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Avid Reacts to the New Mac Pro
Old 3rd June 2019
  #1
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Avid Reacts to the New Mac Pro

Here's Avid's response to the NEW Mac Pro:
Avid
“Avid’s Pro Tools team is blown away by the unprecedented processing power of the new Mac Pro, and thanks to its internal expansion capabilities, up to six Pro Tools HDX cards can be installed within the system – a first for Avid’s flagship audio workstation. We’re now able to deliver never-before-seen performance and capabilities for audio production in a single system and deliver a platform that professional users in music and post have been eagerly awaiting.” — Francois Quereuil, director of Product Management, Avid"
Old 3rd June 2019
  #2
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I think this is fantastic.

Yes, I think it is expensive. Although, being able to run a 28 core processor with 1.5 TB of RAM would be pretty nice. For me, the modularity of the system will make it easier to maintain when something goes wrong.

With the current gen, I am out of luck if anything, really, fails on the system.

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
Here's Avid's response to the NEW Mac Pro:
Avid
“Avid’s Pro Tools team is blown away by the unprecedented processing power of the new Mac Pro, and thanks to its internal expansion capabilities, up to six Pro Tools HDX cards can be installed within the system – a first for Avid’s flagship audio workstation. We’re now able to deliver never-before-seen performance and capabilities for audio production in a single system and deliver a platform that professional users in music and post have been eagerly awaiting.” — Francois Quereuil, director of Product Management, Avid"
Old 3rd June 2019
  #3
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I wonder if, with 6 HDX, we'll be able to expand input/outputs.

Way back on TDM systems, when Avid was saying everyone is limited 10 interfaces, the Avid team came over to our studio and told us could actually go to 12 interfaces per system.

And... the DAD HDX expansion card is coming end of June/beginning of July. I haven't gotten clarity on whether you can use more than 1 of those in a AX32/MTRX yet.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #4
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I'm very excited they went back to modularity and a design that actually makes sense. Reminds me of the older G4 and G5 machines. Can't wait to try it.
Old 4th June 2019
  #5
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This shows far more sense about the market for their high-end computers than they have evidenced in recent years. I was afraid that they would not ever make a modular computer again, and that the top of their line would just be big iMacs. I hope they don't kill the Mini as part of this campaign though....
Old 4th June 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
This shows far more sense about the market for their high-end computers than they have evidenced in recent years. I was afraid that they would not ever make a modular computer again, and that the top of their line would just be big iMacs. I hope they don't kill the Mini as part of this campaign though....
They did at a conference last year say they were listening to the pro users and are coming out with a modular mac next year. I had posted a few times that if there is no PCIE slots, it would be an EPIC fail a few times. Looks like Apple said "Hold my beer" LOL
Old 4th June 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post

And... the DAD HDX expansion card is coming end of June/beginning of July. I haven't gotten clarity on whether you can use more than 1 of those in a AX32/MTRX yet.
What's that?

Last edited by psycho_monkey; 27th June 2019 at 10:51 AM..
Old 4th June 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
What's that?
Like the DA, AD, AES, new Dante 128, and MADI cards that can go into the eight expansion slots, there’s an HDX card coming with two DigiLink Mini ports per card. So like the current MTRX (or older DAD AX32) can appear as 64 channels to Pro Tools HDX with the built-in chassis connectors, it will soon be able to appear as 128 channels, at a minimum, to Pro Tools with one of these cards added.

In possibly a fevered dream, I thought there was mention of being able to use 3 of these cards per chassis. But I may have been delirious. But the card is coming — I thought at the end of the year but I was told recently it will be shipping within a month by a dealer.

It would allow a one box/Pro Tools HDX ATMOS setup with patching done internally through DADman.
Old 4th June 2019
  #9
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Oliver.Lucas's Avatar
Pro:

* pcie, upgradable
* seems like a super capable workstation, that will make pro tools fly for a couple of years to come.

