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AVID MTRX studio
Old 26th January 2020
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nedd View Post
With HDX 2, I would assume one could connect Avid MADI to the second HDX card.
Would then be possible to send 64 channels MADI and 64 channels Dante to the RMU?
There are delay issues with this setup. Also can you just stick a Dante card into an RMU and it’ll see it? Or won’t you have to bridge the Dante to MADI again?

Last edited by iluvcapra; 26th January 2020 at 06:11 PM..
Old 5th February 2020
  #32
jhg
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The HT RMU units are either Dante IO or MADI IO. Having multiple soundcards in one machine never seems too stable...
Old 15th June 2020
  #33
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Does anyone know if this will have the same exact conversion time as the HD I/O? Will it be perfect in use, like the HD I/O or will it suck like the rest for inserts, parallel and so on.
Old 15th June 2020
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
Does anyone know if this will have the same exact conversion time as the HD I/O? Will it be perfect in use, like the HD I/O or will it suck like the rest for inserts, parallel and so on.
It does not. It does not need to impersonate an HD I/O. It's an Avid interface with its time already part of Pro Tools. Like the full MTRX.
Old 15th June 2020
  #35
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What's the price that people are actually paying for the MTRX Studio in Los Angeles (incl. tax @ post production tax rate)? I know there's a good bit of wiggle-room on the price of the original MTRX, and wondering if the same is true of the MTRX Studio.
Old 15th June 2020
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
It does not. It does not need to impersonate an HD I/O. It's an Avid interface with its time already part of Pro Tools. Like the full MTRX.
I read that MTRX still needed some manual correcting, but that might not be true?

So, what you are saying is that I/O inserts on the MTRX Studio works perfectly in time?
Old 15th June 2020
  #37
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I have had my MTRX for a couple of years now. When it first came out, it could mimic the HD I/O, then it could mimic the HD I/O or HD MADI, and then not too long after that it had its own profile as MTRX.

The reason it could mimic (emulate) the delays of the others is because it processes much faster than the others (7 samples total delay -- samples, not ms).
The delay compensation in Pro Tools is there in any recent version -- my guess would be at least any version since the beginning of 2019. Definitely anything current.
There's kind of two factors to this: DADman emulation setting for the hardware and Pro Tools delay compensation configuration. If both were set right, then there wasn't any need for a fix for a long, long time. If the setting in DADman was wrong, then there could have been in the past. But today, the emulation option is gone (you can only chose MTRX) and it always identifies as a "MTRX" and Pro Tools reads it as such so there is no issue.
Old 15th June 2020
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexeyMohr View Post
What's the price that people are actually paying for the MTRX Studio in Los Angeles (incl. tax @ post production tax rate)? I know there's a good bit of wiggle-room on the price of the original MTRX, and wondering if the same is true of the MTRX Studio.
There's always -15% possible for pro/post buyers. And CA post tax is always the same (5% less than your local area tax.)
Old 16th June 2020
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
I have had my MTRX for a couple of years now. When it first came out, it could mimic the HD I/O, then it could mimic the HD I/O or HD MADI, and then not too long after that it had its own profile as MTRX.

The reason it could mimic (emulate) the delays of the others is because it processes much faster than the others (7 samples total delay -- samples, not ms).
The delay compensation in Pro Tools is there in any recent version -- my guess would be at least any version since the beginning of 2019. Definitely anything current.
There's kind of two factors to this: DADman emulation setting for the hardware and Pro Tools delay compensation configuration. If both were set right, then there wasn't any need for a fix for a long, long time. If the setting in DADman was wrong, then there could have been in the past. But today, the emulation option is gone (you can only chose MTRX) and it always identifies as a "MTRX" and Pro Tools reads it as such so there is no issue.
Well. I have had a MTRX Studio here at the studio today to try out. Setup with HDX card.

It does NOT compensate exactly the right values, and you are not able to put the the right ms in Hardware insert I/O to compensate.

