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7.1.4 height panning without DAPS?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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7.1.4 height panning without DAPS?

Hi,
can i set up a 7.1.4 monitor bus (and speakers)and use the height panning without the Atmos production suite on the latests PT (2020)? I know it won't be atmos, but I'm thinking more for installation type works. I can't seem to find a definitive answer online.
Thanks
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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paulo m's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
Hi,
can i set up a 7.1.4 monitor bus (and speakers)and use the height panning without the Atmos production suite on the latests PT (2020)? I know it won't be atmos, but I'm thinking more for installation type works. I can't seem to find a definitive answer online.
Thanks
Of course you can. But you set a 7.1.2 bus instead. Then you just use the regular PT panner to pan on the horizontal and vertical panes. The limitation is you won´t be able to pan between the front and rear pairs of ceiling speakers. As a workaround (kind of) you can set an additional quad bus that addresses the .4 ceiling speakers, duplicating the same channels for the front height as the 7.1.2 bus. Not elegant, but it kind of works. Another alternative is to have an additional stereo bus that feeds the rear height pair. You can also consider the front and rear heights as parallels, meaning that what plays on left front, plays on left rear and the same for the right pairs. It gives you the sense od dimension, without the panning. It all works as beds obviously. Without the DAPS, forget objects.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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Led's Avatar
Thanks Paulo, yeah I mean as beds, not objects. So 7.1.2 is as high as the bussing goes..same with 5.1...only 5.1.2?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Yep, 7.1.2 is the limit... at least as far as the 3D object panner goes. You could create a dedicated 7.1 bus for the horizontal plane, plus 4 dedicated channels for height but it makes panning around the 3D space aux/send dependant and a bit of a nightmare. As far as I am aware there are no 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 busses at all in Pro Tools. You would need to use a 7.1.2 bed and disable the appropriate speakers in the object panner.

Personally, I would go the complete opposite way and stick with almost all objects, DAPS and a dedicated 7.1.4 rerender, but such is the joy of the various individual approaches to Atmos.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
Thanks Paulo, yeah I mean as beds, not objects. So 7.1.2 is as high as the bussing goes..same with 5.1...only 5.1.2?
Yes, it´s the max for the PT panner. Never tried 5.1.2....like LDS said, I´m not sure it´s an option on PT routing, although the format exists physically, for instance on small OB vans. If you´re aiming at installations, I think that a 7.1.2 bus with panning and the extra ceiling speakers wired in parallel will add the dimension, even without any DAPS or objects. But it all depends on the project of course.
I did that already and it sounded great on the studio, although it was just for fun.
I also used Nugen Halo upmix plugin with the 3D option and could address all the 4 ceiling speakers, it sounded really great.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
Yep, 7.1.2 is the limit... at least as far as the 3D object panner goes. You could create a dedicated 7.1 bus for the horizontal plane, plus 4 dedicated channels for height but it makes panning around the 3D space aux/send dependant and a bit of a nightmare. As far as I am aware there are no 5.1.2 or 5.1.4 busses at all in Pro Tools. You would need to use a 7.1.2 bed and disable the appropriate speakers in the object panner.

Personally, I would go the complete opposite way and stick with almost all objects, DAPS and a dedicated 7.1.4 rerender, but such is the joy of the various individual approaches to Atmos.
Hey LDS, we were chatting on the DUC about your search for an Icon controller...yeahhhhh..I'm on Windows (boooo) and everytime I get in touch with Dolby about any date for a win version of DAPS I just get a reply that it's not available for Win. There are ways around it like an extra quad output bus, but I would like to use some ambix recordings and need the height as part of the bus to do so with decoding.

Paulo thanks for the heads up on Nugen, sounds like fun.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
Hey LDS, we were chatting on the DUC about your search for an Icon controller...yeahhhhh..I'm on Windows (boooo) and everytime I get in touch with Dolby about any date for a win version of DAPS I just get a reply that it's not available for Win. There are ways around it like an extra quad output bus, but I would like to use some ambix recordings and need the height as part of the bus to do so with decoding.

Paulo thanks for the heads up on Nugen, sounds like fun.


Hey Andy

No PC version is one brutal limitation of DAPS! It's annoyingly also a limitation of the bussing in Pro Tools Ultimate. Reaper can deal with 7.1.4 busses somewhat smoothly.

Would working entirely in ambisonics potentially be a solution? Pro Tools supports 1OA, 2OA and 3OA channels and busses. You still won't be able to monitor directly in 7.1.4, but you could monitor in 7.1.2 within Pro Tools, output a 3OA master file, then use reaper to convert 3OA to a native 7.1.4 format to check how it plays out.

You would need something to sort the panning, reverb and decoding/encoding, but there is plenty out there. Blue Ripple Sound, Rode Soundfield, Noisemakers, Audioease, and even just the free facebook 360 suite might do the trick.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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I have Soundfield and use it a lot for ambix to surround and love it, but until we get (if ever) DAPS for Win, all the potential workflows make me want a beer and a lie down just thinking about them. Maybe 7.1.2 will be the best solution short term..
Haha FML
Thanks
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Hahaha totally! The whole FuMa/Ambix B-format thing alone drives me up the wall.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
Hahaha totally! The whole FuMa/Ambix B-format thing alone drives me up the wall.
Can I ask how/if you are using ambisonic recordings in an atmos mix..as a 7.1.2 bed, or just discarding the elevation and converting to a 7.1 bed, and replacing anything elevated with objects..? How exactly do I get a seagull carrying a stolen chip to fly over my head?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
Can I ask how/if you are using ambisonic recordings in an atmos mix..as a 7.1.2 bed, or just discarding the elevation and converting to a 7.1 bed, and replacing anything elevated with objects..? How exactly do I get a seagull carrying a stolen chip to fly over my head?

Sure. My usual approach is ambisonics for 7.1.2 backgrounds... or whatever sized backgrounds, really. It depending on the narrative. Then a mono object with a reverb send for the seagull. Often something like Stratus, as the reflections will follow the panning of the mono source through a 7.1.2 reverb.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
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Led's Avatar
Thanks!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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Plug ins that go over 7.1.2 have the extra outputs as available channel/aux inputs.
So these outputs can be routed to speakers without DAPS as well..
Stratus 3D has a 5.1.4 option as well..
But the bus size (and the bed size in DAPS) is in fact limited to 7.1.2 (or 5.1 plus objects)

Last edited by huub; 3 weeks ago at 06:24 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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paulo m's Avatar
 

Another option to DAPS will be MPEG-H. It has beds and objects and works on either Win or MAC. Sony 360 Virtual Audio is also based on it.

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/...are/mhapi.html

https://newaudiotechnology.com/produ...udio-designer/
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
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Led's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulo m View Post
Another option to DAPS will be MPEG-H. It has beds and objects and works on either Win or MAC. Sony 360 Virtual Audio is also based on it.

https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/...are/mhapi.html

https://newaudiotechnology.com/produ...udio-designer/
Hey Paulo thanks for those links, Spatial Audio Designer is a pretty nice plugin and Tom Ammermann has been really cool emailing back and forth with all my annoying questions and working out the setup for what I want to do.
Cheers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led View Post
Hey Paulo thanks for those links, Spatial Audio Designer is a pretty nice plugin and Tom Ammermann has been really cool emailing back and forth with all my annoying questions and working out the setup for what I want to do.
Cheers
Cool, hope you can do great things and have fun too!
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