video.

Curious, but my experiences are that the clients are wanting to hear "the mix" for comments/notes... They don't understand the technology issues, they just have a dollar (and, amusingly, that singular is close) figure in mind obviously because they don't want ISDN, they don't want plane fare, they have used SC for purely listening to things in the past for delivery and music cues, but expect to be able to do a full mix and don't understand why I am trying to say it can't work.

I like Skype for the "hey is this what you are thinking/do you like the read/style?" types of things though.

Not for a final. I am just asking the questions to see...


Jeff
Old 23rd April 2011
  #22
Gear Head
 

That is a great solution using skype especially with its more universal availabilty. I am going to set this up on my system.

The only thing about using skype is that its mono, you are bound to its audio and video quality and you also have to stream the video constantly which waists a lot of bandwidth.

If the session requires higher audio/video quality source connect is a great solution. source connect is more expensive and more complicated (but not as expensive or complicated as ISDN and SMPTE). However, if you use source connect along with remote desktop you can effectively setup your clients system for them. they don't need to have any technical skills. Deliver a session file that is setup with picture and source connect via remote desktop, launch the session, connect and run their system for them. By using source connect's transport sync it will allow you to use your bandwidth for the audio which is changing and not waste it on bad stream quality video wich is the same every playback. Besides using a high rez codec, your audio will sound better because it won't have the video stream interfearing with it and causing drop outs. even better your client can have a nice high rez HD video for play back because its local on their system.
Old 24th April 2011
  #23
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Hi Guys,

Great thread! I consider myself lucky to have come across it. Hat's off to soundguydave who nailed it on the head about all the crappy audio out there from wannabe VO talent; I can happily say I'm not one of them.

I'm looking for some advice, guys. I've been mandated to research a Source Connect solution for my client and myself. There's been a few comments here about the (VO-to-picture) method working well if both users have their *stuff* together, which is the case here. Big pipe on the client side, I've got a meg up and 10 down from my ISP which I can upgrade if need be. Both sides would work together to make the solution work.

I'm all in as this will negate a daily 30 minute commute +parking fees....you name it. The costs to facilitate the contract are outta sight. Client is skeptical (as most corporations are) but have the gear and the right people in place to test it and roll it out.

I don't run PT - use AA3. All I've ever done is cold VO editing and the odd basic mix, so PT was overkill for my work flow. No worries, I will upgrade if need be and have a great resource client side to walk me through the basics. What I need to know is:

1) Can this be done using AA3? (No harm in asking...)
2) Thoughts on minimum bandwidth?
3) Common pitfalls during setup?
4) Has anyone tried the latency tweaking mentioned here?
5) Do I have to upgrade to SC Pro, or can I get away with the Standard version I have now?

My thinking is, the smoother I can make the testing go, the more likely the client will bite. This is why I'm doing my homework first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

TS

Last edited by toddschick; 24th April 2011 at 04:58 PM.. Reason: Had to finish post
Old 25th April 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddschick View Post
Hi Guys,

Great thread! I consider myself lucky to have come across it. Hat's off to soundguydave who nailed it on the head about all the crappy audio out there from wannabe VO talent; I can happily say I'm not one of them.

I'm looking for some advice, guys. I've been mandated to research a Source Connect solution for my client and myself. There's been a few comments here about the (VO-to-picture) method working well if both users have their *stuff* together, which is the case here. Big pipe on the client side, I've got a meg up and 10 down from my ISP which I can upgrade if need be. Both sides would work together to make the solution work.

I'm all in as this will negate a daily 30 minute commute +parking fees....you name it. The costs to facilitate the contract are outta sight. Client is skeptical (as most corporations are) but have the gear and the right people in place to test it and roll it out.

I don't run PT - use AA3. All I've ever done is cold VO editing and the odd basic mix, so PT was overkill for my work flow. No worries, I will upgrade if need be and have a great resource client side to walk me through the basics. What I need to know is:

1) Can this be done using AA3? (No harm in asking...)
2) Thoughts on minimum bandwidth?
3) Common pitfalls during setup?
4) Has anyone tried the latency tweaking mentioned here?
5) Do I have to upgrade to SC Pro, or can I get away with the Standard version I have now?

My thinking is, the smoother I can make the testing go, the more likely the client will bite. This is why I'm doing my homework first.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

TS
2) Source Elements / Source-Connect Network Requirements
Old 25th April 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mix-er View Post
The only thing about using skype is that its mono, you are bound to its audio and video quality and you also have to stream the video constantly which waists a lot of bandwidth.
Aha! I was WAITING for someone to point that out. Yep, that's my big beef: mono audio.

Jeff
Old 26th April 2011
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfriah View Post
Mundox, elaborate more? How are you patching video?
Decklink has a composite out for the video within PT.
Patch this to the input of a FW DV box like Canopus. Then in SKYPE choose the Canopus as the video input device.
Now you are sending your vision from PT through to SKYPE.
Patch the audio with the lightpipe and you're set for a remotely directed narration recording session.
It wouldn't work for ADR though.
Old 26th April 2011
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mix-er View Post
The only thing about using skype is that its mono

Yes, and in a selective manner. i.e it only sees the Left side (or Right?) of the stereo signal and not the sum. tutt
Old 26th April 2011
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Yes, and in a selective manner. i.e it only sees the Left side (or Right?) of the stereo signal and not the sum. tutt
Aha! I was WAITING for someone to point that out. Yep, that's my big beef: mono audio that sometimes sounds like our old CBC broadcast network up here.

I remember working on a series and watched an episode and a van pass-by went away 'really quickly' and I said "that makes all the sense in the world based on other things I've heard there..."

Anyway, glad that "it sounds the best you'll ever hear it during the mix"


Jeff


p.s. thanks for the notes, mundox. That's great! I'm just missing some of that gear but good to know.
Old 26th April 2011
  #29
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Anyone able to help with a test connect?

I'd like to try out the 15-day trial; anyone have time over the next couple days to try to do a connect with me? I'd send off a short video clip to use in order to have video on both ends.



Jeff
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