There is no way of using the MTRX Studio like you can use the HD I/O for parallel inserts and stuff like that.

Bummer.
Old 16th June 2020
  #40
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Thats a bummer for sure. I have one inbound today. Any updates would be appreciated. Thats almost a no go if thats the case...
Old 17th June 2020
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
Well. I have had a MTRX Studio here at the studio today to try out. Setup with HDX card.

It does NOT compensate exactly the right values, and you are not able to put the the right ms in Hardware insert I/O to compensate.

There is no way of using the MTRX Studio like you can use the HD I/O for parallel inserts and stuff like that.

Bummer.
Any further info on this? So running say a HW insert for an outboard compressor in parallel with an unprocessed signal on another track doesn't sound right? Comb-filtering?

I've never played with the ms delays in my HD I/O hardware. It never sounded weird when I combined it in the mix - isn't that the job for delay compensation anyway?

I was planning on using one bank of 8 I/O for HW inserts, so if this doesn't work that way, it's concerning.
Old 17th June 2020
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostythesnowman View Post
Any further info on this? So running say a HW insert for an outboard compressor in parallel with an unprocessed signal on another track doesn't sound right? Comb-filtering?

I've never played with the ms delays in my HD I/O hardware. It never sounded weird when I combined it in the mix - isn't that the job for delay compensation anyway?

I was planning on using one bank of 8 I/O for HW inserts, so if this doesn't work that way, it's concerning.
You got all the info There is no more, unless Avid will get their act together and make a proper product or fix it in Pro Tools.

HD I/O works as it should. MTRX studio does not.
Old 17th June 2020
  #43
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I didnt have time to do the install last night. How does the unit sound otherwise?
Old 17th June 2020
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supercubziggy View Post
I didnt have time to do the install last night. How does the unit sound otherwise?
I honestly didn't listen to it. I started with the loopback test, and since it did not pass that I just put it back in the box and returned it again.
Old 19th June 2020
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rythm'BackStudio View Post
Well. I have had a MTRX Studio here at the studio today to try out. Setup with HDX card.

It does NOT compensate exactly the right values, and you are not able to put the the right ms in Hardware insert I/O to compensate.

There is no way of using the MTRX Studio like you can use the HD I/O for parallel inserts and stuff like that.

Bummer.
Here's what Jeff Komar of Avid has just posted on DUC:

"Absolutely not a problem running hardware inserts. I was just helping a customer this morning set it up. He was actually using 2 MTRX Studio units for a total of 32 channels of hardware inserts since his monitoring needs were simple - stereo mains (TRS) and a few sets of headphone mixes.

For each set of 16, patches would be created in the DADman matrix to connect AD -> DigiLink then DigiLink ->DA, in his case, those same patches are duplicated on the dual matrix represented and managed simultaneously inside of DADman.

Then in Pro Tools, you would simply create stereo or mono (or stereo with mono subpaths) for all of your Inserts on the hardware inserts tab of IO Setup. The round trip is ~ 1ms which is completely in line with the latency on the HD IO. The only difference between HD IO and MTRX Studio with this workflow is the requirement to manually populate the hardware insert delay field."

And the operation manual for the MTRX Studio even has details of the latency:

"MTRX Studio has a general system delay of 7 samples on the digital matrix and SPQ (regardless of whether or not SPQ is enabled) path
ways. The digital interfaces add one more sample of delay for a total of 8 samples of latency (166 microseconds at 48 kHz) for digital
I/O.

There is an additional delay with analog I/O—AD (analog-to-digital) and DA (digital-to-analog)—due to the conversion process. There
is approximately 650 microseconds of delay with the analog-to-digital conversion, and approximately 250 microseconds of delay with
the digital-to-analog conversion. These delays are not dependent on the sample rate. Once digitized, the signal is time stamped and buffered the same as with digital inputs."
Old 26th June 2020
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntpjl View Post
The only difference between HD IO and MTRX Studio with this workflow is the requirement to manually populate the hardware insert delay field."
Do you have to manually populate the hardware insert delay fields with the big MTRX too?
Old 27th June 2020
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
Do you have to manually populate the hardware insert delay fields with the big MTRX too?
Yes.
1.08ms is the amount if using the MTRX's own DA/AD loop at 48k. That is bang on sample accurate.

People have to realize that the routing options are massive so depending on what is chosen, that delay will change. From ProTools, it only knows that the MTRX is attached and that gives it a fixed number of i/o into and out of the MTRX. You (the user) determine what that i/o for the MTRX actually goes through within DADman. It could be an AES loop, it could be Dante to another converter and back again on one side and MADI to a different converter on the return. You can make anything parallel i/o (what Pro Tools needs for hardware inserts.) It's not basic like the other Avid interfaces with very few fixed options. The options are endless.
Old 26th July 2020
  #48
I just picked up a MTRX Studio for my home setup and am in the process of setting up DADman and Eucon while I wait on my snakes and DigiLink cables. Basically got it so I could flexibly route all my audio sources to their various intended destinations, and for the Eucon monitoring control via the PT Control app, and to route audio between my Mac and PC via Dante Virtual Soundcard. I also like that it will be able to scale up along with my setup as I expand it, the ultimate goal being a small Atmos mixing setup. What I'm wondering about if there are any other owners here or maybe the DAD staff ITT feel like responding...

Is there supposed to be an incredible amount of lag and intermittent responsiveness with the volume knob on this thing? I have it on an unmanaged switch in redundant mode, so it's using one Ethernet port for control and the other for Dante. I'm wondering if this is just one of those DAD quirks.
Old 26th July 2020
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyh3dron View Post
I just picked up a MTRX Studio for my home setup and am in the process of setting up DADman and Eucon while I wait on my snakes and DigiLink cables. Basically got it so I could flexibly route all my audio sources to their various intended destinations, and for the Eucon monitoring control via the PT Control app, and to route audio between my Mac and PC via Dante Virtual Soundcard. I also like that it will be able to scale up along with my setup as I expand it, the ultimate goal being a small Atmos mixing setup. What I'm wondering about if there are any other owners here or maybe the DAD staff ITT feel like responding...

Is there supposed to be an incredible amount of lag and intermittent responsiveness with the volume knob on this thing? I have it on an unmanaged switch in redundant mode, so it's using one Ethernet port for control and the other for Dante. I'm wondering if this is just one of those DAD quirks.
No. Zero lag.
Now have 2 MTRX Studio rooms. No Lag.
Have quite a few full MTRX rooms (still using DADman so it would be the same.) No Lag.

You do not need to have both ethernet ports plugged in. Dante and DADman control operate on the same port. Make sure you are not communicating with it via wireless (if you have wireless turned on for your computer and the switch has the wireless station plugged to it, you would have created another possible path to talk to the MTRX over wireless.) If you have wireless doing different ip addresses than wired, DADman Device List should show you which IP path you are using to talk to the MTRX Studio.

Managed vs unmanaged won't be your issue. Start with simplifying your network to see where things have gone wrong. Just MTRX studio, switch, computer. One ethernet cable from each to the switch. All other wireless/ports turned off. DVS not running. Nothing else plugged into the switch. Then start adding stuff back.
Old 26th July 2020
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
No. Zero lag.
Now have 2 MTRX Studio rooms. No Lag.
Have quite a few full MTRX rooms (still using DADman so it would be the same.) No Lag.

You do not need to have both ethernet ports plugged in. Dante and DADman control operate on the same port. Make sure you are not communicating with it via wireless (if you have wireless turned on for your computer and the switch has the wireless station plugged to it, you would have created another possible path to talk to the MTRX over wireless.) If you have wireless doing different ip addresses than wired, DADman Device List should show you which IP path you are using to talk to the MTRX Studio.