Cons:

* pricey (but you need to see the cost factor over the entire products lifecycle, very likely 8 years, or so.
* still no solution for enthusiast i9 processor based machines at a lower cost (like the hackintosh builds) that would probably also use a lot less power
* no built in drive bays
* expensive graphics overkill for audio people, even with the entry level machine
* non standard ssd connectors
* you need to unplug everything when you wanto to open the machine.

Since 5.1 grates are out of the update cycle with the next mac os, people will sooner or later need to move in one direction, be it mac mini, mac pro or windows. I believe hackintoshes will pretty soon become obolete when Apple start to use the T2 as a copy protection for mac os.
Old 4th June 2019
  #10
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They demoed a session running 1000 tracks loaded with plugins on the machine that didn't even blink.....with Logic.

AVID: Hey, now buy at least 4 of our cards or tons of voice packs to do the same with ProTools. Oh, btw, the HDn card is discontinued.




more serious thoughts:

-Love the design, they finally seem to have understood what pros want.
-But: How the case opens is a big fail. They say it's great because it opens on both sides. Thing is: you need at least the same height above the machine to actually open the case as it's a solid shell that you need slide over the top to remove i. The old 5,1 did this much smarter. You only need a bit of space to the side to open the case. And you don't have to unplug a single cable to do this.
-Not sure what's actually modular apart from the slots? Can you replace the system drive / ram yourself?
- Price: Is pretty much like the old flag-ships. The 12 core 5,1 expanded was how much initially? 10k$
- Monitor: not an aspect as no audio person needs it.
.- Biggest downside: no drive bays. You still need a pile of drives plus cabling plus wall warts to actually get something done.
- 2x 10Gbit ports are great!

Last edited by apple-q; 4th June 2019 at 10:48 AM..
Old 4th June 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
It would allow a one box/Pro Tools HDX ATMOS setup with patching done internally through DADman.
That would be such a strange setup though. That this is needed for a one-machine setup is such a backwards move.

Avid has to solve the ADC/routing limitations so that a normal internal routing between the renderer and PT is possible without jumping through any hoops and just smooth out the workflow already in place with the local renderer. No need for physical IO except for the speaker channels.
Old 4th June 2019
  #12
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Apple at least shows they're serious again. The price is okay though all the marketing talk is about the top spec'ed 28 core model which will probably set you back at least 10k extra. The base model cpu spec is okay at best, but nothing to brag about.

The 8 core model will probably perform similarly or worse than the current top of the line imac's and imac pro's. And fall way behind hackintoshes with much more powerful cpu chips.

But hopefully you could get the base model and swap out the cpu in a few years when they come down in price.

I also love the rack mount option design.
Old 4th June 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
That would be such a strange setup though. That this is needed for a one-machine setup is such a backwards move.
Not really. The current reference system is 1 MTRX and 2 HD MADI. Now eliminate the 2 HD MADI because those are also in the MTRX box. So it is now 1 MTRX hooked to one ATMOS RMU via MADI or Dante. Very little cabling and direct internal patching from DADman.
Old 4th June 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Like the DA, AD, AES, new Dante 128, and MADI cards that can go into the eight expansion slots, there’s an HDX card coming with two DigiLink Mini ports per card. So like the current MTRX (or older DAD AX32) can appear as 64 channels to Pro Tools HDX with the built-in chassis connectors, it will soon be able to appear as 128 channels, at a minimum, to Pro Tools with one of these cards added.

In possibly a fevered dream, I thought there was mention of being able to use 3 of these cards per chassis. But I may have been delirious. But the card is coming — I thought at the end of the year but I was told recently it will be shipping within a month by a dealer.

It would allow a one box/Pro Tools HDX ATMOS setup with patching done internally through DADman.
I thought those where just digilink cards that had no processing. Purely for IO.
Old 4th June 2019
  #15
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As with the trashcan, I don't understand the logic of having to unplug everything to open the machine up. Re opening up a machine in an industrial (ie rack) setting--you'll have to take the whole thing out of the rack to do that. Maybe the thought on not having internal drive bays is that you won't be doing that much. But while they make a deal about how quiet the thing is, you'll still have drives out side it (messy) that may have fans of their own?
Old 4th June 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
I thought those where just digilink cards that had no processing. Purely for IO.
It is just pure I/o. Problem is the MTRX can handle thousands of i/o but a connected ProTools system can only directly interact with 64 i/o. This would change that.
Old 4th June 2019
  #17
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I’m assuming the rackmount version replaces the whole external shell. The picture of racked Mac pros seems to indicate something like that. Hopefully that means no need to disconnect to get into the computer.
Old 4th June 2019
  #18
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With the existing "Trash Can Mac Pro's" for those of us wanting to use
HDX cards we had to buy this:
https://www.sonnetstore.com/collecti...mac-pro-server

Right off the top we save $2 K (once the unit is set up with expansion bays).
So when you take a trashcan and lay it out it costs about $7500.00
Now these new MAC Pro's and their price seem good in comparison.
My Cheese Grater Macs cost $5K in 2012.
They have lasted 7 years so far.
If we take the cost based on 250 days a year of work, divided by
7 years it costs less than $2.86 a day!
It makes the new Macs and the flexibility and power look that more attractive!

Last edited by dr.sound; 4th June 2019 at 05:38 PM..
Old 4th June 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
If we take the cost based on 250 days a year of work, divided by
7 years it costs less than $2.86 a day!
It makes the new Macs and the flexibility and power look that more attractive!
For less than the price of a cup of coffee, you too can own the Mac Pro

I agree looking at the big picture the price is not an issue for a business asset.
Old 4th June 2019
  #20
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
With the existing "Trash Can Mac Pro's" for those of us wanting to use
HDX cards we had to buy this:
https://www.sonnetstore.com/collecti...mac-pro-server

Right off the top we save $2 K (once the unit is set up with expansion bays).
On the other hand I believe the way to have avoided the above was to not chose a Mac to begin with. And now you're "stuck" having spent the 2k in the first place.

I'm not saying it isn't worth the money for a business, or that it isn't legit to prefer Mac OSX, but sometimes I do think users tend to look at things in a very Mac-centric way which makes some arguments a bit less... reasonable.. ignoring the aforementioned caveats for a moment...
Old 4th June 2019
  #21
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Matt,
Good observation but.. 95+% of Pro Tools Post Sound houses in Hollywood are Mac based. Most Sound Editors, Mixers and Recordist are Mac oriented.
I will gladly pay the difference in cost for the comfort of using a tool that I and others who I employ know well. Not to mention all the issues with Windows 10 and Microsoft warning people about upgrading to the latest release.
It all comes down to what one feels comfortable with.
For the price of a small cup of Starbucks daily I can have something that fits into my business that I can rely on. I'm fine with that
Old 4th June 2019
  #22
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dr. sound did not add in Apple's rackmount option cost for this new mac pro when including his sonnet chassis (by the way, expansion is only $750 for a Sonnet/Magma and a Magma rack is about $300, so you can have Deluxe's setup for about $1050. I know this since I just did it about 1 month ago.)

So if the new monitor stand is any bearing on price, tack on $1k for a rackmount from Apple.

Anyone can justify any price over arbitrary time. You chose 7 years based on the 2012 models but you skipped the trashcans. Others didn't. And some will skip this model.
Old 4th June 2019
  #23
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You can’t deny it is more expensive than previous generations’ base models.

Also that 6 grand doesn’t get you the supercomputer everybody is talking about. That will more likely be in the region of 30 to 40k.


I want one, though
Old 4th June 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Anyone can justify any price over arbitrary time. You chose 7 years based on the 2012 models but you skipped the trashcans. Others didn't. And some will skip this model.
It's not arbitrary, it's the standard 7 years deduction of equipment for a Business. I skipped "Trashcans" because I spent a whole lot more money on
49 Meyer Speakers, 2 DAD's ( AX32 and a DX 32) a Barco 2K 19B DCI Projector
and updated my Cheesegrater's with SSD's (before anyone in town did).
I understand some will pass on the New Mac Pro's, just the way I passed on the
Trashcan, but to call them expensive, no they are in line with previous versions of Mac Pro's... A cup of Starbucks a day is a small price to pay.
I'll skip Starbucks!
Old 4th June 2019
  #25
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Leverson's Avatar
With every generation of computers getting more powerful, I think if you buy a powerful machine expecting 8+ or even 10+ years from it isn't unreasonable this day and age. Especially if aspects are modular. I also agree with Marti's assessment about the Mac operating system in the post environment, at least here in LA. When I was buying my previous mix computer I looked at making a Hackintosh for cost savings, but I saw a number of friends and post houses having issues with their Hackintosh builds I realized that even if it only went down for a day or two in the middle of a mix or project deadline any and all savings would be a moot point. I'm okay with paying an extra Apple tax as long as they make the hardware dependable and long lasting. Easy collaboration and peace of mind are valuable assets too.

I think the new mac pro is interesting, and even if I don't jump in on this model (I'm one of the trashcan folks and it's still going strong for me), I'm glad to see modular and upgradable is a direction Apple is going with it. I've been afraid for a long time of the iPhone-like direction their computer builds were taking, this seems like a welcome course-correction, at least from the initial announcement.
Old 4th June 2019
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
no they are in line with previous versions of Mac Pro's...
I'm afraid they are definitely not.


G5 was 1999
2006 original Mac Pro was 2299
2009 4,1 was 2499
2012 5,1 was 2499
2013 thrashcan was 2999


Even considering inflation, 5999 is a lot more expensive than any base model of all these previous versions.


Edit: I'm not discussing if it is worthwhile to make such an investment or not. But facts are facts, and the fact here is that you will need to spend more money for this iteration of the mac pro.
Old 4th June 2019
  #27
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I am really curious what the price tags on the more desirable machines like the 16 core will be when you add a larger ssd and more ram...
I guess we will pass the 10k mark. That's a lot for a computer.
Old 4th June 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
I'm afraid they are definitely not.


G5 was 1999
2006 original Mac Pro was 2299
2009 4,1 was 2499
2012 5,1 was 2499
2013 thrashcan was 2999


Even considering inflation, 5999 is a lot more expensive than any base model of all these previous versions.


Edit: I'm not discussing if it is worthwhile to make such an investment or not. But facts are facts, and the fact here is that you will need to spend more money for this iteration of the mac pro.
I spent nearly $5000 on my 2012 2.66 12 Core Mac Pro.
That's a Fact. I understand your point.
BTW I also bought a G-4, Multiple G5's and 6 Mac Pro Cheesegrater's.
Hopefully I can cut down by 1 machine that is dedicated to Video in my existing set up to combine a Stem Recorder ( HDX 3 ) and Video in the same machine that will give me 6K, 4K, 2K and HD all together without breaking a sweat!
Old 4th June 2019
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
I spent nearly $5000 on my 2012 2.66 12 Core Mac Pro.
That's a Fact. I understand your point.

You're proving my point.

The 12 core model was one of the top of the line model back then, not the base model. So you cannot compare that model to the base 8 core model today.
The top spec model new mac pro will cost an impressive amount of money more than what you payed in 2012.
Old 4th June 2019
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
You're proving my point.

The 12 core model was one of the top of the line model back then, not the base model. So you cannot compare that model to the base 8 core model today.
The top spec model new mac pro will cost an impressive amount of money more than what you payed in 2012.
Not quite right..
The 12 Core 2.66 was NOT the top model.
I chose it because it wasn't. There's a long story why
and now's now the time for details.
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