The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Recommendation for "software foley"? Keyboard Controllers
Old 19th April 2018
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Recommendation for "software foley"?

Just wanted to see if anyone has experience with VSTi or similar for placing foley, and if so which libraries/players are recommended. I'd be interested in mainly steps and clothes and anything else that would just bring some life to content when on a budget and time crunch where full-on foley isn't possible and going through Soundminer or similar would (presumably) be too slow.

Any input is welcome.
Old 19th April 2018
  #2
Here for the gear
 

EDWARD Foleyart Instrument: Your Virtual Foley Artist

This is nice foley instrument - however you can't beat actual Foley!
Old 19th April 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
 

Edward Ultimate so you get clothes (Foleyart doesn't have clothes). And there are expansion packs to the instrument.
EDWARD Ultimate SUITE: The Next Level Virtual Foley
Old 19th April 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Thanks!
Old 20th April 2018
  #5
I use Edward often, indie films and podcasts. It's not perfect but it's pretty good, especially if you use drum pads and turn velocity sensitivity on. john
Old 20th April 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Which version of Edward is recommended?
Old 20th April 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Which version of Edward is recommended?
If you want clothes, you need Ultimate. FoleyArt only has steps.
Old 27th April 2018
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Foley Collection FC999 Bundle. Awesome products! Using them almost everyday!
Old 28th April 2018
  #9
Gear Addict
 

What basic midi keyboards would work with this, preferably with touch sensitivity?

I already have a few Korg Tritons and Kronos, and do not want to use them, but would need something small that I can put on the desk for this. Guessing a full octave ought to suffice?



Thanks
Old 28th April 2018
  #10
Here for the gear
 
Alon Wolman's Avatar
I use an AKAI MPK Mini with the foleycollection bundle. I use the drum pads. I'm considering trying Edward Ultimate too.
Old 28th April 2018
  #11
I also use the MPK Mini drum pads, the available expression works better than regular keys. Planning on trying a Maschine for this in the near future.
Old 28th April 2018
  #12
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Edward Ultimate so you get clothes (Foleyart doesn't have clothes). And there are expansion packs to the instrument.
EDWARD Ultimate SUITE: The Next Level Virtual Foley

Does the Ultimate have every that EDWARD Foleyart Instrument: Your Virtual Foley Artist has or would I need to get both?
Old 28th April 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
Does the Ultimate have every that EDWARD Foleyart Instrument: Your Virtual Foley Artist has or would I need to get both?
Ultimate has everything from Instrument and some at higher resolution. I upgraded from one to the other. The expansion packs for ultimate are slightly more expensive than for instrument for the same reason (higher resolution)
Old 30th April 2018
  #14
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
Ultimate has everything from Instrument and some at higher resolution. I upgraded from one to the other. The expansion packs for ultimate are slightly more expensive than for instrument for the same reason (higher resolution)

Thanks mattiasnyc for opening this thread. Never knew these existed and have always walked my own foley at my studio or other Foley rooms, but this is a game changer. Since foley cost soooooo much time and money and take a huge chunk from the budget (or lack there of).

From all the videos and research, seems the Edwars Foley with a Midi KB is the best choice?

What are the competitors?

Okay, so the "Edward Ultimate SUITE" has everything the "Edward Foleyart Instrument" has plus more?

for the midi, I was looking at their Native Instruments KOMPLETE KONTROL S25, but not sure if I'd be comfortable using a ribbon instead of jog wheels for the pitch/mod. So maybe the M-Audio Oxygen 25 IV?
Old 30th April 2018
  #15
I used to virtually walk and cut all the foley for Netflix's Trollhunters and How to Train Your Dragon animated shows. MIDI foley is quite common in cartoons and animated shows.

I was in contact with the people that make Edward. They offered good support and conversation on their product. Their instrument looks well thought out and I'm sure it works great. The reason I didn't go that was is because they have no means of using custom samples with their instrument. For years I've just built my own patches in Kontakt. I have a huge library of characters that I've but individual instruments for and tons of generic ones. It is quite simple and anyone interested should start there. You really just have to cut your footstep recordings into individual clips (strip silence works well for helping with this) and then map them to the keyboard. I would design a lot of custom feet for the trolls and various creatures. So having that flexibility was key for me. It takes time, but then you also know your library of feet extremely well and know where to find things. Works okay for props and other types of recordings too.

Another thing I wasn't very keen on in their instrument was that each footstep is random. So you can't really have it consistently play back the exact same. They said that most people just record to a track and edit the audio, as they would with real foley. But that wouldn't work for me in animated shows. I'd always be walking to shows that weren't finished. So while I usually knew the surface, sometimes it was just a grey color and I had to guess. So when working this way I always would record everything in MIDI clips. I'd do ALL of my editing in MIDI to get it perfect. That way when the surface is different, I can just load another instrument patch to change the surface and it would play correctly. You have to take care in setting up your instruments that all the mapping is exactly the same to get it to work this way, but when it does it really saves you.

So the prebuilt foley instruments are great and can be wonderfully useful. But there are some pros and cons to be aware of, when you dig into using them day in and out.

Hope that helps someone.
Old 30th April 2018
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Dan,

Thank for the detailed post and yes it helped plenty to grasp the pros and cons.
So correct me if I am wrong, but bur for every day talking heads films, this would work great and save a TON of time and money. However for films that have aliens, creatures, and monsters it wouldn't. Since one would have to do some serious sound designing for foley anyways.

But not being able to use custom sounds? Hmmm. Hopefully there's a future patch or fix for that.
Old 30th April 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Smith View Post
Another thing I wasn't very keen on in their instrument was that each footstep is random. So you can't really have it consistently play back the exact same.
There is now an option to change this (I don't know if it was there since you've last looked at it.) There's a little checkbox for turning off the randomness so it then triggers the same samples in order (the equivalent of turning off round-robin sample triggering for most Kontakt instruments)
Old 30th April 2018
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
Thank for the detailed post and yes it helped plenty to grasp the pros and cons.
So correct me if I am wrong, but bur for every day talking heads films, this would work great and save a TON of time and money. However for films that have aliens, creatures, and monsters it wouldn't. Since one would have to do some serious sound designing for foley anyways.
You're spot on. That has been my experience. I'm a big advocate for real foley. But unfortunately the amount of work they're getting to do is diminishing greatly with restrained budgets. So solutions like this offer a great alternative. Great for filling in holes in production rather than having nothing there, for example.

For simple stuff it can work perfectly fine and work well and is quick and fast. But unfortunately I know of a few live action big budget shows that have gone this way as well. With real foley you have to pay for a large stage and usually three people. One day of that can pay for a few days of an editor to do the work.

If you really start doing it a lot you can get quite quick with it. In my prime (ha!) I could walk an entire half hour show, cut, cleaned, organized, cut, mixed/panned and delivered in a day. But these were monsters and creatures. Walk and talk live action could be done even quicker.

With shows involving custom sounds it is great, because you can design a library of feet for the character (creature, alien, troll etc.) and then it is established and will sound the exact same from show to show. You can do the same with real foley, but they'd have to record the multiple layers every time for each episode, while I'd only have to design it once. Of course you don't get as much randomization and small differences, but it works. You know you can't beat the quality of real foley. But in truth, lots of times real foley is buried under other stuff and isn't being fully appreciated. So this works.

In practically any general effects library there's a good amount of footstep recordings. So lots of people have material to start making their own. And it is quite simple once you get used to it to make your own.

But there are also some things that can be recorded on location that just sound better than you can get on a foley stage, without requiring a lot of work in the mix. For example, walking up stairs. I've recorded a ton of footsteps going up and down stairs from a fixed mix position downstairs, with all its natural distance and reverb etc. The mixers LOVE those. Because they can put them up and it sounds like someone walking up stairs. Sounds great. Sounds real. They don't have to do anything to it. To try to get footsteps done in a few foot square to sound like they're actually going upstairs can use up a lot of the mixer's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
But not being able to use custom sounds? Hmmm. Hopefully there's a future patch or fix for that.
Of course this is a very small, niche market. So I believe at the time it was on their radar but they hadn't done it. If more people ask them for it I wouldn't be surprised if they did. But that can open up worms for a developer. Right now they have control over everything. Which I understand. But ask them about it.
Old 30th April 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
But not being able to use custom sounds? Hmmm. Hopefully there's a future patch or fix for that.
That's not something to "fix". They're selling the sounds not the engine. (Hence the expansion packs)

And as Dan said, building a Kontakt instrument is fairly easy. The hard work is recording/preparing the samples.
Old 30th April 2018
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
There is now an option to change this (I don't know if it was there since you've last looked at it.) There's a little checkbox for turning off the randomness so it then triggers the same samples in order (the equivalent of turning off round-robin sample triggering for most Kontakt instruments)
Oh that's good. That's a step in the right direction. See what I did there..

It is good to have options and for a lot of stuff would work great. I still prefer to have all the steps laid out across the keyboard so it can be performed exactly the same. Sometimes I'd see a complicated movement and have to try out a few different sequences or combinations of feet to get it sounding just right. I wouldn't be able to do that with round robin or random. Certainly wouldn't be able to trigger more than one sample, which I did a lot.

