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rant Special Ef­fects Plugins
Old 5 days ago
  #1
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
rant

Dear Mr Mixerguy,
if something is requested in specs, deliver it and don't be smarter than everyone else.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 DX stems, even if there's something only in the center.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 Mixes, even if you don't make use of the LFE.

You don't have ANY knowledge about anything downstream.
You don't know what channel reshuffling algorithms might be in place which expect certain channels in a certain order.
You don't know what content will automatically be sorted in what category in the asset management system according to channel layout.
You don't know if the MAM can handle anything else than 2-channel or 6-channel files.
The only thing that will happen that my team has to change your stuff and we get mad at you.

You're not smarter than other people in the industry. You are hired to deliver according to specs, not to be Leonardo DaVinci and re-invent the wheel. If you want to change specs, apply for the respective position.

Rant over. Love you all.

Last edited by kosmokrator; 5 days ago at 05:06 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I whole-heartedly agree.

Also, I would love to find a MAM that will handle 6 channel interleaved files.

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
Dear Mr Mixerguy,
if something is requested in specs, deliver it and don't be smarter than everyone else.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 DX stems, even if there's something only in the center.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 Mixes, even if you don't make use of the LFE.

You don't have ANY knowledge about anything downstream.
You don't know what channel reshuffling algorithms might be in place which expect certain channels in a certain order.
You don't know what content will automatically be sorted in what category in the asset management system according to channel layout.
You don't know if the MAM can handle anything else than 2-channel or 6-channel files.
The only thing that will happen that my team has to change your stuff and we get mad at you.

You're not smarter than other people in the industry. You are hired to deliver according to specs, not to be Leonardo DaVinci and re-invent the wheel. If you want to change specs, apply to the respective position.

Rant over. Love you all.
Old 5 days ago
  #3
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I whole-heartedly agree.

Also, I would love to find a MAM that will handle 6 channel interleaved files.

Randall
No I'm not sarcastic right now. I just had to jump in because someone in my team got sick, and I really have better things to do than to reshuffle stems exported by some production house not according to specs so that they work for us.
Old 5 days ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dr.sound's Avatar
 

To make us Mixer types a little smarter...
What does "MAM" stand for?
Old 5 days ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
To make us Mixer types a little smarter...
What does "MAM" stand for?
Media Asset Management. It's where the final layback goes. (A lot more to it but that's the important bit)

While I agree with kosmokrator's OP, we don't always get detailed delivery specs. For TV and Web material my mixes always go through an editor first and they create the final MXF or what have you. So if I deliver a 5.0 DX stem it doesn't matter to them as long as everything is labeled.
Old 5 days ago
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Hey Mr. MAM-guy! Am happy to comply if my producer says they are down with us using studio time to make those stems and will pay for it! Also, if someone (maybe me!) asks for a brief explanation of why you need something, you'll send it along without rancor, right? So we can convince our producers that you're serious? Because we're all playing for the same team? Thanks!
Old 5 days ago
  #7
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dr.sound's Avatar
 

For me I will gladly do whatever is requested in the specs as long as the client is willing to pay for the time to do any unique tracks or configurations for their needs. Deliverables are becoming something that takes a huge amount of focus as each are truly unique but no one is willing to pay for them.
The clients expect it to be free yet exactly what they need.
Now add Dolby Atmos into the deliverables and our work
is even more time consuming.

Speaking of Deliverables...
The Studio who is requesting the deliverables needs to send their list
of what is required when the bid for the project is done NOT
at the last day of the mix!
That way we plan accordingly and can make the process go faster and done
more efficiently.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

I can't speak for Kosmo, but in our case, the requested stems are sent well before mixing starts for our series, as well as naming convention and in the case of ATMOS - Bed/Object designations. For the most part - things are fine. Even with that there are cases where things come back in a way other than specified and we have to go back and forth - which really makes no one happy.

Marti - In our case we have a bunch of different departments that all make use of sound a video elements for each show/movie. All of these elements get loaded up into an Asset Manager so all of the various departments that support getting the show aired properly and supported with the correct advertisements (digital, print, on air) can have what they need.

