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Izotope Announcement
Old 1 week ago
  #31
Lives for gear
 

I just watched the first few izotope YT videos.
I wasn't super impressed to be honest.

I know automatic EQ matching is difficult when the two signals are very different in sound, and perhaps these ADR examples wasn't very representative... (It sounded boxy as miced at too large distance in a too small room so Early reflections are clearly audible.)
But clearly in these examples, to even get close, the user has to manually adjust both eq and reverb settings.


Final judgment will have to wait until I get to see more actual use cases with varied source material and test the demo, but I think I am probably faster matching "manually" in all but the most severe cases compared tio this method. Workflow looked pretty clunky too.

I can already hear the future "but I used dialog match to fix it" comments from non-mixers thus adding way to much LF to get the eq profiles closer, but when there is no LF (or HF) in the signal raising it really doesn't work.

With all the hype I was expecting more than what appears to be a "basic" EQ match function and a simplified Reverb UI. But maybe there is more that I have not yet discovered/understood.

Normally I do like most things Izotope, so I was surprised at what I felt regarding this tool. But this was my initial reaction to it. It might grow on me.
Old 1 week ago
  #32
Gear Addict
Agree. It is also a pretty hefty pricetag. It would want to be very very good to warrant that kind of price for something that we have been doing just fine without for many many years. I'll keep my opinion open until i hear more and get to test it myself.

Last edited by Garret; 1 week ago at 01:21 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #33
Gear Head
Vocalign

would this work for music post too?? I was about to buy Vocalign???
Old 1 week ago
  #34
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by UmbrellaSound View Post
would this work for music post too?? I was about to buy Vocalign???
Vocalign does time alignment, Dialogue Match does not. They are very different tools.
Old 1 week ago
  #35
Gear Head
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vytis View Post
Vocalign does time alignment, Dialogue Match does not. They are very different tools.
Thanks
Yeah does everything else other than alignment, I think they missed a trick there,
Old 1 week ago
  #36
Gear Addict
 
RecRoom's Avatar
I think it works well. Certainly not the ground breaking, game changing, (insert your over-the-top descriptor here), tool their marketing makes it out to be. I had been meaning to upgrade to RX7 anyway, so it was just an extra $100 on top of the upgrade fee to upgrade to the RX 7 Advanced Reverb bundle which includes Dialogue Match and Stratus, so it was a no brainer for me.

Just another tool in the arsenal. I don't think it will put anyone out of business.
Old 1 week ago
  #37
Lives for gear
Okay, they've released details. It looks pretty cool. There's nothing in there that wasn't around before in one way or another (though it would take some work).. but having it in one product is almost* awesome.

* It's just for ProTools, as an offline Audiosuite process. So those of us on other platforms - including a lot of Nuendos in this forum - can't try or buy it. I sent a query to iZotope this morning about other versions, but so far no answer.
Old 1 week ago
  #38
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minister's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
I just watched the first few izotope YT videos.
I wasn't super impressed to be honest.

I know automatic EQ matching is difficult when the two signals are very different in sound, and perhaps these ADR examples wasn't very representative... (It sounded boxy as miced at too large distance in a too small room so Early reflections are clearly audible.)
But clearly in these examples, to even get close, the user has to manually adjust both eq and reverb settings.
The "film" looks staged for iZotope's use. And, who records ADR with Lavs only??? There was no great need to replace the production audio -- and a decent mixer should have been able to make the close, dry sound of the middle actor sound like the others with EQ and reverb...

What does it sound like when you have a REAL need to replace ADR -- like super noisy and bumpy location audio?

But, maybe there are some tricks it can do that are really hard to achieve with our current set of tools in excellent hands. We shall see...
Old 1 week ago
  #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
The "film" looks staged for iZotope's use. And, who records ADR with Lavs only??? There was no great need to replace the production audio -- and a decent mixer should have been able to make the close, dry sound of the middle actor sound like the others with EQ and reverb...

What does it sound like when you have a REAL need to replace ADR -- like super noisy and bumpy location audio?

But, maybe there are some tricks it can do that are really hard to achieve with our current set of tools in excellent hands. We shall see...
Been using it all morning!!!
REAL ADR in reality!!!

Works pretty well on iPhone ADR
Old 1 week ago
  #40
For me, this thing is going to be awesome in the instances where the boom is great, but then all of a sudden they go wide and you're forced to switch to the lavs for a line or 2 before it's back to boom. It's taking a bit of tweaking, but the results have been pretty great so far.
Old 1 week ago
  #41
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minister's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Been using it all morning!!!
REAL ADR in reality!!!

Works pretty well on iPhone ADR
Thx Pat!
Old 1 week ago
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
The "film" looks staged for iZotope's use. And, who records ADR with Lavs only??? There was no great need to replace the production audio -- and a decent mixer should have been able to make the close, dry sound of the middle actor sound like the others with EQ and reverb...

What does it sound like when you have a REAL need to replace ADR -- like super noisy and bumpy location audio?

But, maybe there are some tricks it can do that are really hard to achieve with our current set of tools in excellent hands. We shall see...
True, but there's also ADR that replaced PERFECTLY clean audio, because the director didn't like the performance.


In any case, ozone 7 has an AMAZING eq match feature. Before that was Roger Nichols frequalizer (but company went defunct or something when 64bit came around). Adding verb to match is subjective and unless this does ALL them in "less" then half the time and in the %90 range of prod DX, I don't see it worth the price tag. Ozone 7 or 8 (I have the adv version, so not sure if the regular does this) and it does EQ match in seconds to %85-%95 of prod dx and the rest I do by ear and then add verb.

However iZotope has a an amazing record of drastically improving their products every year.
Old 1 week ago
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
True, but there's also ADR that replaced PERFECTLY clean audio, because the director didn't like the performance.


In any case, ozone 7 has an AMAZING eq match feature. Before that was Roger Nichols frequalizer (but company went defunct or something when 64bit came around). Adding verb to match is subjective and unless this does ALL them in "less" then half the time and in the %90 range of prod DX, I don't see it worth the price tag. Ozone 7 or 8 (I have the adv version, so not sure if the regular does this) and it does EQ match in seconds to %85-%95 of prod dx and the rest I do by ear and then add verb.

However iZotope has a an amazing record of drastically improving their products every year.

Ozone 9 has vastly improved match EQ
That AI is now in Dialog Match
Old 1 week ago
  #44
Gear Head
 

I tried it yesterday, I think it’s nice and a helpful tool in some situations.

Those of you who are dismissive should try it first before ruling it out in public.
Old 1 week ago
  #45
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
True, but there's also ADR that replaced PERFECTLY clean audio, because the director didn't like the performance.
True, the thing with EQ is you usually want to do that in context of what's before and after, not destructively in audio suite. Just because your ADR now matches your unwanted guide doesn't mean it will blend into your mix. And when you had a line matched before that is now replaced with ADR the processing you have on it with AAX is disregarded once you use that as a guide in AS unless you bounce that down first to bake the processing in.

Not saying it's a bad idea but it's a specialized thing that might not work universally.

Many times your mixed ADR soloed will sound terrible but in context goes unnoticed because of the complex other elements playíng around it, masking etc. Matching ADR to a guide without context if often pointless. Not always of course.

I can see why mixers will prefer real time match EQ that they can tweak in context like FF Q3.
Old 1 week ago
  #46
Lives for gear
I just heard back from iZotope about making a standard VST or desktop version for platforms other than PT.

They can't publicly commit to a schedule for a more universal version. But they are sponsoring a survey, asking what platform you'd want to use DM on. I should think this would be helpful not only for us Nuendo folks, but also those who are using other DAWs... or even use PT, but want to share the tool with other platforms they already have.

The survey appears to be by invitation. Send a note to their website that you're interested in other platforms. It'll help all of us.
Old 1 week ago
  #47
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Ozone 9 has vastly improved match EQ
That AI is now in Dialog Match
Thanks for the tip!

I was going to upgrade to Ozone 9 adv, but was told that there is a bug in mac OS 10.12 specifically with Pro Tools due to a supplemental update, as I'm on PT 2019.5 Ultimate on a Mac 5,1 running OS X 10.12.6.

Anyone else using Ozone 9 with my setup successfully?
Old 1 week ago
  #48
Lives for gear
 

Gave the demo a quick try on a few lines, following their suggestions for use.

The ambience match seems the same as RX so not that useful and production fill is still needed. So I turned that module off on all my test cues.

The reverb match is very hit or miss. I expect since this is new it will improve. It also varied between way too wet and too dry. But the adjustments are very quick and easy.

The EQ match however is very impressive. I haven't heard a better one. That alone will make this a useful tool even if I only break it out for troublesome lines. I don't love having to render but I guess since you can save a profile that helps if you need to redo.

I don't know that I'd pay the asking price for this by itself but certainly for the bundle upgrade. I think including Stratus 3D and Symphony 3D in the Post Production Suite is a killer deal if you're upgrading from an earlier version.
Old 6 days ago
  #49
Lives for gear
FWIW, best ambience match I've ever found (other than properly recorded RT, exactly matching that setup's production dialog) is manufactured: run a noise source through a convolver trained with a small clip of actual RT from between lines or between 'speed' and 'action'. Never sounds looped.

I posted a free plugin for this at my book's site a few years ago: http://greatsound.info/roomtone/index.html. It's 32-bit and I haven't upgraded -- I run it offline, now -- but full theory and source is also posted.
Old 6 days ago
  #50
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
FWIW, best ambience match I've ever found (other than properly recorded RT, exactly matching that setup's production dialog) is manufactured: run a noise source through a convolver trained with a small clip of actual RT from between lines or between 'speed' and 'action'. Never sounds looped.

I posted a free plugin for this at my book's site a few years ago: http://greatsound.info/roomtone/index.html. It's 32-bit and I haven't upgraded -- I run it offline, now -- but full theory and source is also posted.
Agreed. I do use RX ambiance match as well, but noise/IR often works better.
Old 6 days ago
  #51
Lives for gear
 

I'm mixing a ghost tv show that has a lot of pick ups that are pretty bad. so bad I originally told the show to do the pick ups again. They wouldnt and now i'm stuck with pretty bad audio. This dx match plug in isn't doing a great job. I am getting much better results.

Firstly, EQ match wont work correctly is the pitch is wrong. So we need a pitch match first in the chain.
2, I don't like the EQ as muich as EQ match in the strand alone.
3. reverd isn't very high quality or maybe just isn't matching well. I get much better results with revibe and my ear for the verb. Just not even on the same planet. DX Match is so so but revibe and a 2 sec tweak and I get pretty similar room sound.

All in all pretty unimpressed. I would have liked to have seen a plug in where you can see both the source and destination audio in a window and they are both available to be worked on. in a spectral way. You can see the harmonics like in the standalone software. You can take verb out of one side and add it to the other, you can EQ both the a and b side. what about distortion? We also need to be able to match the comp they used in the field. All in all I probably will by it and never use it.
Old 6 days ago
  #52
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Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
ReVibe and my ear for the verb.
+1, I love it for its character and authentic "dirtyness" in a nice way.
Old 6 days ago
  #53
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Mottl View Post
+1, I love it for its character and authentic "dirtyness" in a nice way.
Dirty matches dirty
Old 6 days ago
  #54
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Mundox's Avatar
I expected this thing to suck badly. It doesn't.
I first tried it with a challenging ADR match I had to do recently, where I actually had to worldize the recorded ADR to get a good result.
But this thing got me in the ballpark real fast.
And then I tried it with an ADR piece to match dry production dialog, result was ok, albeit with exaggerated verb.

I'd say in the hands of novice operators who need to match dialog, it's a brilliant solution. Definitely some tweaking required though.

However it's not something I'd probably ever use.
It's not solving any problems for me. I get better results with existing tools non-destructively.

We're getting to a point where Izotope needs to make their own DAW and get done with it.
Old 6 days ago
  #55
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Airon's Avatar
 

Editing and mixing foreign language dubs usually doesn't give me the time to do the manual matching this plugin provides. A narrow reverb usually does the trick well enough. For me it kinda depends on the experience level. The higher it is, the less they'll need to rely on a tool like Dialog Match. Still, it could work really well in EQ and ambience matching.

Since I'm not using Protools, it'll be standalone RX and noise convolving for me if need be. I'm painting things out in RX anyway, so my hope is they'll include this tool in RX Advanced at least at some point.

Anyone else think the examples they used in their videos could have been better ? I'm pretty sure I'd never match ADR or lavs to boom tracks that roomy. It would have to be a show that play out on a theater stage to have that kind of sound work well.
Old 5 days ago
  #56
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
...We're getting to a point where Izotope needs to make their own DAW and get done with it.
Um...

all they'd have to do is combine the very different approaches of PT, Nuendo, and the music composing DAWs -- all of which have users who swear by their particular DAW and also buy iZotope...

...and figure out how to pay for the development, if they lose the revenue stream from all those other-DAW users buying iZotope plugs and upgrades for their favorite platform.


Seriously, it would be a nice thing if iZo added a two track copy-and-paste editor to their desktop app. I guess. I suspect the primary market would be NLE editors, however, who feel limited trying to do dialog or music in a frame oriented world.
Old 5 days ago
  #57
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by srheiss View Post
For me, this thing is going to be awesome in the instances where the boom is great, but then all of a sudden they go wide and you're forced to switch to the lavs for a line or 2 before it's back to boom. It's taking a bit of tweaking, but the results have been pretty great so far.
Just used it for this. Saved a minute of me fiddling. Still didn't like the reverb but the EQ match is working for me.

I expected to hate this plugin especially based on their demos but I can see it being useful if I'm tight on time.
Old 5 days ago
  #58
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
Um...

all they'd have to do is combine the very different approaches of PT, Nuendo, and the music composing DAWs -- all of which have users who swear by their particular DAW and also buy iZotope...
Or they can buy Reaper and make it better.
Old 5 days ago
  #59
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
I'll refrain from judging it based on the one clip they have on the product page but I found this usage tip amusing:

"2. Avoid using noisy reference audio."
Not that it would cure it completely but I wondered if they'd include some trick like RX dialogue isolate or de-noise before the EQ matcher section. Can't really tell.

I guess you could test it by adding constant noise to a clean source (to capture) and seeing how different the profile it generates is compared to using the clean one. I probably could have done that in the time it took to write this. Oh well.
Old 4 days ago
  #60
Lives for gear
 

In the location sound match demos I was surprised at how long the process of doing the work took, and I didn't think they finished the job, really. So far this thing is in a "is the result better or different" category for me vs. what I usually do for issues like these, since those kind of matching situations are inherently so tweaky that you almost always have to work through them one at a time anyway. But Izo RX (for instance) has improved a lot in recent versions, and this is just V1 of this app. If they want it to have the level of acceptance that RX etc has they have to jailbreak it from ProTools though.
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