The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Surround monitor upgrade - options, opinions
Old 6th July 2020
  #1
Surround monitor upgrade - options, opinions

Have used Dynaudio BM5a with Dynaudio BM9s (sub) for many years, and have had much success with them. Still... I feel it may be time for an upgrade in the next 12-18 months. (provided the world doesn't completely collapse)

Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.

But... what else should I consider? I feel a portion of that price is paying for the name/logo. Are there other monitors to consider that have a higher level of detail than my current, no ear fatigue on long sessions, etc? Thoughts in general?

Also... I do an equal amount of music mixing (stereo). The room is small/mid-size (23x20x12 ish) and well treated. Currently have excellent results on REW measurements, and am translating well in theaters and on broadcast. The upgrade is more of a search for greater detail and imaging.
Old 6th July 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!
Old 6th July 2020
  #3
Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!
Didn't even realize they were in the near-field market. Only heard them in Live Sound stuff. HD-1 look interesting! (and also super expensive )
Old 6th July 2020
  #4
Ocean Way PRO2a? Anyone?
Old 6th July 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 
NReichman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.
If you spend that much, you have to compare. But I spent a couple of weeks mixing in 5.1 on 8351A's and I definitely felt like they were speakers you could mix on for twenty years. They were unforgiving in the detail they exposed in the midrange, they were even at all monitoring levels. Truly fantastic speakers. I guess the only thing to consider is whether you would want an all-analog path into the speakers. I'm not 100% sure, but I suspect that they A/D and D/A convert on the analog in. I was using the digital ins.
Old 6th July 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 
dr.sound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Meyer?

I mention this due to a recent experience I had, screening a mix I'd done in my own small room @ Skywalker's Stag Theatre. Esp. in the realm of detail, it was like X-Ray vision...nowhere to hide!!
That's what everyday is like at "The Dub Stage".
It makes you work harder because there is nowhere to hide,
but the end result is amazing!!
Meyer speakers are the best!
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else
and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.
Old 6th July 2020
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else, and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.
So what would you suggest then?
Old 7th July 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
That's what everyday is like at "The Dub Stage".
It makes you work harder because there is nowhere to hide,
but the end result is amazing!!
Meyer speakers are the best!
For a smaller nearfield I would suggest something else
and neither of them would be Genelec or Meyer Ammie's.

They'd keep you very honest, that's for sure. In the nearer field and more budg-friendly zone I see a lot of JBL series 7.
Old 8th July 2020
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 

I would recommend looking into or even giving PSI a listen, A21 or others depending on size and budget.
Old 8th July 2020
  #10
Gear Head
 
gotsoul's Avatar
 

Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank

Last edited by gotsoul; 8th July 2020 at 03:20 PM..
Old 8th July 2020
  #11
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsoul View Post
Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank
I've been mixing post on a stereo set of SCM25a and I find they have been translating very well for me, although I have been at home on a set of PMC TB2s+ since the lockdown and those don't translate as well, particularly on dialog. For me, the ATCs have been a revelation and are definitely the best speaker I've ever worked on. We demo'ed a number of speakers in the room, including JBL 708p, Genelec 8351, Neumann KH310, PMC TwoTwo.8, and the ATCs were the hands down winners.

We have plans to eventually gut and rebuild my room at the studio to a 7.1.4 Atmos/immersive room based on SCM25a LCR and SCM20ASL surrounds and heights. This setup just barely meets Dolby's DARDT recommendations for SPL given the size of the room and the monitor level. But this room would primarily be a pre-mix room for themed attractions and installations that would be finaled on-site.
Old 9th July 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Have used Dynaudio BM5a with Dynaudio BM9s (sub) for many years, and have had much success with them. Still... I feel it may be time for an upgrade in the next 12-18 months. (provided the world doesn't completely collapse)

Currently considering the Genelec 8351b and 7360a for replacement... but damn that's ($23k) expensive.... but I wouldn't be opposed to paying that if these are the last monitors I ever buy.

But... what else should I consider? I feel a portion of that price is paying for the name/logo. Are there other monitors to consider that have a higher level of detail than my current, no ear fatigue on long sessions, etc? Thoughts in general?

Also... I do an equal amount of music mixing (stereo). The room is small/mid-size (23x20x12 ish) and well treated. Currently have excellent results on REW measurements, and am translating well in theaters and on broadcast. The upgrade is more of a search for greater detail and imaging.
The Genelecs are super fine speakers.
Also to consider are PMC IB2 or Neumann KH420. All remarkable speakers.

Something like the JBL708 don't come even close.
Old 9th July 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
 

as much as i like the kh neumann's, coax speakers rule! there's not too much of a choice though...
Old 9th July 2020
  #14
Lives for gear
 

The powered JBL 708ps also have some quality control issues...

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
The Genelecs are super fine speakers.
Also to consider are PMC IB2 or Neumann KH420. All remarkable speakers.

Something like the JBL708 don't come even close.
Old 10th July 2020
  #15
Lives for gear
 
pentagon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsoul View Post
Anybody had experience with ATC in a 5.1 postproduction environment ?
Seems like they are often found in music mixing environment, I’ve found their midrange extremely accurate but curious about somebody else’s experience/opinion
Thank
I work on the score mixing side with ATC (100ASL surround) and when the mixes are played back on dub stages (Meyer Acheron or JBL theatrical ATMOS), they have translated exactly. I have friends in the commercial audio/library track side with 5 rooms of LCR ATC SCM25A plus 2x ATC SCM20ASL and those have worked out for them for years (they've done the work for many Super Bowl ads, for instance.)

However... if I was strictly in re-recording mix, I'd go with a 2-way or 2-way plus sub solution from JBL or Meyer. Compression driver horns sound different from the soft dome (though they can translate).

Last edited by pentagon; 10th July 2020 at 05:46 AM..
Old 10th July 2020
  #16
Here for the gear
 

If you want to scale down the budget but remain very close to the performance of Genelec's 8351Bs you could check out the 8341s ... 110 dB SPL should be enough ... ;-) And 38 Hz as -6 dB point.
Old 26th July 2020
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
The powered JBL 708ps also have some quality control issues...

Randall
I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?
Old 26th July 2020
  #18
I see a lot of places selling these ADAM Audio surround packages; 5 A8X or 5 S2V with subs. I've not met anyone who used ADAM in a multichannel setup though. Thoughts on ADAM for audio post?
Old 26th July 2020
  #19
Lives for gear
 
pentagon's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman
I've not met anyone who used ADAM in a multichannel setup though. Thoughts on ADAM for audio post?
That was way common for music/sound editorial at one point in LA. My theory was dealers were getting a big kickback for Adam promotions/packages. For instance, all of 2pop’s rooms at the Warner Post Pro building were Adam surround setups.
I haven’t seen anyone recently doing Adams any more. (I don’t like them)
Old 26th July 2020
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyh3dron View Post
I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?
I really really love the 708P's I have for LCR sound quality wise, but I have definitely had QC issues. Early on one of the three was distorting/chuffing with super low bass, so it was replaced. Late last year I began to have issues with my centre channel software freezing and needing a restart each morning, until it would no longer boot the software at all (and thus not pass audio). It went to the local factory twice for repairs and both times the issue persisted after it came back. I'm now using a loaner. I also had low bass distortion with one of my rear 705Ps early on and that was replaced too. These were all very early in the manufacturing though, late 2017, so maybe things have smoothed out a bit. Luckily issues have been under warranty so far but I can't say I'm not a bit rattled. TBH though I would buy them again because of how truly amazing (and cinematic) they sound, the DSP (.1 ms delays, 14 bands of EQ) and the value.
Old 27th July 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
 

We have 3 7.1 rooms that use 708p. All of the speakers have gone back for Warranty issues. Either the speaker stops passing audio or it develops pops/ticks/distortion. A few of the speakers have gone back more than once.

Randall



Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyh3dron View Post
I'm actually waiting on Harman's Tijuana factory to finally open back up so they can manufacture me a pair of 708ps... What are the quality control issues you know of?
Old 27th July 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Yow--that's really too bad. I liked the sound of the 708s a lot and they've been on my list. But continually shipping speakers back, and needing to have a lot of spares (I guess) to keep working meanwhile is a deal breaker for me.

I don't know anyone using Adam speakers for post. If anyone could comment on how well they've worked out for them I'd appreciate it. I'd be looking at a small 5.1 system. Adam doesn't seem to have their own bass management+monitor control gear, so I'd be interested in knowing what Adam 5.1+ users are using to control their systems.
Old 30th July 2020
  #23
Gear Addict
 
rcutz's Avatar
My 7.1.4 atmos ht room is all adam - except the subs. All Ax series. My room was properly build, I have good converters (ax32) and I’ve got an very experience Enginier do made my alignment for me.
My mixes translates really, really well. I also did a 2 days finals in a private studio in LA last year with meyers LCR and it just went really well.
They are quite affordable compared to Genelecs.
Sometimes i fell they are to clinical in the high frequencies.
I once got a Genelec guy here, he made a visit of courtesy, really amable, walk me trough all genelec line that would fit my room and in the end, after listen to some stuff he ask me why I would replace my speakers?
Old 2nd August 2020
  #24
Gear Addict
Not sure if you pulled the trigger on this yet, but I watched this video and I certainly would love to try these out. Unfortunately they are way outside my budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1IibuZFBzk

I'm working on a mid/small room with JBL 708p LRC and 306pmkii on LsRs and I certainly love those 708p. Haven't had an issue with mine.

And I have a smaller room where I just got the 705p and they sound incredibly close to the 708p except for some of the lower frequencies of course. But awfully similar. These speakers are by far the best I've worked on, so that can tell you the level that I'm currently at. I bet to some more experienced people, these will be the bottom entry point. But those 420 & 870s sure would be nice to try out.
Old 6th August 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
Not sure if you pulled the trigger on this yet, but I watched this video and I certainly would love to try these out. Unfortunately they are way outside my budget.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1IibuZFBzk

I'm working on a mid/small room with JBL 708p LRC and 306pmkii on LsRs and I certainly love those 708p. Haven't had an issue with mine.

And I have a smaller room where I just got the 705p and they sound incredibly close to the 708p except for some of the lower frequencies of course. But awfully similar. These speakers are by far the best I've worked on, so that can tell you the level that I'm currently at. I bet to some more experienced people, these will be the bottom entry point. But those 420 & 870s sure would be nice to try out.
we did a direct shootout between the JBP 708, the Neumann 420 and Genelec S360 a while back:
Test of new speakers for HT Atmos stage
Old 7th August 2020
  #26
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
we did a direct shootout between the JBP 708, the Neumann 420 and Genelec S360 a while back:
Test of new speakers for HT Atmos stage
That's a great post, thanks for sharing.

And I figured that the Neumann 420 or the Genelec S360 would be better speakers, but the price difference is huge between those and the 708Ps.

I was able to get 2 used 708Ps for $2400 and a third one for $1600. So basically for $4000 total (no shipping or tax) I got my LCR. And they sound terrific. I hope one day I can afford those Numann 420s with their Subwoofer.

Thank you again for the post.
Old 7th August 2020
  #27
Lives for gear
 

That’s a great deal and should serve you well. As I mentioned in the other thread, just that the others are superior doesn’t mean the JBLs suck.
Sometimes you get what you pay for though, the Neumanns are simply in another league. Sound- and price-wise.

You can make absolutely great mixes on all of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siniarch View Post
That's a great post, thanks for sharing.

And I figured that the Neumann 420 or the Genelec S360 would be better speakers, but the price difference is huge between those and the 708Ps.

I was able to get 2 used 708Ps for $2400 and a third one for $1600. So basically for $4000 total (no shipping or tax) I got my LCR. And they sound terrific. I hope one day I can afford those Numann 420s with their Subwoofer.

Thank you again for the post.
Old 11th August 2020
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
We have 3 7.1 rooms that use 708p. All of the speakers have gone back for Warranty issues. Either the speaker stops passing audio or it develops pops/ticks/distortion. A few of the speakers have gone back more than once.

Randall
Welp, my 708ps arrived today. Wish me luck with them!
Old 12th August 2020
  #29
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyh3dron View Post
Welp, my 708ps arrived today. Wish me luck with them!
Congrats. I'm sure they will be fine. Mine were used and they still sound terrific.
My 705p also sound incredibly close to the 708p with a little less bass of course.
Old 18th August 2020
  #30
Question for 708p owners in this thread, since I don't know where else to post this:

The 708p manual mentions the existence of a "FRONT PANEL LED" option in its menu.

Quote:
FRONT PANEL LED – Select “DISABLED” to defeat the illumination of the front panel LED indicators.
I don't see that in the menu of my brand new straight-from-the-factory 708p speakers.

Is there any way to disable these LEDs? Is there some firmware update available for them that I can't seem to find?
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 0 views: 1099
Avatar for Schizzo
Schizzo 12th December 2014
replies: 279 views: 48697
Avatar for anaudiopro
anaudiopro 5 days ago
replies: 394 views: 88574
Avatar for bobtheninja
bobtheninja 1 week ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump