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The Salary Thread Modular Synthesizers
Old 5th January 2009
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
Started at $6 an hour as a assistant tech.
That's crazy!
Good thing that got you somewhere.
Old 5th January 2009
  #62
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Which Union are people involved in in this line of work?
I've heard different answers from people, but, since they aren't in LA (my favorite city) I think they don't know what they are talking about.
Old 5th January 2009
  #63
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Which Union are people involved in in this line of work?
I've heard different answers from people, but, since they aren't in LA (my favorite city) I think they don't know what they are talking about.
Local 700.

editorsguild.com
Old 5th January 2009
  #64
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Sorry if this question seams a bit of topic and long winded but i was wondering what everyone thinks about the kind of shop you work at Vs. your success. I work for a small busy post house in burbank. three months into it and a few years into my career Im cutting BGs and other things for independent features. But i often wonder if i would have benefitted more at this stage in my career from taking a position with a larger company, waiting my turn doing the day to day vault thing (or whatever it my be), then learning from guys with 15 years under their belts.

again, sorry if this seems way off topic.
Old 5th January 2009
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PostKID View Post
Sorry if this question seams a bit of topic and long winded but i was wondering what everyone thinks about the kind of shop you work at Vs. your success. I work for a small busy post house in burbank. three months into it and a few years into my career Im cutting BGs and other things for independent features. But i often wonder if i would have benefitted more at this stage in my career from taking a position with a larger company, waiting my turn doing the day to day vault thing (or whatever it my be), then learning from guys with 15 years under their belts.

again, sorry if this seems way off topic.
I do work for a big studio, doing little boring stuff day after day, hoping it's gonna get me somewhere better.

Right now I'd rather work in a smaller place that would use more of my potential, cause right now I feel like any ****ing idiot could do what I do, my talent, for the most part, is left aside.

But, on the other side, in the long run I probably will have a better job then I would in a smaller place.

All those things are a big "maybe" though.
Old 5th January 2009
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
I do work for a big studio, doing little boring stuff day after day, hoping it's gonna get me somewhere better.

Right now I'd rather work in a smaller place that would use more of my potential, cause right now I feel like any ****ing idiot could do what I do, my talent, for the most part, is left aside.

But, on the other side, in the long run I probably will have a better job then I would in a smaller place.

All those things are a big "maybe" though.
Agreed. After working at a big place, small is where it's at, IMO. Although I feel like you get more variety at the big places.... they have to diversify in order to stay in business from what I've seen, so they do a lot of different things.
Old 5th January 2009
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
I do work for a big studio, doing little boring stuff day after day, hoping it's gonna get me somewhere better.

Right now I'd rather work in a smaller place that would use more of my potential, cause right now I feel like any ****ing idiot could do what I do, my talent, for the most part, is left aside.

But, on the other side, in the long run I probably will have a better job then I would in a smaller place.

All those things are a big "maybe" though.
What are the odds of you bringing in the client that utilizes your talent in the current chair you sit in?
That's one way to do it, bring in the work you want to do at the boss's price point.
Old 5th January 2009
  #68
hef
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
That's crazy!
Good thing that got you somewhere.
That's not crazy- that was the going rate in late 90's in nyc for new assistants. i was one of them. Hard work and perserverance always pays off tho. You have to make yourself a valuable asset to your studio and somebody they would not want to lose. Timing is important but you must be capable of stepping up to the plate when the time comes. I got my first opportunity to mix a tv spot with a big agency during a blizzard when the engineer couldn't make it in. After that session the producer then booked the rest of the day with me for another project.
And even though we sometimes work on projects we don't like at least we are honing and enhancing our skills while working on them. Assisting can be frustrating because you feel like you're not utilizing all your abilities. that's how i felt. but i dealt with that by mixing short films at night and on weekends while I was an assistant. some of those people I helped on their short films are now working on much larger projects. the one thing studios are usually good about is allowing young assistants being paid little money to use their studio in off hours- take advantage and develop relationships with up and coming producers/directors.
Old 6th January 2009
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
Yeah you're right, that's a good idea.
The thing is even though we all work together under the same roof I still got to fight to go higher cause there is no need for a new mixer or sound editor, there's allready a whole lot of awesome fx editors and mixers at my place, it's hard to make a place for me or the other assistants...

Anyway, I'll try to have a talk with my boss this week and see what happens.
thanks
Here you have uncovered a Truth about audio post: as you move up the food chain towards better jobs the path gets much steeper--as was said, in Hollywood there are really only about a dozen top crews doing all the big movies. The path also bifurcates--this narrowing of possibilities is why people go out of their own and start new facilities, where they can sit in the big chair because they are owners. This is a lot more possible than it was a few years ago, but it is hard to run a business from behind the board. That said, that might be a way for you to stay in the biz in the city where you live and be a mixer too. Your staff experience will help you a lot in this regard--many people starting audio businesses have no idea how real studios work and have to re-invent the wheel on everything. However, if work on the Really Big Pictures is your goal, then you'll have to follow our esteemed Mr. Henchman to LA. Those of us committed to work in the Provinces have been diversifying--doing other kinds of post, incl picture, music, location recording etc.. Many fewer people in my area are able to make a full time living doing just audio for video post than 10 yrs ago.

Philip Perkins
Old 6th January 2009
  #70
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Maybe we should all lobby our governments to keep those pesky Hollyweird soundguys out of our swimming pools then, eh?
Yeah, only local soundcrews allowed on out of state locations.
Oh, I'm all over that.
As stupid as that all sounds, it's actually likely upon mention to power.
Old 14th March 2009
  #71
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per-minute rates

I'm not sure if this totally fits this thread, but hopefully someone can help me out with this. For the composition and recording of music for an instructional video (ie. low-budget, BUT, corporate in-house) does anyone know what one would charge for 1 minute of music?

thanks
Old 14th March 2009
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripletigers View Post
I'm not sure if this totally fits this thread, but hopefully someone can help me out with this. For the composition and recording of music for an instructional video (ie. low-budget, BUT, corporate in-house) does anyone know what one would charge for 1 minute of music?

thanks
DOUBLE!
Old 14th March 2009
  #73
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My post of the week I guess, catching up on all the posts, so grab a beverage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
Agreed. After working at a big place, small is where it's at, IMO. Although I feel like you get more variety at the big places.... they have to diversify in order to stay in business from what I've seen, so they do a lot of different things.
<----moved from a big place to a small place in 2000 and was able to/had to diversify my own talent range by working in all departments, which was great-and that was the plan: become more 'rounded' with the experiences. Now I'm a mixer "on title" but on most productions I do the job of up to 4 'departments'. Pay in relation to hours of work? I'm better off now than in 2000.

And keep in mind the thread title "SALARY"---to those able to have employment and pay to equate to a comfortable year-round pay, congrats! You've found the holy grail!

(and Mark, I hear ya about the 'scale' discrepancies when you said you left Vancouver making much less than what the other poster had quoted)

Scale? In a non-union position? What's that? I tend to make above a trainee's wages when I look at most projects... nature of the beast.



Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
I'm asking cause I've been in this buisiness for two years and I love the business but I hate the job.

I'm leading toward the mix but I'm thinking about finding another carreer unless the mixer carreer got a salary that's worth it cause to me making crappy movies for a living isn't really gratifying.
thanks
As a Canadian working in the industry in our wonderful country, you're in the wrong line of work, Bub... Sorry to tell ya. Move on.

That's pretty much (one of) the only difference(s) from working where I used to be vs. where I am now (big vs. small). I went from TV work like "Stargate SG-1", "The Outer Limits" and some work on "The X-Files" to "Corner Gas", "renegadepress.com", and "How I Married My High School Crush". From feature work like "Chicken Run", "Reindeer Games", "Mission to Mars" to "Walled In", "Android Apocalypse", and "I'll be Seeing You".

Big difference in the "cache´" of my credits list but: work is work. "Helping to make" crappy shows allows me to make my mortgage payments every month, eat well, have weekends off (yes, it is true!), and take a vacation every year. So I'm ok with that.

Would I be happy to see a doubling of wages? Sure I would. Do I 'care' about not working on bigger name projects anymore? Nope. Would I like to see my facility get more recognition and, therefore, business? Sure as heck. Now if "the director of 'Surveillance'" would just get out there and start spreading the good word around about great work for (relatively) low prices, not to mention excellent tax credits...

(chuckle)



Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
the mixers who are working for scale are earning very good money if they are working regularly... and... there isn't a master list that guarantees success.
That's the factor---high rate of pay and not working...lower rate of pay and working. Are you happy making whatever at the end of a year when you fill in your tax forms or not?

And you totally have it right: if you're already working at a major place in MTL, you already know there isn't room to move up unless someone else opens up a chair for a variety of reasons. Who knows, you might be better served to move to a smaller place, move up the chain, get to where you want to be, build a client list, an opening appears at your old studio, you've kept good contacts and rapport, and go back.

Who knows.
But my experience is that if "the waiting is the hardest part" (thanks Mr. Petty), you can't afford to wait any longer. It is your life and your "x"hours per day/per year and also: your bank account and lifestyle.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hef View Post
Hard work and perserverance always pays off tho. You have to make yourself a valuable asset to your studio and somebody they would not want to lose. Timing is important but you must be capable of stepping up to the plate when the time comes.
And even though we sometimes work on projects we don't like at least we are honing and enhancing our skills while working on them. Assisting can be frustrating because you feel like you're not utilizing all your abilities. that's how i felt. but i dealt with that by mixing short films at night and on weekends while I was an assistant. some of those people I helped on their short films are now working on much larger projects. the one thing studios are usually good about is allowing young assistants being paid little money to use their studio in off hours- take advantage and develop relationships with up and coming producers/directors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Here you have uncovered a Truth about audio post: as you move up the food chain towards better jobs the path gets much steeper...if work on the Really Big Pictures is your goal, then you'll have to follow our esteemed Mr. Henchman to LA. Those of us committed to work in the Provinces have been diversifying--doing other kinds of post, incl picture, music, location recording etc.. Many fewer people in my area are able to make a full time living doing just audio for video post than 10 yrs ago.
Agreed.

Great posts, guys. I've never taken the time to visit any studios in L.A. but have a couple former co-workers who have (in an attempt to find work/make a move down there), including meeting with a couple of the names mentioned in this thread. I really SHOULD make the effort to go visit at some point, just for a point of reference. At this stage in my life and career, I know that the lifestyle I have here in the middle of this vast country (ie: 'middle of nowhere' in the industry of film) is better than it would be if I even tried to move to L.A. or a bigger centre. Without having any contacts? Not even a SPECK of a hope of even THINKING about being able to do something like that. I'd love to win an Oscar some day (I've held a sound mixing one and have jinxed myself now--just like NHL players don't go near the Campbell or Wales trophies), because I told my Mom I'd get her one. But there's no way that's going to happen in my current position. I would have stayed in Vancouver and made the West Coast trek someday.

So, what it really comes down to, and I think I can offer at least some "sage advice" after 13 years in this up here in Canada, from one Canuck to another: what is your 3yr, 5yr, endgoal plan? Then find out what moves you have to make, what people to meet, what types/sizes of things you feel you need to work on to get there. Just working away at anything without a goal in mind is just spinning. Waiting for something to happen? Buy a lottery ticket. That said, you can't simply MAKE something happen either. Just start looking ahead at your current situation and do you see yourself doing the same thing in 3 years? A year? Whatever your time frame. "Assisting" has to be done at any stage. I work with guys who are content to do nothing BUT the most basic edit jobs. There are positions (ok, "there USED to be" positions) for everyone and people usually end up finding their niche in what they like to do. Finding what you like to do and finding the pay you'd like to make-----priceless.

Now finding those people to align with who will become players in the future and remember you for your good work and good work ethic and will come to you wherever you are...that's a neat trick.

Good luck to ya, Mat.
-Jeff

(who, by the way, started at $12 CDN per hour and is "doing better" these days but can't afford my home on Lake Como quite yet so I keep at it, knowing the dream is a dream...at least I have Google Earth...mmph. But seriously, cost of living for area factored in, I can say I have year-round employment and am making "more than 20, less than 30 an hour and I'm top of my food chain in terms of the fact I'm a mixer dealing with tracks given to me and I deal with the clients" And I'm ok with that at this stage of the career. I'm currently salaried at my position and get paid when the wheels AREN'T jumping off the tracks as well; a nice position to be in. Nice to have "an office job" with the perks of playing with sound all day.)

p.s. Can I come visit someone in CA next year when it is -50 here again? Please? I'll bring Canadian beer...

Last edited by Jfriah; 14th March 2009 at 09:12 PM.. Reason: Compiled posts
Old 14th March 2009
  #74
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jimlongo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripletigers View Post
I'm not sure if this totally fits this thread, but hopefully someone can help me out with this. For the composition and recording of music for an instructional video (ie. low-budget, BUT, corporate in-house) does anyone know what one would charge for 1 minute of music?
Consider that stock music could be had for from $30 to $400.
If you could get $400 - jump at it.
Old 14th March 2009
  #75
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I worked very hard to get in front of the clients I had.( If you go to my site and hit the experience link it has a list of big names) I was lucky (luck = prep + opportunity) to have worked with big name acts, some fairly regularly, all had trust in my ability after one try, every try was based on word of mouth from past work, I never had a business card. But that was all music stuff. I studied, assisted a LOT, and worked every gig I could to get that, networked, had a plan, and had the integrity to work the plan I had including moving.
I made from next to nothing on charity gigs to plenty of money on some tours and recordings. I moved into post as a side and got a feature and LOVED it, what a challenge to bring it to "it sounds like a movie now!" status from the initial "I don't know if you can fix this, but,,,, ".
Now, I hardly work at all, I'm in a dead end town in a dying industry and I make over $20/hour USD. And I want MORE! More work and more money, got kids. I need a REAL vacation.

30 years at it.

You may think I'm a blow hard, and I probably come off as one, but, if you met me, you'd know why people let me work with them.
Old 15th March 2009
  #76
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Well, I can honestly sat, I'm loving living and working in LA.
Moreso than Vancouver.
If you want to work on "Real" stuff, and are in North-America, LA is the place to be.
Is it easy? No.
But when is anything worthwhile easy?
BTW, even at the low end, the money is still way better in LA than in Canadda.
Old 15th March 2009
  #77
Gear Addict
 

And don't forget about us over here in NYC!!!
**waves hands***
Old 16th March 2009
  #78
Someone mentioned the Editors Guild... and I'm not sure if people are aware of this but the Editor's guild does publicly post union scale wages for all post production jobs based on the type of contract.

Here's a link. They have rates for sound editors, re-recording mixers, supervisiing sound editors, picture editors, etc... Granted, there are a lot of people that make more than this and less than this...but I guess this would give someone unfamiliar with the work a good "gauge".


https://www.editorsguild.com/Wages.cfm
Old 16th March 2009
  #79
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Thank you very much!
Old 17th March 2009
  #80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad S. View Post
I think this should provide a good starting point for the minimum wages people in different crafts make.

Motion Picture Editors Guild - Wages
Sorry brad, didn't realize you had beat me to it a long time ago!!!
Old 17th March 2009
  #81
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundfx View Post
Come on, this is what everyone wants to know.

I expect almost no one to subscribe here honestly besides the anonymous, but I know that MANY have a HUGE curiosity as to what others make. Would LOVE to see the salary spectrum. This is not meant to be a dick-swinging contest, but just a range of what mixers make, so there's no need to be specific. I, for one, would love to know broadly what L.A mixers make versus me here in the Southeast.

My question is how much the average mixer/engineer makes, of course, depending on their exact line of work. And of course, this varies considerably. And I only expect those with anonymous names to reply, but I hope that you big-time movie mixers with the big salaries would at least provide a RANGE so we can see what the rest of us might aspire to. And perhaps the rest can provide just a range of money. Studio owners can chime in if they wish, but they're range likely trumps the average mixer tenfold. I'm interested in a broad range for the average mixer/sound designer and freelancer. I have an idea what we all should make and want to see what the real average is for us all.
Maybe you should have asked about yearly salaries. day and hourly rates really dont give the full story. And for what its worth...you may be very surprise about how much (per year) MOST engineers make. Especially when compared to the amount of cash generated by the projects they work on.

But I seriously doubt you will get any straight forward answers on TRUE salaries. I was shocked to learn that I was making way more than a few engineers that work on major label projects on a regular basis.
Old 17th March 2009
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
Maybe you should have asked about yearly salaries. day and hourly rates really dont give the full story. And for what its worth...you may be very surprise about how much (per year) MOST engineers make. Especially when compared to the amount of cash generated by the projects they work on.

But I seriously doubt you will get any straight forward answers on TRUE salaries. I was shocked to learn that I was making way more than a few engineers that work on major label projects on a regular basis.
I don't know anyone on a salary and I'm not going to tell you how much I personally make, but you can get a basic idea of the range of SoCal mixer incomes if you do a little math.

The minimum scale for a union mixer is about $65/hr with a nine hour daily guarantee. That works out to about $3,000 a week. A fairly successful mixer will probably work somewhere around 30 or so weeks a year, more in some years less in others, so that works out to about $90,000 a year for the lower paid guys. Double scale is a pretty common rate for the name guys, although there is a lot of downward pressure due to shrinking budgets, so most mixers are discounting their rates fairly often depending on the budget and how much work there is at any given time. The top guys are probably close to $250/hr, though it's confidential info, so that's just a guess. I'm pretty sure that their rates also fluctuate these days.

One caveat. Whatever a mixer generally makes during average years, they would be very foolish to live as though that is their actual income. If you are living close to the limit and getting into debt based on what you make on average, eventually you are going to get burned. Employment is unpredictable and you can go from working solid for months on projects with healthy budgets to being out of work for 3 or 4 months without warning. You can't count on any project actually coming through until you actually start working on it so it's very difficult to plan ahead.
Old 17th March 2009
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
I don't know anyone on a salary and I'm not going to tell you how much I personally make, but you can get a basic idea of the range of SoCal mixer incomes if you do a little math.

The minimum scale for a union mixer is about $65/hr with a nine hour daily guarantee. That works out to about $3,000 a week. A fairly successful mixer will probably work somewhere around 30 or so weeks a year, more in some years less in others, so that works out to about $90,000 a year for the lower paid guys. Double scale is a pretty common rate for the name guys, although there is a lot of downward pressure due to shrinking budgets, so most mixers are discounting their rates fairly often depending on the budget and how much work there is at any given time. The top guys are probably close to $250/hr, though it's confidential info, so that's just a guess. I'm pretty sure that their rates also fluctuate these days.

One caveat. Whatever a mixer generally makes during average years, they would be very foolish to live as though that is their actual income. If you are living close to the limit and getting into debt based on what you make on average, eventually you are going to get burned. Employment is unpredictable and you can go from working solid for months on projects with healthy budgets to being out of work for 3 or 4 months without warning. You can't count on any project actually coming through until you actually start working on it so it's very difficult to plan ahead.
This is very true. When one is starting out one has to do a lot of "overhead management" to stay available for when jobs pop up at the last moment--that's how you move up. But one also has to continue to carefully manage overhead for the reasons stated above--you are still a freelancer, and being conservative about what money you make will help insure that you can weather slow periods (it happens to everyone) and stay in the game. I know some people on the production side who, having worked closely w/ movie stars, tried to live (and drive) like they were one too.
And now they are in big trouble.

Philip Perkins
Old 17th March 2009
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukmusic View Post
Maybe you should have asked about yearly salaries. day and hourly rates really dont give the full story. .
Yes, this is why I said it all comes down to looking back at a year's tax return; someone can make a big chunk and then not work for months. Someone can make less and work year-round (but where's the fun in that?!) and make the same or more.

All relative and "it ain't what ya make, it's what ya hang on to".

(you can tell I don't make a lot, hahahaha)



-Jeff
Old 17th March 2009
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
I don't know anyone on a salary and I'm not going to tell you how much I personally make, but you can get a basic idea of the range of SoCal mixer incomes if you do a little math.

The minimum scale for a union mixer is about $65/hr with a nine hour daily guarantee. That works out to about $3,000 a week. A fairly successful mixer will probably work somewhere around 30 or so weeks a year, more in some years less in others, so that works out to about $90,000 a year for the lower paid guys. Double scale is a pretty common rate for the name guys, although there is a lot of downward pressure due to shrinking budgets, so most mixers are discounting their rates fairly often depending on the budget and how much work there is at any given time. The top guys are probably close to $250/hr, though it's confidential info, so that's just a guess. I'm pretty sure that their rates also fluctuate these days.

One caveat. Whatever a mixer generally makes during average years, they would be very foolish to live as though that is their actual income. If you are living close to the limit and getting into debt based on what you make on average, eventually you are going to get burned. Employment is unpredictable and you can go from working solid for months on projects with healthy budgets to being out of work for 3 or 4 months without warning. You can't count on any project actually coming through until you actually start working on it so it's very difficult to plan ahead.
Great post Gary and a good thing for everyone to remember. NEVER live above your means and save for those slow periods.

On the non-union side, people working in commercials, promos, trailers at the larger facilities sometimes are on salary, sometimes on hourly.

I've seen salaries range from $35,000 to $120,000 per year. If you are lucky an IRA and Medical benefits (usually basic HMO). No overtime pay, and you can count on overtime in the commercial/trailer/promo world. Salaried jobs seem to be going the way of the dinosaur, though there are a few still lingering.

Staff hourly rates can go from $10. for entry level to $60. for experienced creative and fast problem solvers. Hourly jobs many times are not full time employment. You get paid when you work. Overtime is usually after either 8 or 10 hours.

Freelancers I've seen going for everything from $10. to $100. per hour. You run the gamut in this business.

Then there are the craigslisters...we all know how that works.
Old 17th March 2009
  #86
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Rick, how does "Studio Center" affect your biz or, have they been nullified already. I know they don't pay enough.
Old 17th March 2009
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Rick, how does "Studio Center" affect your biz or, have they been nullified already. I know they don't pay enough.
I don't know what Studio Center is.
Old 18th March 2009
  #88
Old 18th March 2009
  #89
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by memphisindie View Post
Rick, how does "Studio Center" affect your biz or, have they been nullified already. I know they don't pay enough.
well, if they're not paying enough, I doubt they get the "top" profeessionals to work for them, that they talk about on their website.
Old 18th March 2009
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RecRoom View Post
I checked out their website. Looks sort of like those new sweatshop ad agencies. Advertising templates for realtors, law firms, restaurants, etc. There are a number of them now trying to position themselves as top dog in the low budget ad market. They have cubicles with FCP and ProTools LE systems and just knock 'em out. Interesting concept and probably profitable if you are into that sort of thing.

They now have those voice over audition sites where you can post a script and get mp3 submissions from VO artists all over the world. You negotiate or bid on the one you pick.
Sort of an e-bay for VO people.

They have not really had any effect on this little niche that I'm in.
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