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How many here are using Nuendo for their work DAW?
Old 3rd December 2019
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
In LA, if you don't know Pro Tools, you don't work.
They still rule the roost!!
It's not different in Germany. If you don't know PT well as a post pro audio guy, that's career suicide.
There might be more companies that use Nuendo here, I personally don't know a lot of them to be honest though.

That being said, competition is always good, so even as someone not interested in Nuendo I hope it gets better and better.
Old 3rd December 2019
  #92
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matt82aust's Avatar
 

Those Nuage demonstration videos really look fantastic, particularly the editing side of things.
Old 4th December 2019
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt82aust View Post
Those Nuage demonstration videos really look fantastic, particularly the editing side of things.
Nuage looks great and most users who talk about it swear by it.

I sometimes feel like I'm the odd one out when people talk about editing on controllers, or show editing in demo videos - I always feel like it's significantly more cumbersome or just slower than the regular trackball and keyboard.. not that it matters what I think though.. just an observation..
Old 4th December 2019
  #94
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matt82aust's Avatar
 

I get that also.. I sometimes feel that as fast and experienced as I am cutting on Pro Tools now after 17 years of doing it, I still fondly remember cutting on an MFX3 in a fluid, seamless way.

Realistically, I would have been ludicrously slow and cumbersome back then in my school days, but its a little bug that still surfaces every now and then.
Old 4th December 2019
  #95
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The thing I like best about editing on a controller with Nuendo, is that it's totally customizable. Any command, or favorite command sequence as a macro, can be assigned to any random button on the controller or your ASCII keyboard. So you can very quickly build up muscle memory to speed up the workflow: you don't have to mouse or look at the screen for a hotspot or virtual controller; your finger just flies to it. Ditto the knobs or sliders you reach for frequently: you can assign them to any encoder on an accessory panel.

That, and of course the whole idea of mixing by moving your fingers. I can't imagine trying to handle dialog without a couple of fingers ready on upcoming channels to jump a tiny amount for syllables that need help... or mix tracks without being able fade one channel up while fading another down and trimming a third, all while listening and looking at pix. Can't figure how I'd ever do that with a mouse.
Old 4th December 2019
  #96
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I was talking strictly about editing, definitely not mixing. I don't anyone in this section who does paid work would prefer or promote mouse/keys for mixing.
Old 4th December 2019
  #97
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I was talking strictly about editing, definitely not mixing. I don't anyone in this section who does paid work would prefer or promote mouse/keys for mixing.
I mixed 32 episodes for NBC show this year using only clip gain and fade handles.... all controlled with mouse and keyboard.... but that's only possible because of how Nuendo handles clip gain and clip fades/crossfades

It was heaven.
Old 4th December 2019
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
I mixed 32 episodes for NBC show this year using only clip gain and fade handles.... all controlled with mouse and keyboard.... but that's only possible because of how Nuendo handles clip gain and clip fades/crossfades

It was heaven.
Was this a post mix or music?
Old 4th December 2019
  #99
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Was this a post mix or music?
Round table talk show
Old 4th December 2019
  #100
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Fredo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt82aust View Post
Those Nuage demonstration videos really look fantastic, particularly the editing side of things.
We have two rooms equipped with Nuage.
I can honestly say that Nuage speeds up our workflow by -at least- 20%.

Fredo
Temple Of Tune
Belgium
Old 4th December 2019
  #101
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I have used a Nuage on loan for my latest feature film mix. So I have used it fully for three weeks and I used it instead of our existing S5MC.

After three weeks I'm more efficient on the Nuage than I have ever been on the S5MC. Despite that we have owned and I have used the S5MC almost daily for ten years.

The only parts where I still fell back to mouse and keyboard was searching for sound effects and for more complex editing and clip envelopes. Most basic editing while mixing is even faster to do on the Nuage (so you stay mix-focused and don’t really have to put on the ”editing hat”).

Using Nuage and syncing the visibility in the project window has been an eye opener big time. This is actually possible without the controller just using Nuendo. But having the physical controls and the direct access and visibility of what filters are set makes it so much more immediate on the Nuage.

Brief example:
You control overall levels using groups and need to adjust the level of a dialog track, hit expand on the Dia group so now only thes dia tracks are shown on both controller and the project window. The linking between mixer and project can be enabled or disabled depending on workflow. The filter keys allow you to enable or disable if you also want to see the linked reverb and groups (and or linked inputs/outputs/VCA/midi tracks etc).
The magic to me here is the linking between what is seen on both the project screen and on the mixer and that they are the same.


The use of the nice weighted wheel to navigate/zoom/select/adjust clip level/fade/cut/trim/move stuff is highly addictive and fast. This means that you stay at the controller for more of the time, thus becoming a faster user of it in a shorter time, the need to go and grab the mouse and keyboard all the time isn't at all as frequent as I have felt using other controllers.
You have direct high visibility access to what stem you are/want to listen to through the control room.

If you have eq/sends/filters/etc selected on the touch screen you will always directly see the settings of any selected channel.

Is Nuage the perfect controller? No. But it's pretty darn awesome.
Old 4th December 2019
  #102
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
The use of the nice weighted wheel to navigate/zoom/select/adjust clip level/fade/cut/trim/move stuff is highly addictive and fast.
This is partly what I referred to earlier. I think the controller is only part of your experience in this specific regard... as the way Nuendo generally handles adjustments at the clip level is much faster than what I've experienced with PT. It makes dialog heavy mixing much faster than messing with faders and automation.... and not having thousands of extra fade files generated at every turn is especially nice for my OCD.
Old 4th December 2019
  #103
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
... and not having thousands of extra fade files generated at every turn is especially nice for my OCD.
Pro Tools is not generating fade files. As for the faders and automation - ymmv.
Old 5th December 2019
  #104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
Pro Tools is not generating fade files. As for the faders and automation - ymmv.
You're right Branko, however it does when creating an AAF to transfer to another system.
Old 5th December 2019
  #105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven1145 View Post
You're right Branko, however it does when creating an AAF to transfer to another system.
Ooops, sorry, unknown territory for me!
Old 10th December 2019
  #106
Gear Addict
In case there is any Nuendo-Automation Crack here, I am looking for useful information about the "Virgin Territory" thing. Seeing this, it looked like a great idea. Only have Automation on where you actually wrote Automation. Be free with the fader on all other parts. But it does not seem to be integrated logically to me. If you are at a so called "virgin territory", it indeed does not show any automation graphs, and allthough you already have graphs earlier, at the virgin territory domain during playback you have again free faders even if you are in read mode. But if you press stop they jump back and you last your new faderpositions that you created for that part. If this is a feature I don't understand it. Also for Plugins it means, that if I change a parameter later in my session things might change earlier in the session. If you dont' want this in virgin territory mode you must have "punch assist" engaged, but that creates a lot of datas. It seems like if I want to be close to an automation logic on which I can automate very large session with several songs I have to:
- not use Virgin Territory
- I have to create initial Automation Events at the start of the session, because otherwise if I mix my first song without automation, then go to the next cue, automate new levels for the 2nd song with write to loop, it still kills my first song, because it creates then a ramp from the start to my session of the 2nd song. (because the initial automation values don't correspond with the values of your fader that you put without automation. Not a big deal once you know it, as there is a button to set those values, but also here, I would like to understand the logic. What would be the advantage of not having linked those initial values?
The Virgin Terretory thing is however what I have my problems to understand it.

At the end what is most important for me (and I think every professional mixer): Being able to have multiple Cues (or several songs) in one session. Mix one of the Cues (or Songs), then mix another but you want to be abolutely sure you won't be able to destroy the Song you already mixed. On every old Automation System, be it SSL, be it Flying Faders etc. you had very clear automation boundaries. In Nuendo, as well as in ProTools you have to deal with the Loop, but in both systems this is not totally safe and you have to really know what you are doing to make sure after having mixed the 10th cue (song) that the first one is still as it was mixed when you did it.
Testing Nuendo now for this need. In ProTools that works quite will, but there are several bugs, that actually will kill all your other mixes expect the one you are working on.


Thanks,
Daniel
Old 10th December 2019
  #107
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Fredo's Avatar
 

Daniel,

The Nuendo automation is tailormade for Post-production.
Which means that everything is automated, and wherever and whenever you re-open a project, all things (volume, plugins presets, EQ settings) snap back to their correct values. No accidently moving faders, or having plugins recalling incorrect values.

This requires writing initial parameters at all times. That's how we start each and every project.
When working with Virgin Territories, in the end we Always "close gaps", finishing/completing the automation on each track, from start to end.
Any parameter that is not "locked in" with automation is a potential hazard when you re-open, or someone else reopens a project.

HTH
Fredo
Old 10th December 2019
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
It's not different in Germany. If you don't know PT well as a post pro audio guy, that's career suicide.
.
I've been told exactly this for the last 30+ years. It's no more true today than it was then. I've spent those 30 years working steadily in post. I rarely use PT.
Old 10th December 2019
  #109
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
if you press stop they jump back and you last your new faderpositions that you created for that part. If this is a feature I don't understand it.
Yeah, it's part of the design and I don't understand it either. More often than not when I tried to work using VT I ended up pressing stop and losing any parameter I had just tweaked. To me that's pretty much useless. It would have made far more sense to simply not read any automation at all when the playhead is at a location where no automation is written. Uncharacteristically illogical for the German programmers I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
It seems like if I want to be close to an automation logic on which I can automate very large session with several songs I have to:
- not use Virgin Territory
- I have to create initial Automation Events at the start of the session,
Yep.
Old 10th December 2019
  #110
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
Daniel,

The Nuendo automation is tailormade for Post-production.
Which means that everything is automated, and wherever and whenever you re-open a project, all things (volume, plugins presets, EQ settings) snap back to their correct values. No accidently moving faders, or having plugins recalling incorrect values.

This requires writing initial parameters at all times. That's how we start each and every project.
When working with Virgin Territories, in the end we Always "close gaps", finishing/completing the automation on each track, from start to end.
Any parameter that is not "locked in" with automation is a potential hazard when you re-open, or someone else reopens a project.

HTH
Fredo
Ok, I am good with Post -Production, I am a scoring mixer doing really large Scoring for German cinema movie. I do this in ProTools, which I know since over 20 Years. It is not so easy to become as good in another program quickly:-)
All clear, ok, I set the initial value, it is not a big deal, but what is the reason that you could choose to not do so?

Same with virgin territory, if you have to fill everything (I did not found a way to do that quickly), why work with it? there must be an advantage that I have not seen. If I don't use it, and if I set initial values then most work as expected.
Old 10th December 2019
  #111
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Yeah, it's part of the design and I don't understand it either. More often than not when I tried to work using VT I ended up pressing stop and losing any parameter I had just tweaked. To me that's pretty much useless. It would have made far more sense to simply not read any automation at all when the playhead is at a location where no automation is written. Uncharacteristically illogical for the German programmers I think.



Yep.
Its really hard to believe that there is no deeper sense. Still trying to find one. Yes the way you describe it is how it should be. Basically a new fader, that you can play with to adjust levels on territory's with no automation. If a territory with automations come the fader could quickly take those values, ok, but then it should release it to the level that it had before the automated territory came. That would then really be something cool and something that protools can't do.

D.
Old 10th December 2019
  #112
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Fredo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
All clear, ok, I set the initial value, it is not a big deal, but what is the reason that you could choose to not do so?
Users working in Music prefer not to work this way. Reason why Cubase has a slightly different automation system. Long story .... don't get me started.
The Nuendo solution where you can choose to set initial parameters or not is some kind of an "option" to work one way or the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Same with virgin territory, if you have to fill everything (I did not found a way to do that quickly), why work with it?
There are options to fill VT in one simple action.
From the manual:

Fill Gaps on Selected Tracks

This option is used with virgin territories. Select this option to fill any gaps in the automation curves of the selected tracks with a continuous value. The value of the last event (the end point) of a section is used to fill the gap. This value is written across the gap up to one millisecond before the first event of the next automated section. A new event is inserted here; the value will be ramped to the next automated section.

Fill Gaps with Current Value (Selected Tracks)

This option is used with virgin territories. Select this option to fill any gaps in the automation curves of the selected tracks. The gaps are filled with the current value of the corresponding control.

HTH
Fredo
Old 10th December 2019
  #113
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo View Post
Users working in Music prefer not to work this way. Reason why Cubase has a slightly different automation system. Long story .... don't get me started.
The Nuendo solution where you can choose to set initial parameters or not is some kind of an "option" to work one way or the other.

There are options to fill VT in one simple action.
From the manual:

Fill Gaps on Selected Tracks

This option is used with virgin territories. Select this option to fill any gaps in the automation curves of the selected tracks with a continuous value. The value of the last event (the end point) of a section is used to fill the gap. This value is written across the gap up to one millisecond before the first event of the next automated section. A new event is inserted here; the value will be ramped to the next automated section.

Fill Gaps with Current Value (Selected Tracks)

This option is used with virgin territories. Select this option to fill any gaps in the automation curves of the selected tracks. The gaps are filled with the current value of the corresponding control.

HTH
Fredo
Yeah, I red that part of the manual many many times. I just don't see the reason or a benefit not just working with the normal automation mode. Also with the EQ's strange things happend when I filled the gaps.. But I'll do some more tests with that to see if there is any use for me.
Thx,
d
Old 10th December 2019
  #114
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Obviously punch in/out and "write automation to end" do exactly what they promise, and the combination can be very powerful.

But have also tried editing the automation data in Nuendo's Project Browser? Everything is nicely laid out, first by track, then by function within that track (plug-in or built-in), then in a nice timecode list. You can copy/paste/delete freely while there.
Old 11th December 2019
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I've been told exactly this for the last 30+ years. It's no more true today than it was then. I've spent those 30 years working steadily in post. I rarely use PT.
That might work for you personally, but to not be capable to operate the standard toolset an industry is using is generally not the best career advice, no matter what industry.
Old 11th December 2019
  #116
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
Obviously punch in/out and "write automation to end" do exactly what they promise, and the combination can be very powerful.

But have also tried editing the automation data in Nuendo's Project Browser? Everything is nicely laid out, first by track, then by function within that track (plug-in or built-in), then in a nice timecode list. You can copy/paste/delete freely while there.
Not for my logic. In post (and in music) I like to be able to work in an unautomated session until I like my settings. Lets say that's my rough mix. Let's say it is only one song to make it simple. In every automation system that I know (Harrison, Neve Flying Fader, Protools, ) if I go to Bar 20, set the automation system to on (engage read/write for all tracks) and I punch in automation, whatever was before that punch will be as it was. In Nuendo for that you have to set the initial values. That's all fine and not a problem, but I would prefer if I would understand if any mixer would not set that initial parameter. I don't see a logic that you might ever want to punch in automation at a given time (be it post or music) and you would not want all the values before that punch to be unaffected.

"Trim to Loop, Start, end do exactly what they promise":
Trim to Loop yes. Trim to start / end: Well sort of. In Post, at least that is how I work: If I engage an automation loop I prefer if that would work for everything, also write to start and write to end, in most cases it would make more sense if it would then write to Loops' End, not the end of the project. That's how it is in ProTools. If you want to write to the projects end by pressing the "write to end" you still could take the loop out.

Let me make a concrete example: I have 5 Scoring Cues in one session. All are near finish, all are completely automated, all are nearly good to bounce the stems. In Cue 3 we want to ride the Orchestra dynamically once more. It needs some moving faders in the first few bars, after that I want to leave my level constant to the end of the cue, but with an offset of 2 dB. In ProTools you would engage the Automation Boundary Loop. You would start to make your fader moves for the beginning and then press "write to end after stop" and the end value you will have it to the end of that Cue. that feature is kind of important for me, but I can live without it. Easy in ProTools, easy with Flying Faders, Easy with Harrison Automation. Or do I miss something and it can be done in Nuendo?

What is also funny: One of the most important Automation Modes that you had in Flying Faders already in the 80thies, but it is not there in any DAW: A combined Latch and Trim mode. What it does: If you press the fader it overrides the current automation, but if you release the fader it won't override, but trim it with the offset level you had when you released the fader. If you touch it again it continuous to override and so on. If then you press "write to end" (which flying fader Automation does always if you stop) then it would again trim until to the end, but not overwrite. All old mixers that used Flying Faders (or I believe also Harrison had that) know what I am talking about. That was the most useful automation mode, but it never made it into a DAW.

"But have also tried editing the automation data in Nuendo's Project Browser? Everything is nicely laid out, first by track, then by function within that track (plug-in or built-in), then in a nice timecode list. You can copy/paste/delete freely while there":

I will try that. At first it seemed like I just have so much automation tracks, and on a session with over 100 tracks it was not really inviting me to do any edits. But here again, I am oldschool, I don't want to edit automation. I want to work with faders and have a logic that I can follow.

In Nuendo what I do to copy automation to different cues is, that I work with Preview. It then saves my Preview punches automatically. If I go back to a punch it copies that old punch again into the preview and I can just punch it where I want. That seems to be great and more easy than how that would work with the Snappshot Function in ProTools.

Long Story short: Not using Virgin Territory, Set initial Automation Values after my basic sound for the enrire Project is ok, and working with Preview etc. it seems that that works fine. So back to more testing.

D.

Last edited by idee und klang; 11th December 2019 at 02:51 PM.. Reason: spelling
Old 11th December 2019
  #117
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spiderman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
That might work for you personally, but to not be capable to operate the standard toolset an industry is using is generally not the best career advice, no matter what industry.
It's funny that the devout PT people just assume those who choose other platforms aren't also skilled in PT. Is it because they have never used anything else themselves and assume the same of everyone?

Example: I have a PT Op certification, and choose to never use it... and the client's generally don't care. My career is doing quite well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
I've been told exactly this for the last 30+ years. It's no more true today than it was then. I've spent those 30 years working steadily in post. I rarely use PT.
You have to admit... this is genius marketing by the old guard.
Old 11th December 2019
  #118
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Not for my logic. In post (and in music) I like to be able to work in an unautomated session until I like my settings. Lets say that's my rough mix. Let's say it is only one song to make it simple. In every automation system that I know (Harrison, Neve Flying Fader, Protools, ) if I go to Bar 20, set the automation system to on (engage read/write for all tracks) and I punch in automation, whatever was before that punch will be as it was. In Nuendo for that you have to set the initial values.
I might be wrong here, but I think you might have done two things at the same time and that's why you end up with the functionality you do - if you deselect VT you should have the behavior I think you're looking for, but if you also create auto nodes at the top automatically then of course those will be valid and any subsequent changes later in the timeline won't change them.

It would seem to me that deselecting VT would be enough to give you what you need. In other words with VT off you should be able to set values as you choose before enabling read/write. Then when you do enable those two and touch a fader in for example "touch" mode it should write automation starting at where that fader was which in turn means that the starting value will be written as an initial auto node as well as end node (once you cease touching the fader / punch out).

Or am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
moving faders in the first few bars, after that I want to leave my level constant to the end of the cue, but with an offset of 2 dB. In ProTools you would engage the Automation Boundary Loop. You would start to make your fader moves for the beginning and then press "write to end after stop" and the end value you will have it to the end of that Cue. that feature is kind of important for me, but I can live without it. Easy in ProTools, easy with Flying Faders, Easy with Harrison Automation. Or do I miss something and it can be done in Nuendo?
So I think the start point of auto write is the problem there. You're right that if you set "loop" as the fill parameter and your loop is set to the entire cue you'll just go over the ramp at the beginning, so that won't work. And you're right that if you set "to end" it'll overwrite subsequent cues.

What I would recommend you try though is creating a custom macro for automation and range selection modes. I haven't tried this, but I would imagine that there is a command for trimming the beginning of your selected range, so I would think the workaround would be to first set the loop range to the entire length of the cue, and then have a macro that does the following:

1. Set start point of loop range to cursor/playback head's current position (this may need to be two steps, not sure)
2. Enable fill to loop

This way your loop range would now have moved to the point where you would normally have pressed "write to end after stop". If the macro is sufficient then once fill to loop is enabled I'd imagine it'd still write to loop. It's possible that you'd also need to set preview and/or possibly re-touch the parameter to trigger write for that newly set loop range, and then have your punch-out be manual, via a key command or automatic.

Anyway, I'd look into possibly creating a macro for this if it is helping your workflow out. Might be better than nothing.
Old 11th December 2019
  #119
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
...

It would seem to me that deselecting VT would be enough to give you what you need. In other words with VT off you should be able to set values as you choose before enabling read/write. Then when you do enable those two and touch a fader in for example "touch" mode it should write automation starting at where that fader was which in turn means that the starting value will be written as an initial auto node as well as end node (once you cease touching the fader / punch out).

Or am I missing something?
That might well be the case, thanks, good point. I'll check that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
.... then have a macro that does the following:

1. Set start point of loop range to cursor/playback head's current position (this may need to be two steps, not sure)
2. Enable fill to loop

This way your loop range would now have moved to the point where you would normally have pressed "write to end after stop". If the macro is sufficient then once fill to loop is enabled I'd imagine it'd still write to loop. It's possible that you'd also need to set preview and/or possibly re-touch the parameter to trigger write for that newly set loop range, and then have your punch-out be manual, via a key command or automatic.
....
Great Idea, I'll try that. And after fill to loop it however has to go back to how the loop was before for the entire loop, but I guess even that could be possible with Nuendo.

Thanks,
Dl
Old 11th December 2019
  #120
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by idee und klang View Post
Great Idea, I'll try that. And after fill to loop it however has to go back to how the loop was before for the entire loop, but I guess even that could be possible with Nuendo.

Thanks,
Dl
Not sure how that would be done. I suppose maybe there's a key command for selecting preset cycle markers etc so..
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