I'm sure it works great and would be perfect for a lot of people. But when this is all you do, it doesn't offer all the flexibility of a self-made instrument where you can tweak every little thing. But of course if its screwed up you only have yourself to blame. haha!
Old 30th April 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
That's not something to "fix". They're selling the sounds not the engine. (Hence the expansion packs)

And as Dan said, building a Kontakt instrument is fairly easy. The hard work is recording/preparing the samples.
Exactly. What I said above. It looks like a great package. The sounds and the engine are part of it. They've put a lot of great work into it with some cool features. But you're limited to what their package offers, just like any sound library purchase sound library. They're have been other feet libraries in the past. But this one offers a great way to quickly get good results rather than cutting them from a long recording.

I'm just offering some insight into some issues that MIGHT, might come up. But for a lot of people, might never come up.
Old 3rd May 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Does anyone have experience with both Edward and FoleyCollection?

I'd love to know what the differences are in quality and if one is more extensive than the other....
Old 4th May 2018
  #23
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingkongexchange View Post
EDWARD Foleyart Instrument: Your Virtual Foley Artist

This is nice foley instrument - however you can't beat actual Foley!
For those who share the same viewpoint..

What are the reasons (for footsteps)?
Old 4th May 2018
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
For those who share the same viewpoint..

What are the reasons (for footsteps)?
I probably don’t share your viewpoint...

Foley footsteps can (when it is working well) portray character, weight, intention, energy, urgency, tempo etc.
When you deal with productions sold to other countries (most we do are) then you also need it to fill the MNE. And for TV where I personally prefer a limited dynamic range for dialog, location feet rarely work, if for no other reason that the team is often moving as well as the actors.

But when I can use location sound footsteps that work great. Then I’ll just mute the foley of course (or not record it at all). But honestly that is quite rare.

I often sweeten studio foley with “Wild foley” or at times replace it with custom recordings to avoid static sounding feet. Foley artist, stage size and construction of course always have a huge impact on the sound and how it can be recorded.

Oops, sorry, long early morning post.
Old 4th May 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
I probably don’t share your viewpoint...

Foley footsteps can (when it is working well) portray character, weight, intention, energy, urgency, tempo etc.
When you deal with productions sold to other countries (most we do are) then you also need it to fill the MNE. And for TV where I personally prefer a limited dynamic range for dialog, location feet rarely work, if for no other reason that the team is often moving as well as the actors.

But when I can use location sound footsteps that work great. Then I’ll just mute the foley of course (or not record it at all). But honestly that is quite rare.

I often sweeten studio foley with “Wild foley” or at times replace it with custom recordings to avoid static sounding feet. Foley artist, stage size and construction of course always have a huge impact on the sound and how it can be recorded.

Oops, sorry, long early morning post.

sorry i didnt understand. you like or dont like finger foley?
The questions is towards finger/sample foley vs real foley.
Old 4th May 2018
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
sorry i didnt understand. you like or dont like finger foley?
The questions is towards finger/sample foley vs real foley.
Aha, I misunderstood...
I thought you meant that you didn’t like foley feet. Stupid me.
I really don’t care how the sounds are created as long as it is a great addition to the soundtrack. But a good foley artist will outperform most finger wackers IMO. But they need a good room to do so.
Old 8th May 2018
  #27
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
Aha, I misunderstood...
I thought you meant that you didn’t like foley feet. Stupid me.
I really don’t care how the sounds are created as long as it is a great addition to the soundtrack. But a good foley artist will outperform most finger wackers IMO. But they need a good room to do so.
in terms of footsteps... how would they outperfom the finger foley?
Old 8th May 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
in terms of footsteps... how would they outperfom the finger foley?
How?
Endlessly variable surfaces, mic positions, mic selection, actual movement in relation to the microphone and not to forget the difference between a actual foley performance and pressing a few keys on a keyboard.
Compare this to a limited number of samples (yes you can have many samples).

The difference is huge if you have great foleyartist and a good studio.

If you only have a mediocre studio or a inexperienced artist the difference is not quite as dramatic.

But I too use samples from time to time, I’m no Puritan but I do know what I prefer for sure.
Old 8th May 2018
  #29
Lives for gear
 

I 'hate' to quote myself.....;

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Does anyone have experience with both Edward and FoleyCollection?

I'd love to know what the differences are in quality and if one is more extensive than the other....
Old 9th May 2018
  #30
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
How?
Endlessly variable surfaces, mic positions, mic selection, actual movement in relation to the microphone and not to forget the difference between a actual foley performance and pressing a few keys on a keyboard.
Compare this to a limited number of samples (yes you can have many samples).

The difference is huge if you have great foleyartist and a good studio.

If you only have a mediocre studio or a inexperienced artist the difference is not quite as dramatic.

But I too use samples from time to time, I’m no Puritan but I do know what I prefer for sure.
oki, the surface, mic position and selection is doable in kontakt.
maybe movement in mic with scripting .and the obvious million variables..

as for the actual foley performance... what exactly would be different?
Or what do you consider a "performance"?
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump