The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Help me eliminate iZotope RX from my workflow! (Seriously fallen out of love...)
Old 18th April 2020
  #1
Help me eliminate iZotope RX from my workflow! (Seriously fallen out of love...)

I've been a massive fan of iZotope for a long time, but I really think they've s*** the bed in terms of value and fairness recently, especially since incorporating their innovations into your workflow (over years) is such an inconvenience.

A lot of the new features that we're forced to pay for in bundles are gimmicky (e.g. rebalance), and their upgrade pricing is insane for what you actually get. I think they've reached the point of abusing their industry standing by charging so much. I find it disrespectful.

What kills me the most though, and the reason the pricing is really such a problem for me is that every year or so they release a new product version (I'm currently on MPS2 with rx7s, oz8a, nu3a, ne3) and plugins get a new name (with the updated version number), meaning old projects won't load properly unless you have the legacy versions installed. But wait, you can't install legacy versions unless you jump through a million hoops because they won't update their installers (See Catalina support articles), because apparently that's too expensive to do (wait, isn't it just code once, replicate and deploy for each product?!), even though they charge an arm and a leg (or the case of RX Advanced, first-born child).

All I get from communicating with them about this is a vicious circle of inconveniences, disappointments, and irrational excuses and justifications. This is pain I'd really prefer to avoid.

So with that as the preamble, I'm hoping for suggestions for how can I eliminate RX 7 from my workflow. And also, who offers alternatives to the products that Advanced offers (which I'd rather pay other companies for in preference to the upgrade from Standard). Ideally, I'd like to get on board with a developer (or several) who keeps innovating and updating their products, but in a way that doesn't force me to manually export plugin settings from every project before reinstalling an OS, and doesn't insult my intelligence in terms of reasonable pricing and aggressive product push (i.e. bundling).

I do a lot of live music location recording, and a bit of studio stuff.

The things I use most (and will happily stay on v7 with in the absence of a replacement from a scrupulous developer) are:
- DeClick
- DePlosive
- DeClip
- DeNoise (though using some other stuff these days)
- Spectral Repair
- Waveform stats (clip count, LUFS, etc..)

Things I would like to use (but refuse to pay the extortionate upgrade price for - who do they think they are?! CEDAR?! Don't get me started):
- Dialogue Isolate
- DeReverb
- DeWind
- DeRustle
- future innovations without breaking old projects!....

I also use Ozone 8, but it was just good as training wheels and it's not hard to substitute components of other things into a rack and get similar results. Acon's Mastering Suite that comes free with Acoustica (for a fraction of the price of the Shyst-otope rx7a upgrade!) actually looks pretty good, UI and workflow wise. Add in Waves J37 and F6 dyn eq and job done.

Acoustica in general looks like excellent quality and value - anyone used both / able to add anything I'd miss if I switched over? And do they leave plugin names static over versions and back-compatible?

Happy to hear any and all suggestions. If I can't find effective replacements from developers I can support through innovation cycles, I'll keep using the Shysto-tope products I own, but I'm pretty keen never to give them another dollar (unless they start treating their customers with the respect that other developers do).
Old 18th April 2020
  #2
Gear Head
 
Simplicisimus's Avatar
 

You should really try Acon Digital products, their restoration plugings is on par with RX and some of them is actually better! (Deverb is miles better then RX alternative)
Plus with Acoustica I think you can do all the things you need, including Spectral editing/restoration and metering.
Old 18th April 2020
  #3
Thanks very much, yeh I've been looking at their videos all day. Super Impressive. They look like a really great company. Offering a lot in terms of quality and very reasonably priced @ $320 AUD (~$200 USD).

I think next live show capture I'm doing post on, I'll allow a bit longer and get the 30 day demo and try and use it first for all the clean-up tasks I'd normally use RX for. The only tricky thing about this is that might be a while away given the current circumstances (I.e. COVID19)

I'm keen to know who else is playing this space too. Anyone else?
Old 18th April 2020
  #4
I don't share your dislike of Izotope products. I think they make a superior product and charge accordingly. I also use ACON Digital's plugins for some of my restoration work and find their plugins are very good and very well priced. I think you should do as you suggested and download the demo to see how you like ACON's plugins and then decide what course of action to take. Best of luck!

Last edited by Thomas W. Bethe; 18th April 2020 at 02:18 PM..
Old 18th April 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 

I feel similarly. Especially about workflow and compatibility.

