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HD Native on PCI-e 500 Series Preamps
Old 6th April 2019
  #1
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Mundox's Avatar
HD Native on PCI-e

I am interested in hearing people's experiences with AVID Native HD PCI-e cards on Mac Pro cheese graters.

I have HDX in my room, aside from few teething problems (replaced twice, changed fan once etc.) it's fine.

My other 2 rooms are still on old TDM (yes PT10!) and I'd love to get them up to speed with PT Ultimate as the latest version is actually working properly finally. But I can't justify the cost of HDX for these rooms yet.

My question is, whether HD Native is good for recording as far as latency goes. It's essential that we can continue recording VO, ADR, Foley without introducing latency.

What is your experience / workarounds?

thanks!
Old 6th April 2019
  #2
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pethenis's Avatar
 

It's not a problem for me, but I do miss the “Don’t have to think about it” aspect of HDX, and recording with plug-ins on the track ;-)

You’ll have to record without active plug-ins on the record track and it’s Downstream path. I usually route it to my master directly, just for the recording. Set your system to the lowest HW Buffersize you can (64?) and deactivate delay comp. Then there’s no noticable delay in talent cans.
Old 6th April 2019
  #3
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
When switching from hdx to hd native I noticed an overall increase of performance.
And I think latency is actually better, but don’t quote me on that.

But yes you lose low latency monitoring with plugins. If you can’t live without that, go hdx or get a modern cpu that can handle recording at 32 samples buffersize. (I have switched to a i9 hackintosh and it doesn’t break a sweat at 32 samples, so I ditched the native card too)
Old 6th April 2019
  #4
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pethenis View Post
You’ll have to record without active plug-ins on the record track and it’s Downstream path.
I have to do that with my HDX system too for some reason. But yeah, we always record on a naked track anyway.
Hopefully the Native performance will be better than HD2.
Old 7th April 2019
  #5
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I've been recording ADR/VO on an HDN PCie on a 5,1 since the year it first came out, %99 of the time to picture with up to 30+ tracks when doing ADR with zero issues.
Old 7th April 2019
  #6
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I've been using an HD Native PCIe / Cheese grater Mac / Omni system for about 4 years now. It's been used pretty much exclusively for post work in that time and it's been an excellent system for everything you've described.

I will say a couple of years ago I upgraded to the last, most powerful Cheese grater model with a PCIe boot disk and a monster video card. It makes a huge difference with native systems and their so cheap now that the upgrade cost is trivial.
Old 7th April 2019
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaschaP View Post
I've been using an HD Native PCIe / Cheese grater Mac / Omni system for about 4 years now. It's been used pretty much exclusively for post work in that time and it's been an excellent system for everything you've described.

I will say a couple of years ago I upgraded to the last, most powerful Cheese grater model with a PCIe boot disk and a monster video card. It makes a huge difference with native systems and their so cheap now that the upgrade cost is trivial.
What video card and what differences did the video card make?
I upgraded my boot to a SSD but still on stock 5770 GPU running dual 2K monitors and need more CPU power. Thinking of getting an RX 580 8GP gpu if it'll be noticeable?
Old 7th April 2019
  #8
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I have a flashed Nvidia Titan X 12GB but I didn't really notice a big boost for Pro Tools. I got it for video editing work.

The one biggest overall boost was switching from a regular SSD boot drive to M.2 PCIe flash boot drive. There are so many general computing tasks that need to reference or cache info on your boot disk that it speeds up the whole system considerably.

Edit: I misread your comment. I thought you already had a RX 580. Coming from a 5770 to a 580 will be a huge improvement. Especially if you ever move up to 4k monitors.
Old 8th April 2019
  #9
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaschaP View Post
I have a flashed Nvidia Titan X 12GB but I didn't really notice a big boost for Pro Tools. I got it for video editing work.
Where did you get that? And do you have the extra Sata power cable that is required?
Old 8th April 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
Where did you get that? And do you have the extra Sata power cable that is required?
As far as I know MacVidCards.com - Home is the only place that sells proper flashed Nvidia cards. I think other people are just using their flashing techniques. I do have the extra power cable. It's very easy to install, plug and play.

I will say in retro-spec... I probably would have gotten an AMD card instead. They are a little less powerful but they use they use the OSX graphics driver (a little more future proof) as opposed to the Nvidia web graphics driver. It's not a big deal but you have to update it every time you update the OS. If you do use a CUDA heavy application like Premiere Pro than the extra power of the Nvidia card is worth the hassle.
Old 9th April 2019
  #11
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Mundox's Avatar
On my video machine that runs Premiere, Resolve etc. I upgraded the CPU, and got an M2 for the boot drive, and was looking at Titan or similar for the GPU.
But what is stopping me from investing further into the old beast and holding out for a new iMac is the limitation of storage options. I only have internal RAID with 4 Sata drives which is not cutting it with 4k workflows.
PCI-e drives are good but very costly for their size.
If you have a clever solution to get fast (and large) storage for these machines I am all ears.
Old 10th April 2019
  #12
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Fast yes. Large yes. Fast and large no. It will ultimately be the reason I upgrade past the cheese grater in the coming years.
Old 11th April 2019
  #13
Once your sessions start getting complex, HDN is very limited for low latency monitoring.

I am a huge fan of HDN, but had to go HDX with our ADR stage because the multiple monitoring paths (ISDN, phone, Skype, headphone, control room, booth speaker etc etc) were too complex.

If it's 1 headphone feed for VO or something... Sure, but HDN (with avid's IO) is not adequate for large/complex sessions IMO.
Old 11th April 2019
  #14
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There was an article on Pro Tools Expert a week or two back where they managed to get a Thunderbolt card up and running on an older Mac Pro...


Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
On my video machine that runs Premiere, Resolve etc. I upgraded the CPU, and got an M2 for the boot drive, and was looking at Titan or similar for the GPU.
But what is stopping me from investing further into the old beast and holding out for a new iMac is the limitation of storage options. I only have internal RAID with 4 Sata drives which is not cutting it with 4k workflows.
PCI-e drives are good but very costly for their size.
If you have a clever solution to get fast (and large) storage for these machines I am all ears.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #15
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
There was an article on Pro Tools Expert a week or two back where they managed to get a Thunderbolt card up and running on an older Mac Pro...
Yeah saw that too. Downside is you need windows running on the computer as well.
I wonder if it works with drives though?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #16
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Mundox's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sventeck View Post
Once your sessions start getting complex, HDN is very limited for low latency monitoring.

I am a huge fan of HDN, but had to go HDX with our ADR stage because the multiple monitoring paths (ISDN, phone, Skype, headphone, control room, booth speaker etc etc) were too complex.

If it's 1 headphone feed for VO or something... Sure, but HDN (with avid's IO) is not adequate for large/complex sessions IMO.
This is concerning.
So can it not handle this:

In 1 VO (send to 1+2, 3+4, 5+6)
In 2 Talkback (send to 3+4, 5+6)
In 3-4 Spdif or analog return from Skype/SC/ISDN (send to 1+2, 5+6)


Out 1+2 to control room
Out 3+4 spdif or analog to Skype/SC/ISDN
Out 5-6 Cans
Old 4 weeks ago
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
This is concerning.
So can it not handle this:

In 1 VO (send to 1+2, 3+4, 5+6)
In 2 Talkback (send to 3+4, 5+6)
In 3-4 Spdif or analog return from Skype/SC/ISDN (send to 1+2, 5+6)


Out 1+2 to control room
Out 3+4 spdif or analog to Skype/SC/ISDN
Out 5-6 Cans
That would most likely be fine. I would use the "low latency" mode on the cans, and everything else will be fine. That way you don't have to worry about lowering the buffer to a dangerously low level.
That is how we run a lot of our rooms.
We do sometimes run into problems with special requests, like a singer.

For our dedicated ADR room with more complex monitoring need we went HDX.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #18
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cubivore's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mundox View Post
This is concerning.
So can it not handle this:

In 1 VO (send to 1+2, 3+4, 5+6)
In 2 Talkback (send to 3+4, 5+6)
In 3-4 Spdif or analog return from Skype/SC/ISDN (send to 1+2, 5+6)


Out 1+2 to control room
Out 3+4 spdif or analog to Skype/SC/ISDN
Out 5-6 Cans
this is pretty much what i do and it works fine using HDN and pc. but bcus of source connect i typically have to use at least 128 buffer setting.
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