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by philper View Post
Hey Mr. MAM-guy! Am happy to comply if my producer says they are down with us using studio time to make those stems and will pay for it! Also, if someone (maybe me!) asks for a brief explanation of why you need something, you'll send it along without rancor, right? So we can convince our producers that you're serious? Because we're all playing for the same team? Thanks!
Old 5 days ago
  #9
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
Deliverables are becoming something that takes a huge amount of focus as each are truly unique but no one is willing to pay for them.
I don't mainly do what you guys do, but there are commonalities.

And estimating a big job has always been tedious and thankless, but this whole deliverables-you've-never-encountered thing makes it so much harder to work up a bid. And if you put enough in to really pay for the actual work, you won't get the gig and the time and brain cells you've expended working up the bid are wasted. Dammit.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
dr.sound's Avatar
 

Randall,
Thanks for the response. I have done business with you and your company and they are very good about sending the deliverable specs out and following up with a conference call so everyone is on the same page.

When one works for one company then they see cut and dry what they need,but for those of us who work for various studios each one has unique requirements that need to be presented to those of us who are doing the mix package so we can plan on our audio housekeeping ( deliverables) for the project.

BTW I always give the client/ studio what they require.
They just need to learn to communicate better so everyone is happy!
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
Dear Mr Mixerguy,
if something is requested in specs, deliver it and don't be smarter than everyone else.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 DX stems, even if there's something only in the center.
Yes, there's a reason we request 5.1 Mixes, even if you don't make use of the LFE.

You don't have ANY knowledge about anything downstream.
You don't know what channel reshuffling algorithms might be in place which expect certain channels in a certain order.
You don't know what content will automatically be sorted in what category in the asset management system according to channel layout.
You don't know if the MAM can handle anything else than 2-channel or 6-channel files.
The only thing that will happen that my team has to change your stuff and we get mad at you.

You're not smarter than other people in the industry. You are hired to deliver according to specs, not to be Leonardo DaVinci and re-invent the wheel. If you want to change specs, apply to the respective position.

Rant over. Love you all.
Dear Mr. Studio/Client,

Can we please get delivery specs before we start the mix and not the day before before the M&E mix?
Can we get delivery specs that make sense so we don't have to ask people on GS to de-crypt them or collectively guess what they could possibly mean when they say "deliver the mix to loudness specs" or The "mix should not exceed +6dB". And so we don't have to spend days in e-mail threads to find out what the specs actually mean while mixing? What's a "6+2" anyway in the times of PT-sessions and multi-track optionals. Please be super-clear what this means to you otherwise you will get exactly what you request even if it doesn't make sense at all and we'll charge extra to re-do it all after learning what you actually meant when you said you wanted an M&E that complies to R128.

I could go on dear Studio but please update your 10-year-old-specs once in a while so we don't have to ask you every time we work for you if you really want the 6+2 on DTRS-tape.



(obviously being sarcastic but the above is our daily business)

We love you Mr. and Mrs. Studio/Client, you feed us but please let us know what you really want before we create it otherwise you are not smarter than we are.

Yours, Mr./Mrs. Mixerguy/Mixerwoman.
Old 5 days ago
  #12
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Hey, my rant was not about whether to make stems or not. But I really can't understand why someone would deliver 5.0 mixes and mono DX stems if the specs - which are available from the start of the production and actually are part of the PSA (production service agreement) clearly say that we need these as 5.1 (or 2.0).

A MAM is a media asset management system. The central database where all media stuff ends up in bigger companies (hopefully). With all paperwork added (hopefully). Used as a central place for delivering media assets to the various playouts and sales channels (hopefully).
Old 5 days ago
  #13
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
I could go on dear Studio but please update your 10-year-old-specs...
Only 10? You've never done work for the US Government. :-)
Old 5 days ago
  #14
mymixisbetterthanyours!
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Dear Mr. Studio/Client,

Can we please get delivery specs before we start the mix and not the day before before the M&E mix?
Can we get delivery specs that make sense so we don't have to ask people on GS to de-crypt them or collectively guess what they could possibly mean when they say "deliver the mix to loudness specs" or The "mix should not exceed +6dB". And so we don't have to spend days in e-mail threads to find out what the specs actually mean while mixing? What's a "6+2" anyway in the times of PT-sessions and multi-track optionals. Please be super-clear what this means to you otherwise you will get exactly what you request even if it doesn't make sense at all and we'll charge extra to re-do it all after learning what you actually meant when you said you wanted an M&E that complies to R128.

I could go on dear Studio but please update your 10-year-old-specs once in a while so we don't have to ask you every time we work for you if you really want the 6+2 on DTRS-tape.



(obviously being sarcastic but the above is our daily business)

We love you Mr. and Mrs. Studio/Client, you feed us but please let us know what you really want before we create it otherwise you are not smarter than we are.

Yours, Mr./Mrs. Mixerguy/Mixerwoman.
Haha, spot on!
I completely agree with all you said above. And before being hired away by big business I was in your shoes, so I know both sides of the table pretty well.
Old 5 days ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 

I know you do. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
Randall,
Thanks for the response. I have done business with you and your company and they are very good about sending the deliverable specs out and following up with a conference call so everyone is on the same page.

When one works for one company then they see cut and dry what they need,but for those of us who work for various studios each one has unique requirements that need to be presented to those of us who are doing the mix package so we can plan on our audio housekeeping ( deliverables) for the project.

BTW I always give the client/ studio what they require.
They just need to learn to communicate better so everyone is happy!
Old 5 days ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
For me I will gladly do whatever is requested in the specs as long as the client is willing to pay for the time to do any unique tracks or configurations for their needs. Deliverables are becoming something that takes a huge amount of focus as each are truly unique but no one is willing to pay for them.
The clients expect it to be free yet exactly what they need.
Now add Dolby Atmos into the deliverables and our work
is even more time consuming.
The audio post industry has gotten killed on this over the last 10 years. It was so fun when all our programs where extended an extra act for no additional money when networks invented "snap ins".

Last edited by brandoncross; 5 days ago at 07:41 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator View Post
Haha, spot on!
I completely agree with all you said above. And before being hired away by big business I was in your shoes, so I know both sides of the table pretty well.
countless times I have written M&E road-maps only to find out that they never even surface on the other end of the ocean with desperate sound editors across the pond contacting me personally asking for deliverables that would take too long getting them from the official channels (or a MAM-robot or whatever).

so much money, creativity and brain-work is burnt in this whole process you could supply the state of Luxembourg with power 356 days a year if it could be turned back into electricity.

there's really no reason to rant for anyone. it's just a very un-streamlined process often. And it boils down to some people being smarter and actually think outside the specs and rules to get things done. If everyone stuck to what's in these papers, NOTHING (or very little) would work anymore. People need to keep using their brains (and be more clever than others on both ends) to prevent damage even after reading the manual. Otherwidse I will start delivering M&Es normalized to R128. Get ready for some bleeding ears.

;-)
Old 4 days ago
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Thomas W. Bethe's Avatar
You guys ought to write a book on specs.

In mastering when done "remotely" it is sometimes hard to get the client to tell you what they need. You guys must go bonkers when what they send you does not match what they want you to do. Trying to make clients understand that everything cost $$$ is another issue all together. Best of Luck!!!
Old 4 days ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 
pethenis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
The audio post industry has gotten killed on this over the last 10 years. It was so fun when all our programs where extended an extra act for no additional money when networks invented "snap ins".
What’s a snap in?
Old 4 days ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 

An extra hunk of show that can be dropped in to replace time that would be taken up with commercials or etc on USA TV. (A pain in the ass.)
Old 4 days ago
  #21
Dear Mr client,
For foreign dubs of the movie we mixed could you please stop using the M and the E from the DME we sent instead of the M&E that we carefully crafted to match the original as best as possible ...
Just saying...
Old 4 days ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
...It was so fun when all our programs where extended an extra act for no additional money when networks invented "snap ins".
Ha! "Snap Ins" are to post mixers, what "Newman" is to Jerry (Seinfeld reference)
Old 4 days ago
  #23
Lives for gear
 
TVPostSound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Mafia View Post
Ha! "Snap Ins" are to post mixers, what "Newman" is to Jerry (Seinfeld reference)

I get like a dozen per show.
They should be snap outs.

Give me the whole show, then after marrying the audio to video, edit out the "Snap ins"
Not added to the end of the session, bitch to match!!
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