But no there’s no complete collection yet. But Acon with accentize gets you a bit on the way.
For Spectral editing you can use Spectrallayers from Steinberg. It may become a great tool, it is very different and in some areas pretty slick, but integration with Ara is not at all good for how I work. I had a brief exchange with the dev, and it will improve.

Acon also has the acoustica program but for me it has the same main drawback of RX, it is a external tool that is dealt with outside the daw.
Old 18th April 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 
NReichman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh_e79 View Post
every year or so they release a new product version (I'm currently on MPS2 with rx7s, oz8a, nu3a, ne3) and plugins get a new name (with the updated version number), meaning old projects won't load properly unless you have the legacy versions installed.
Yep, this drives me nuts. Old session load with Voice Denoise is a PITA to recall.

Quote:
Things I would like to use (but refuse to pay the extortionate upgrade price for - who do they think they are?! CEDAR?! Don't get me started):
- Dialogue Isolate
- DeReverb
- DeWind
- DeRustle
I was skeptical of DeWind and DeRustle when they came out, but used judiciously they're amazing. Worth spending on. And the advanced settings panel in Spectral Denoise is also worth the money.

But let us know how it goes without RX.
Old 18th April 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Jamie Mac's Avatar
I think RX advanced is great value for money and if compelling features are introduced in new versions I'll happily pay for it.
(derustle and dialogue isolate were worth it alone for me to upgrade to advanced)

You either like a product and buy it, or you don't and move on to other products. I don't really understand the rant. But of course there are tons of alternatives. They all have their unique merits, just like RX does many things others can't.

Good tools all cost money, and your best bet when it comes to restoration is to own as many as you can afford.


The legacy version incompatibility is annoying, I'll give you that.
Old 18th April 2020
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I don't share your dislike of Izotope products. I think they make a superior product and charge accordingly.
I'm not saying I dislike their product at all! They're great. They essentially put a bunch of really useful features in once place. What I'm saying is the pain they inflict on you in terms of inconvenience/wasted time when you have to either install a legacy version (really hard since they won't update their installers, and happens often since there are so many legacy versions), has outweighed the benefits, so the price isn't proportional / justifiable anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I also use ACON Digital's plugins for some of my restoration work and find their plugins are very good and very well priced. I think you should do as you suggested and download the demo to see how you like ACON's plugins and then decide what course of action to take. Best of luck!
They seem good, and if they do what they say, they certainly are very fairly priced, by contrast. Thanks, will do!
Old 19th April 2020
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by NReichman View Post
Yep, this drives me nuts. Old session load with Voice Denoise is a PITA to recall.
Totally, and they're really bad at listening to feedback. There's always some dodgy workaround or faulty justification "just export your settings from every plugin within every project before you re-install" umm, yeh, nah...), woven in between drivel about how they "fight the good fight for customers"

Quote:
Originally Posted by NReichman View Post
I was skeptical of DeWind and DeRustle when they came out, but used judiciously they're amazing. Worth spending on. And the advanced settings panel in Spectral Denoise is also worth the money.

But let us know how it goes without RX.
Ok, interesting. Hopefully a challenger develops something to compete with those soon *looking at Acon*.
Old 19th April 2020
  #10
marsh_e79

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
I feel similarly. Especially about workflow and compatibility.

But no there’s no complete collection yet. But Acon with accentize gets you a bit on the way.
Thanks for the tip re: accentize! hadn't heard of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
For Spectral editing you can use Spectrallayers from Steinberg.
I'll see if I can do the type of surgery I typically would with Acoustica first, but good to know Spectrallayers is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
Acon also has the acoustica program but for me it has the same main drawback of RX, it is a external tool that is dealt with outside the daw.
Hmm, see I don't mind launching from the DAW, doing what I need to do, then going back. RX7 is a great product, it's the company's philosophy and product/profit-centered design in preference to human-centered design (which are actually the same thing in the long run, but they haven't figured that out yet) that I have a real issue with.
Old 19th April 2020
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
The legacy version incompatibility is annoying, I'll give you that.
Exactly, that's really what the rant is about. How can they charge what they do, despite inconveniencing customers like they do. I guess I've just become really sick of re-doing tasks when I haven't had the foresight to export all settings from all projects within a period of use between OS installs. I think it's crazy (maybe even arrogant) to impose that burden on your customers.

I think the solution to my problem will be to stay on RX7 forever (or at least until they refuse to update installers for a future OS as they have recently), and fill the gaps with other little pieces, hence looking for suggestions.

Cheers.
Old 19th April 2020
  #12
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
I started with RX, and am up to RX7Advanced now. Wouldn't want to work without it!
BUT - all old versions are still available for me, none of the old ones have gone away and they all still work.
Old 19th April 2020
  #13
Ok, here's a question - maybe some perspective will be helpful. Can you guys think of any developer that is as bad as iZotope or worse in terms of back compatibility of sessions?

Waves make you pay to upgrade versions sometimes, but at least the L2 in my sessions from 15+ years ago still loads! With instruments, there can be occasional pain. NI have changed versions instruments every few years, but not really as frequently/aggressively, and I've found this less of an issue (and their pricing is better).

I can't think of any developer who inconveniences me more. Keen for thoughts.
Old 19th April 2020
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
BUT - all old versions are still available for me, none of the old ones have gone away and they all still work.
Cool. Have you reinstalled each legacy version each time you've reinstalled your OS or upgraded machine? If you're on mac and planning to use a Catalina machine at some point, that's about to get a lot harder.
Old 19th April 2020
  #15
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
I think RX advanced is great value for money and if compelling features are introduced in new versions I'll happily pay for it.
(derustle and dialogue isolate were worth it alone for me to upgrade to advanced)

You either like a product and buy it, or you don't and move on to other products. I don't really understand the rant. But of course there are tons of alternatives. They all have their unique merits, just like RX does many things others can't.

Good tools all cost money, and your best bet when it comes to restoration is to own as many as you can afford.


The legacy version incompatibility is annoying, I'll give you that.
how do you not get argument?

everything he said makes 100% sense.
Old 19th April 2020
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 View Post
how do you not get argument?

everything he said makes 100% sense.
I think it comes down to how much a person values back-compatibility (or whether / how bad they've been burned by it - yet). That seems to be why people draw the line differently. I'd put up with it if the pricing was cheap or even just reasonable, but I guess I've had enough of paying a premium to put up with rubbish.
Old 19th April 2020
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by user i477533222 View Post
how do you not get argument?

everything he said makes 100% sense.
Well, this is a forum. So the topic is up for discussion. I don’t agree, I hope that’s allowed?

Like I said, the version incompatibility is annoying. But the solution, for me, is to just keep rx6 installed. So nothing is broken, just having a lot of plugins installed is the annoyance.

I have CEDAR dns one and two, it cost multiples of rx7. And it only does maybe 5% of what rx7 does. But it does it very well.

So for me having the whole array of izotope plugins for a couple of 100 euro is value for money.
Old 19th April 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Jamie Mac's Avatar
I’m on mojave but izotope’s website has a full explanation on how to install rx6 on catalina.

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us...otope-products
Old 19th April 2020
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
I’m on mojave but izotope’s website has a full explanation on how to install rx6 on catalina.

https://support.izotope.com/hc/en-us...otope-products
Haha, oh yes. Those. Lol. I followed them a few months back when installing on my new Catalina MBP, they'll get you about one quarter of the way. The rest was a trial and error struggle with a million security pop-ups (three in a specific order, requiring specific key presses for each format, I.e. AU, VST, VST3, AAX and for each plugin), so hundreds of pop-ups. Got through with trial and error, but it was hours of work for one product. The instructions are woefully inadequate. It's their typical tokenistic effort to appear not to be doing nothing, when they should just update their installers (if they respected their customers), which I'll add they would only need to do once if they didn't change product names.

Hit me up when you're going through it, I'll try and help. Support will just point you to the instructions as they did with me.
Old 19th April 2020
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
So for me having the whole array of izotope plugins for a couple of 100 euro is value for money.
Couple of hundred Euro? We talking about the same thing? RX7 advanced is $1199 USD, which in AUD is around $1,900 given the rubbish exchange rate currently. It would cost me over $600 AUD to upgrade, which stings pretty bad in the fuller context of the service they provide.

I'd rather that money get me on a path with someone more deserving like an Acon or similar who will eventually develop all the same stuff or better. $320 AUD for Acoustica 7.2 Premium, with mastering & restoration suites and some other stuff included. HALF the upgrade to 7A.
Old 19th April 2020
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
I have CEDAR dns one and two.
Btw, what does CEDAR DNS set you back? Struggling to find a price for it.

Also, do the versions change name regularly?! :P

I already know I'd need to wait since they don't yet support Catalina. At least they're honest about it.
Old 19th April 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
 
Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh_e79 View Post
Btw, what does CEDAR DNS set you back? Struggling to find a price for it.

Also, do the versions change name regularly?! :P

I already know I'd need to wait since they don't yet support Catalina. At least they're honest about it.
Here the upgrade for RX advanced is only 399 euro. But if you catch it during a sale or black friday or something, you can score a good deal.


You would have to reach out to Cedar or a dealer for local pricing but for me it was about 2000 euro, converted to AUD is about 3500. (including vat tax)

A couple of years ago they cut the price. So before it was almost double that. And now you get DNS two included. But I never use DNS two, because it doesn't sound as good as RX, to me.

And you are getting an ancient algorithm. No innovation, no tweaks, no new features. It just is what it is.

Again, DNS ONE only does ONE of the things iZotope RX does. And it does it better. Not a night and day difference, but enough for me to warrant the price.

But there are so many useful features in RX that are exclusive to RX that I don't want to sacrifice.
Old 19th April 2020
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
Farhoof's Avatar
 

I use RX exclusively as an editting tool, never as an insert so there are not compatability issues. I'm not sure how they should manage that when updating their algorithms, would you prefer to load RX7 where RX6 was used risking a different sound?
Old 19th April 2020
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh_e79 View Post
Ok, here's a question - maybe some perspective will be helpful. Can you guys think of any developer that is as bad as iZotope or worse in terms of back compatibility of sessions?

Waves make you pay to upgrade versions sometimes, but at least the L2 in my sessions from 15+ years ago still loads! With instruments, there can be occasional pain. NI have changed versions instruments every few years, but not really as frequently/aggressively, and I've found this less of an issue (and their pricing is better).

I can't think of any developer who inconveniences me more. Keen for thoughts.
Apple. And Avid.
Old 19th April 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsh_e79 View Post
Cool. Have you reinstalled each legacy version each time you've reinstalled your OS or upgraded machine? If you're on mac and planning to use a Catalina machine at some point, that's about to get a lot harder.
Aha! I don't upgrade my OS. I use 10.12.6 Sierra, and Pro Tools 12.6 and Peak 7Pro.

I have no interest or need for the newer, buggy, and broken systems. No new Macs for me in this life! If my iMac actually dies, I have a working Mac Pro to fall back on.
Old 19th April 2020
  #26
Lives for gear
 
minister's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
I use RX exclusively as an editting tool, never as an insert so there are not compatability issues. I'm not sure how they should manage that when updating their algorithms, would you prefer to load RX7 where RX6 was used risking a different sound?
Exactly. Roundtrip with the connect plugin. The editor is far more powerful than the plugins. And you don't have issues as they improve the algorithms making your previous setting useless.
Old 19th April 2020
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
Exactly. Roundtrip with the connect plugin. The editor is far more powerful than the plugins. And you don't have issues as they improve the algorithms making your previous setting useless.
+1
And to the OP - exactly the reason I don't really consider implementing Nectar, Neuron, Ozone, RX Deesser etc. into my workflow. Too risky with the constant changes and compatibility.
Spectral Repair is a daily tool via RX-connect for me though.
Old 19th April 2020
  #28
Lives for gear
 

I know PT folks have never experienced this. But us Steinberg users can add/remove/undo/redo/update/change processing order on a processed audio event. Using RX connect brakes that workflow as that happens outside of the DAW and thus the DAW has no idea of what was changed.
Do you only ever process a audio file once? Well if you do it in several steps there’s no way to undo part of the processing on the actual clip in PT. Yes there are bad workarounds, but they aren’t that pretty.
We can and do handle audio processing flexibly this way and have it in a swift workflow. And RX connect totally Brakes that workflow by means of being a external editor.

RX is great, I use it everyday. But the less I need to use it the more efficient I get.
Old 19th April 2020
  #29
Lives for gear
I bought RX7, Ozone 9 & neutron for a killer deal on Black Friday. RX7 is really great. Love it. Ozone and Neutron are gimmicky and has a jack of all trades vibe. I have much, much better results using specialized processors from different developers than using ozone as an all in one solution. I regret the impulse buy
Old 20th April 2020
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
I'm not sure how they should manage that when updating their algorithms, would you prefer to load RX7 where RX6 was used risking a different sound?
Managed very simply with IF THEN ELSE statements.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 137 views: 45280
Avatar for cemski
cemski 22nd April 2016
replies: 38 views: 5984
Avatar for Steven1145
Steven1145 30th August 2013
replies: 217 views: 49701
Avatar for Leverson
Leverson 7th June 2014
replies: 759 views: 90355
Avatar for The Press Desk
The Press Desk 25th September 2019
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump