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The root of the audio tick
Old 3rd May 2019
  #1
The root of the audio tick

Lately the show I'm mixing is coming in with a fair amount of audio ticks. Never on the boom. The recordings are not overly compressed or limited. I've never stopped to think about it, but what is the general concensus on the origination of these type of ticks (sample attached).


A little tech info:
Sound Devices 788 Recorder (24 bit)
Edited in Adobe Premiere
AAF export at (24 bit)
Imported to Pro Tools (24 bit)
Attached Files

Lav Audio with Ticks.wav (575.9 KB, 853 views)


Last edited by Sonic Mafia; 3rd May 2019 at 10:59 PM..
Old 3rd May 2019
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Second part has some severe compression kicking in that only leaves the transients resulting in the clicks at the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mafia View Post
Lately the show I'm mixing is coming in with a fair amount of audio ticks. Never on the boom, always the lav and almost always when someone is speaking. The recordings are not overly compressed or limited. I've never stopped to think about it, but what is the general concensus on the origination of these type of ticks (sample attached). These ticks/clicks are almost always at the head of a word.


A little tech info:
Sound Devices 788 Recorder (24 bit)
Edited in Adobe Premiere
AAF export at (24 bit)
Imported to Pro Tools (24 bit)
Old 3rd May 2019
  #3
I don't know, the files have quite a bit of dynamics to them, with the typical loud to soft volume trail of a dynamic speaker. I would expect a bit more of a squashed result. And after looking further into it the ticks ARE happening even when the mic is open and she's not talking. (edited first post).

I need to get the raw audio from the Field Recorder and check those files against mine.

Last edited by Sonic Mafia; 3rd May 2019 at 11:17 PM..
Old 3rd May 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mafia View Post
I don't know, the files have quite a bit of dynamics to them, with the typical loud to soft volume trail of a dynamic speaker. I would expect a bit more of a squashed result. And after looking further into it the ticks ARE happening even when the mic is open and she's not talking. (edited first post).
Yes, but if that tick is electronic or digital it could very well reach full scale and bump into a limiter threshold rather than a compressor. So because it's then way louder than the voice the limiting only kicks in when the tick happens.

It was my first thought also that some automated dynamics seem to have kicked in.

This is actually pretty good news because if that's the case then you should have an easier time troubleshooting. It would for example not be errors in file transfers or other digital data transmission (as I would think that would result in individual samples flipping - not causing compression/limiting).
Old 3rd May 2019
  #5
You might be on to something with the limiting of electronic ticks...

Found another good example. This one has something funky going on with it at the end, like its looping back into itself.
Attached Files

Lav Audio with Ticks C.wav (649.5 KB, 809 views)

Old 3rd May 2019
  #6
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PS: I think the root of it is Eb.
Old 3rd May 2019
  #7
Oh man, sorry about the low volume of the examples. I did the old Command-Shift - K, to export and forgot that clip gain doesn't carry over!
Old 16th May 2019
  #8
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mafia View Post
Lately the show I'm mixing is coming in with a fair amount of audio ticks. Never on the boom. The recordings are not overly compressed or limited. I've never stopped to think about it, but what is the general concensus on the origination of these type of ticks (sample attached).


A little tech info:
Sound Devices 788 Recorder (24 bit)
Edited in Adobe Premiere
AAF export at (24 bit)
Imported to Pro Tools (24 bit)
I have the exact SAME thing on my show this week.
COS11 to 788, edited in MC

Albeit the "C" and "K" s in mine actually snap even harder.
Old 16th May 2019
  #9
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mafia View Post
You might be on to something with the limiting of electronic ticks...

Found another good example. This one has something funky going on with it at the end, like its looping back into itself.
Thats just a second character repeating ok.
Old 16th May 2019
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Thats just a second character repeating ok.
What I was referring to comes right after that second "okay", those 5 or 6 ticks.
Old 17th May 2019
  #11
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What I hear sounds like synthetic fabric wardrobe noise.
Old 17th May 2019
  #12
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As noted that first example has some severe clamping, could very well be triggered by the ticks.

Could there be some interference here causing the tick and then that is causing the limiting?
Old 17th May 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
What I hear sounds like synthetic fabric wardrobe noise.
Second that. It sounds like the typical ticky rustle you get either from certain cloth rubs of it's double sided tape on the lav slightly coming off and sticking back on while the actor moves.
Especially the Sanken rubber mount for the COS11 is quite infamous for this when mounted with toupee double sided tape in shirts.
Sounds very familiar. I don't think it's a machine doing that. It's mechanical artifacts from the way the lav is mounted/hidden which also explains why it's never on the boom. The noise is extremely close mic so it might seem it's electronic.
Old 17th May 2019
  #14
Is there anything between the COS11 and the Recorder? An RF pack? If so, it could be from that. Poor diversity switching maybe? Clothing rustle (in my experience) is usually longer "swishes" and not so much sharp transients.
Old 17th May 2019
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Is there anything between the COS11 and the Recorder? An RF pack? If so, it could be from that. Poor diversity switching maybe? Clothing rustle (in my experience) is usually longer "swishes" and not so much sharp transients.
I hear sounds like that from wardrobe often. Bad-luck-day starchy shirts, tight synthetic tops, maybe tape noise from the mount. The mic being right in all that magnifies the sound hugely. What I heard didn't sound like an RF issue, but I'd encourage the OP to call the PSM and check in about it. The PSM may be being blown off by the wardrobe dept and/or talent on the noisy fabric issue, and maybe could use some support from post in getting some relief on this issue. One other question I'd ask the PSM is if the talent is using wireless in-ear monitoring at the same time they are on a wireless mic....
Old 17th May 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Is there anything between the COS11 and the Recorder? An RF pack? If so, it could be from that. Poor diversity switching maybe? Clothing rustle (in my experience) is usually longer "swishes" and not so much sharp transients.
Those sharp transients are typical for adhesive tape on the lav. You can hear it with your bare ear with mic in your hand and you pull a piece of cloth from it slightly. It's sort of a signature sound for it, especially with mics like the COS11 that tend to get wrapped in double-sided tape and then stuck into a shirt.
Not typical for a DPA in a concealer mount.
Old 17th May 2019
  #17
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nucelar's Avatar
 

Uhm..maybe too obvious, but is a bad connection a possibility?
Old 17th May 2019
  #18
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Many in reality shoots are still using illegal wireless blocks (frequencies)
Old 26th May 2019
  #19
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
heard that many times .. hidden mics under clothing, or rubbing against clothing that is NOT cotton .. someone mentioned this above .. starchy shirts ..

and also sounds a bit like the mic connector is not tight .. thats RF / Hidden Mic crap .. sound mixers are not as diligent as we used to be .. or it was the camera person putting on the mic'sand there is no sound person .. BUT you mentioned SD recorders, so just inexperienced Sound Mixers .. i get things like this sent to me all the time for evaluation .. and most times when i get to see the picture you can see what it is !! and most times it is from lack of experience OR lack of the BALLS to tell someone that the audio is BAd right then and there .. Stand Up and Tell Them when audio is BAD and Fix it .. and know how to Fix it !!! I never wnat anyone to say MY Name in Post !!! and they never say the Sound Mixers name unles it is a PROBLEM ...

not yelling only for emphasis ..

like you said - Never on the Boom !!! JOhnny Loves the Boom !!! BUT all this reality Crap is RF - and also was menitoned the Non-Compliant Freq's !! gettig ugly now with T MObile jumping into the Range of Radio Mics ..

cheers john
Old 27th May 2019
  #20
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
Freq's !! gettig ugly now with T MObile jumping into the Range of Radio Mics ..

cheers john
Quite the opposite.
Reality production mixers refusing to update their wireless blocks.
Old 27th May 2019
  #21
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVPostSound View Post
Quite the opposite.
Reality production mixers refusing to update their wireless blocks.
haha, wow yeah ... I fully Stand Corrected my Friend !! cheers john !!!
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