Managed vs unmanaged won't be your issue. Start with simplifying your network to see where things have gone wrong. Just MTRX studio, switch, computer. One ethernet cable from each to the switch. All other wireless/ports turned off. DVS not running. Nothing else plugged into the switch. Then start adding stuff back.
Thanks.. It actually seems like that knob lag I was experiencing fixed itself somehow, maybe some reboots and such did the trick. Weird thing was that DADman and Eucon control via the Avid Control app were both more responsive when this was happening.

Another question while I've got you: how do you deal with the lack of SPL calibration in DADman?
Old 26th July 2020
  #51
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Complain a lot to Avid and DAD.

... but seriously 85dBc = DADman 0 dbFs = REF. Room is calibrated that way.
You can implement a REF soft key (another thing complaining about to Avid) in Eucon

The mental math is pretty simple from there.
Old 28th July 2020
  #52
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Complain a lot to Avid and DAD.

... but seriously 85dBc = DADman 0 dbFs = REF. Room is calibrated that way.
You can implement a REF soft key (another thing complaining about to Avid) in Eucon

The mental math is pretty simple from there.
Thanks, I understand that the "REF" button in DADman sets a monitor fader to 0 and that 0 should be 85dB SPL. What I'm not grasping is how to adjust the levels of the monitor output channels independently pre-monitor fader while set to 0. In the DA row, my stereo monitor level adjustment is a single fader for both channels and I don't know how to split that so I can adjust levels of each of them separately. I understand that this would be a non-issue if I was using the other analog outputs since they each have their own fader though.
Old 28th July 2020
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polyh3dron View Post
What I'm not grasping is how to adjust the levels of the monitor output channels independently pre-monitor fader while set to 0. In the DA row, my stereo monitor level adjustment is a single fader for both channels and I don't know how to split that so I can adjust levels of each of them separately. I understand that this would be a non-issue if I was using the other analog outputs since they each have their own fader though.
You don't do it from the DA section.

You do it in Monitor Profile.
You can adjust every channel down to 1/100th of a decibel for the source and/or the output.
That is where you do the calibration.
(The signal whether digital or analogue is immaterial.)

I don't know how well the ProMon section of the manual is documented but that is where that information should be.
Old 28th July 2020
  #54
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
You don't do it from the DA section.

You do it in Monitor Profile.
You can adjust every channel down to 1/100th of a decibel for the source and/or the output.
That is where you do the calibration.
(The signal whether digital or analogue is immaterial.)

I don't know how well the ProMon section of the manual is documented but that is where that information should be.
Ah I get it now, thanks. Definitely not where I expected that setting to be.

Old 9th August 2020
  #55
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how does the unit sound? is it a step up from hd i/o...maybe on par with black lion audio? Was considering sending my omni to them as an experiment. Unit could solve my studio one and hdx interface issues in one box. already have focusrite dante pcie card. very curious.
Old 10th August 2020
  #56
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra View Post
There are delay issues with this setup. Also can you just stick a Dante card into an RMU and it’ll see it? Or won’t you have to bridge the Dante to MADI again?


Can you elaborate on the delay issues? I assume it is one of the reasons MADI isn't qualified for Mac?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #57
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how does it sound sound wide compare to the avid Hd I/0? Better sound and headroom?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #58
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I believe that the delay issue was covered in a different forum post. Basically, you need to set the latency and then it is good to go.

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by LDStudios View Post
Can you elaborate on the delay issues? I assume it is one of the reasons MADI isn't qualified for Mac?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #59
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
I believe that the delay issue was covered in a different forum post. Basically, you need to set the latency and then it is good to go.

Randall

Interesting! The main reason I ask is that one US reseller basically refused to sell anything that was related to a MADI-based Mac Atmos setup, citing quite explicitly that MADI with Mac had issues. It made me wonder if the setup does actually operate, or if there is a deeper reason why Dolby crossed MADI off the list as a compatible protocol with MAC.

The conversation was about Dolby Atmos Mastering Suite rather than a theatrical RMU.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #60
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Another request for how does it sound compared to Avid HD I/O? And compared to MTRX full version?
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