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Paramount to Close Scoring Stage Studio M Consoles
Old 15th August 2008
  #1
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minister's Avatar
Paramount to Close Scoring Stage Studio M

The Los Angeles Independent - Serving Hollywood and West Hollywood

This is not good news. It really saddens me when these beautiful big rooms close. They will NEVER be replaced. But so it goes.....

it was also closed for a time in 2006

FMS: Feature [Paramount's Stage M Closes – by Jon Burlingame]

I guess we have Altiverb Fox & Todd AO, but they are not the real thing.

And for you young turks, no, a "scoring stage" is not where you pick up chicks.
Old 15th August 2008
  #2
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Holy Necro-post Tom....


What about Universal's Scoring Stage.... I guess they need another dub stage....

when TODD shut down the Radford stage it was a real bummer, but Paramount classically mismanages nearly all of its properties...

FOX and Sony are still in good shape and WB's stage is excellent as well- and of course there is Skywalker....
Old 15th August 2008
  #3
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minister's Avatar
Yeah,...necrotic is right. I don't know anything more than the article and someone who just recorded a string date there. We'll see if there is a post-mortem.

It is MASSIVELY expensive to do an Orchestra date, and more and more people are going to Eatern Europe to record their scores.

I don't know about Universal....

I am glad that FOX and Waner and Sony and Skywalker are still around.
Old 15th August 2008
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
Yeah,...necrotic is right. I don't know anything more than the article and someone who just recorded a string date there. We'll see if there is a post-mortem.

It is MASSIVELY expensive to do an Orchestra date, and more and more people are going to Eatern Europe to record their scores.

I don't know about Universal....

I am glad that FOX and Waner and Sony and Skywalker are still around.
Skywalker doesn't get used for scoring as much as the staff would like--it is too expensive to have that many players drive that far from the city etc. in addition to Skywalker's fees. I just worked on a film where the composer went to Eastern Europe and brought back a full up end-to-end big orchestral score for a smallish (but 87 min long) project. Recording in the US (he likes Skywalker)....no way.

Philip Perkins
Old 15th August 2008
  #5
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MixinMonkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Skywalker doesn't get used for scoring as much as the staff would like--it is too expensive to have that many players drive that far from the city etc. in addition to Skywalker's fees. I just worked on a film where the composer went to Eastern Europe and brought back a full up end-to-end big orchestral score for a smallish (but 87 min long) project. Recording in the US (he likes Skywalker)....no way.

Philip Perkins
Yes! I've been seeing this as well, it's definitely been changing.
The Czech Republic work for much less, and their orchestral musicians are fantastic.
Old 15th August 2008
  #6
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixinMonkey View Post
Yes! I've been seeing this as well, it's definitely been changing.
The Czech Republic work for much less, and their orchestral musicians are fantastic.
absolutely. The halls are more classically designed concert halls though, not scoring stages. But the musicianship is as good as anywhere....
Old 15th August 2008
  #7
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This stinks. All the great rooms in Los Angeles are slowly going away. They should at least turn them into historic landmarks instead of turning them into more office spaces. tutt
Old 15th August 2008
  #8
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by santacore View Post
This stinks. All the great rooms in Los Angeles are slowly going away. They should at least turn them into historic landmarks instead of turning them into more office spaces. tutt
the scoring stages are generally on the lots... It is not like what is happening at Capital Records. FOX and Sony are the two favs here in Los Angeles, (and have been even before those other stages were decommisioned)- and they are constantly booked, so I can say with a little bit of confidence that they are going to be around for a while....
Old 15th August 2008
  #9
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minister's Avatar
It looks like Capitol is safe for now....

But the construction is still up in the air. Or should I say under ground......
Old 15th August 2008
  #10
Man that's a shame. The eastern European musicians are great though. I did a project where the score was done by the Prague orchestra and it was awesome.
Old 15th August 2008
  #11
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I hated prague

loathed prague with a vengeance here. Mostly because of the room I ended up with (Smecky) which is a pisspoor attempt at a scoring stage. Found Bratislava and the radio studio there much better. Musicians are good but the reading isn't so versatile and the stage discipline isn't so good (lots of noises, intonation can be a little funky at times). If the music is decently orchestrated and not too insane then they'll handle it well though they could be overwhelemed: listen to Elliot Goldenthal's "toccata and dreamscapes" from 'final fantasy'...no ways could you get that in Eastern Europe without a LOT of rehearsal. The front desks of the strings could do it, but not some of the extremities, and the brass...no ways.

Shame about M if it goes down again, after Radford going (which was an awesome room...screw you dfegad CBS for wanting more lame reality TV)

Though anybody who'd like to claim that the standard of musicianship is just as good as london or LA...the horns in London are second to none, and various particular sections on certain days in LA will smoke just about anything, particularly trumpets. Never heard anything close on brass or winds that touched the A team in London in no.1 at Abbey, IMHO.
Old 15th August 2008
  #12
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Stage M

Yep, Stage M closed a couple of years ago for a short while, then Oceanway's Allen Sides took it over. I figured he could make a go of it. I hadn't heard that it was closing so soon. Sad thing.

Capitol Studios just lost the battle with the city and some developer over saving their live chambers to the construction of more condos in Hollywood. Just what we need. Less good audio and more traffic in an already congested area.

I just worked on a date recently with the Prague orchestra. They did very well on legato passages. We had some real problems with precision rapid temp passages though and forget about making changes on the fly as you can do in L.A. or London. Just didn't happen quickly. It's unfortunate, but in the cost savings vs quality battle, cost is winning the battle more often than not.
Old 15th August 2008
  #13
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robmix's Avatar
I've had mixed results with orchestras in Eastern Europe, certainly as has been mentioned if the part is not to challenging it'll work out. I worked with the Radio Orchestra in Warsaw, Poland and they were very professional. They took to changes I made on the stage very well, intonation was on, and extraneous noise was kept to a minimum.

I'll miss Studio M though, my first production with a big section was recorded there . . . . .
Old 16th August 2008
  #14
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drBill's Avatar
The overall musicianship in LA or London can't be matched anywhere. Seattle is very good if you get the right musicians, but......

Eastern Europe has a long way to go. Still if I was the prez of Local47, I'd be worried and start making changes. Of course THEY never will. At least not until 20 years AFTER there are no more professional musicians in LA......

In LA you can pretty much write anything and expect that the orchestra can play it if the contractor knows the constraints in advance.
Old 16th October 2008
  #15
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 

Video of the demolition of Stage M taken October 10th, 2008.

Removed on request.
Old 26th April 2010
  #16
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Talking

Hi guys, I know this is an old thread. I ran across it on a google search for scoring stages. I hate the fact that those stages were closed. Sometimes, when I think Of Todd AO Scoring stage and Paramount, I feel like crying. Charles Maynes brought up Universal's stage is also gone. Didn't Disney used to have a scoring stage too? I'm a fan of the "golden studio era", when every studio had a scoring stage. If a studio has dubbing stages and editing rooms, you need a scoring stage..... it's a set.
Old 26th April 2010
  #17
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charles maynes's Avatar
 

Sony, FOX and Warner Brothers all have very busy, and very excellent scoring stages. No need to weep to much with that- they are solidly viable as well.
Old 26th April 2010
  #18
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You're right Charles, just sentimental thinking of all the great scores recorded on those stages.
Old 26th April 2010
  #19
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gsilbers's Avatar
 

there is a new one being built for the remote control guys / hans zimmer in santa monica. but its smaller stage i think.
Old 26th April 2010
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
...when TODD shut down the Radford stage it was a real bummer, but Paramount classically mismanages nearly all of its properties...
LOL! I thought I was the only one with that idea of paramount. They built a beautiful Dub stage and I was hired to work on it. I got Marty Cohen into the room and was lucky enough to impressed him with a mix. The next day I got screamed at by my exec for inviting him up to the stage. "That is MY JOB, NOT YOURS!", is what my exec told me.

The next day, having heard the tongue lashing I had gotten, Marty came up to my stage and told me he never would have come had my boss asked him to. HAHA

The room is empty 95% of the time now and I'll be damned if there is even a picture of it anywhere on the internet.

They also completely closed their wardrobe and camera departments. That's what you get when you have a 3:1 Accountant to Executive ratio.
Old 26th April 2010
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Andy View Post
LOL! I thought I was the only one with that idea of paramount. They built a beautiful Dub stage and I was hired to work on it. I got Marty Cohen into the room and was lucky enough to impressed him with a mix. The next day I got screamed at by my exec for inviting him up to the stage. "That is MY JOB, NOT YOURS!", is what my exec told me.

The next day, having heard the tongue lashing I had gotten, Marty came up to my stage and told me he never would have come had my boss asked him to. HAHA

The room is empty 95% of the time now and I'll be damned if there is even a picture of it anywhere on the internet.

They also completely closed their wardrobe and camera departments. That's what you get when you have a 3:1 Accountant to Executive ratio.
The day of the bean counters is definitely with us today. More and more recording studios/scoring stages on both coasts are closing because the bean counters say they can make more money by selling the property or using if for other purposes.

It is too bad but I am afraid we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. The company that does the James Bond series has just stopped production on the latest James Bond because they are unsure of the fiscal health of the MGM. (New Bond Movie Delayed Indefinitely - Inside Movies) The James Bond series is one of the longest running movie franchises around and the last two pictures both made a lot of money but if if the production company is unsure of the future of the movie studio they call home NOW is probably not a good time to start into an expensive production.

I have two former students that studied composition and scoring in Southern California and both of them spent a lot of time in the big scoring stages around Los Angeles and are both very upset at the current "lets close the scoring stages and use the space for something else" mentality that seems to be rampant in the movie industry right now. They also question how much longer before all scoring is moved off shore to places where the production companies can get wholesale rates on getting things recorded.

I personally think that anyone who is trying to make a living in Pro Audio needs to stop and think about where everything is going and what they will be doing in 3 to 5 years. The outlook for audio professionals is not good and is actually getting worse. With more and more "audio schools" turning out more and more graduates with fewer and fewer places for them to work the chances of anyone of them getting a good job are slim and these people are willing to work for next to nothing just to have something to put on their resumes. The net result is that they will work for basically minimum wage and if a producer sees a way to save a lot of money by hiring one or more of these over achievers they could force people with years of experience out of a job. It is not a good scenario....

Lets hope someone wakes up and takes notice before all the large studio scoring stages are gone for good.
Old 26th April 2010
  #22
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Fajita's Avatar
Didn't The Bridge get a bunch of the Todd AO Radford gear?
Greg? Any comments? Your place looks GREAT!


Old 26th April 2010
  #23
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The Bridge is a brand new space that while not as large as Todd and Paramount, has every bit the quality. They have a lot of the gear from both of those rooms- Paramount's Console, Todd's monitor system, plates, etc...

There are still plenty of great rooms in town for doing scoring work. A couple major projects have even rented halls around town and used concert halls for scoring with equipment brought in to make it work.

--Ben
Old 26th April 2010
  #24
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carlheinz's Avatar
 

I don't know much about film scoring or the cost except Ive heard in LA..The unions are really tough.Did the unions get too expensive?Star Track doesnt pay the bills?....Did we all get replaced by robots/gigasampler? Whats going on?
Old 27th April 2010
  #25
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fajita View Post
Didn't The Bridge get a bunch of the Todd AO Radford gear?
Greg? Any comments? Your place looks GREAT!


Hey guys. Glad this thread is resurrected!

We do have a LOT of stuff from Paramount and Todd AO. We just were in the right place at the time and snatched it up! It forced us to go bigger and better than we had imagined.

We just finished refurbing the TODD AO conductor's podium, making it about half the size of the original, which was a MONSTER!. Digging through its guts, it is amazing to see how well developed and the amount of money and thought that went into the infrastructure of those great stages. Now they are going away.

I'm hoping that these moves away from large, on-studio stages will mean more work for us, after we actually open that is.

greg
Old 27th April 2010
  #26
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Fajita's Avatar
Greg, what's the target date? I mean a HARD open, not the ultra vibe soft open for all the "insiders" heh
Old 28th April 2010
  #27
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robmix's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
The day of the bean counters is definitely with us today. More and more recording studios/scoring stages on both coasts are closing because the bean counters say they can make more money by selling the property or using if for other purposes.

It is too bad but I am afraid we have only seen the tip of the iceberg. The company that does the James Bond series has just stopped production on the latest James Bond because they are unsure of the fiscal health of the MGM. (New Bond Movie Delayed Indefinitely - Inside Movies) The James Bond series is one of the longest running movie franchises around and the last two pictures both made a lot of money but if if the production company is unsure of the future of the movie studio they call home NOW is probably not a good time to start into an expensive production.

I have two former students that studied composition and scoring in Southern California and both of them spent a lot of time in the big scoring stages around Los Angeles and are both very upset at the current "lets close the scoring stages and use the space for something else" mentality that seems to be rampant in the movie industry right now. They also question how much longer before all scoring is moved off shore to places where the production companies can get wholesale rates on getting things recorded.

I personally think that anyone who is trying to make a living in Pro Audio needs to stop and think about where everything is going and what they will be doing in 3 to 5 years. The outlook for audio professionals is not good and is actually getting worse. With more and more "audio schools" turning out more and more graduates with fewer and fewer places for them to work the chances of anyone of them getting a good job are slim and these people are willing to work for next to nothing just to have something to put on their resumes. The net result is that they will work for basically minimum wage and if a producer sees a way to save a lot of money by hiring one or more of these over achievers they could force people with years of experience out of a job. It is not a good scenario....

Lets hope someone wakes up and takes notice before all the large studio scoring stages are gone for good.
Interestingly on NPR today I heard a story about an executive at Sony quoted as saying he thinks Sony should pull out of Spain completely because piracy is so rampant there. He said it in passing at a meeting, but the fact that the idea is even crossing his mind is kind of frightening. That's the reason I'm weighing my options . . . everything is pretty good now, but 5-10 years from now I'm not so sure.
Old 28th April 2010
  #28
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Andy View Post
They built a beautiful Dub stage and I was hired to work on it.

The room is empty 95% of the time now and I'll be damned if there is even a picture of it anywhere on the internet.

I didn't think they had any stages besides stage 8, the smallish control 24 stage.
http://www.paramountstudios.com/post...ix-room-8.html
Old 6th May 2010
  #29
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eoats's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Skywalker doesn't get used for scoring as much as the staff would like--it is too expensive to have that many players drive that far from the city etc. in addition to Skywalker's fees. I just worked on a film where the composer went to Eastern Europe and brought back a full up end-to-end big orchestral score for a smallish (but 87 min long) project. Recording in the US (he likes Skywalker)....no way.

Philip Perkins
Hi Phill,
Not convenience at Skywalker. On Young Indy only 1 episode scored there (and NONE of his other films ever scored here) the rest were done in Budapest & Perth.
Some hold with the rumor that the deal breaker was the musician's residuals.
Old 10th May 2010
  #30
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NetworkAudio's Avatar
I think more and more of this kind of work will go to salaried european orchestras to fill "empty seats" a la the airline industry.
The biggest problem in prague is language. In northern europe, english is spoken fluently, something you can not say about eastern or central europe.

In 2014 our new scoring stage opens here and it will be wall to wall with a 1600 seat concerthall, making seperation a non issue.
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