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Recommendation for "software foley"? Keyboard Controllers
Old 9th May 2018
  #31
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dr.sound's Avatar
 

The majority of you have never heard great Foley feet.
The finest feet in the business is this man:

Dan O'Connell - IMDb

He was my neighbor next door to "The Dub Stage" where he worked at
"One Step Up".
I heard and watched him many times.
The best.
If you want a library to sound good then get the best!
The library is not it!
Old 9th May 2018
  #32
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Fredo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post

as for the actual foley performance... what exactly would be different?
Or what do you consider a "performance"?

The intensity & smoothness of the steps is something that is nearly impossble to recreate with finger-foley. People all walk in a different way, they turn corners in a different way, they sound different when the walk slowly, or fast, when there is urgency involved, when they are happy or sad.

Walking steps is a performance, which is very hard to recreate by the use of pre-recored samples. You might get away with finger foley for one character, in a couple of scenes, it simply doesn't work for all characters in all scenes.

Real footsteps add life to the performance, finger foley sucks the life out of a performance.

Just my 2 cents....
(Having build a Footsteps Sampler myself -8 years ago- which have been used on tons of animated series)

Fredo
Temple Of Tune
Belgium
Old 2nd October 2018
  #33
Gear Head
 

Krotos Reformer Pro

It seems, that almost no one is using Krotos Reformer Pro?.. really confusing, almost no response about this software here on Gearslutz.

Demoing it right now, I like the intuitive way one can trigger sounds and blend / morph between 4 libraries of your choice. On my system it appears to be CPU hungry though.

You can add your own libraries or sounds-turned-in-libraries as well.

On the other hand there is Tovusound Edward. You cannot add your stuff there - too bad - , but in comparison to Reformer Pro it appears to be a bit more predictable / precise for Foley stuff...

So right now I'm still considering...
Old 2nd October 2018
  #34
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I have reformer. I have just started using it for some occasional Foley sweetening. But I’m just starting out. It seems pretty darn smart for that type of work.
Old 2nd October 2018
  #35
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
I have reformer. I have just started using it for some occasional Foley sweetening. But I’m just starting out. It seems pretty darn smart for that type of work.
Hi Erik, yes indeed it seems to be smart and innovative.

I'd like to understand the principles Reformer Pro is following when it switches between sound files - it has to be something in the way Reformer is "mapping" the sounds internally.

I wonder if the algorithms are smart enough, to avoid any effects of repeating - say, if you are triggering a footstep library with dynamically more or less equal signals - tapping or whatever - is there something like "round robin" kind of logic
that prevents the software to "pick up" the same sound spot it picked just before?
Old 2nd October 2018
  #36
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Girts View Post
It seems, that almost no one is using Krotos Reformer Pro?.. really confusing, almost no response about this software here on Gearslutz.

Demoing it right now, I like the intuitive way one can trigger sounds and blend / morph between 4 libraries of your choice. On my system it appears to be CPU hungry though.

You can add your own libraries or sounds-turned-in-libraries as well.

On the other hand there is Tovusound Edward. You cannot add your stuff there - too bad - , but in comparison to Reformer Pro it appears to be a bit more predictable / precise for Foley stuff...

So right now I'm still considering...
I went ahead and bought Edward Ultimate suite and the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S25 Keyboard and they work together flawlessly (even though there was a bit of hassle getting everything working on PT 11 on Mac OS 10.10.5). The whole mapping and workflow integration of these two for foley is amazing. The fact that you can use the ribbon to glide footsteps sounds from grass to wood on the fly in one take for a scene makes it very worth while.
Old 2nd October 2018
  #37
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
I went ahead and bought Edward Ultimate suite and the Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S25 Keyboard and they work together flawlessly The whole mapping and workflow integration of these two for foley is amazing.
Thank you for letting us know Sean!
Old 2nd October 2018
  #38
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
The fact that you can use the ribbon to glide footsteps sounds from grass to wood on the fly in one take for a scene makes it very worth while.
Oh I forgot to ask: is it possible to create running footsteps using Edward? I mean, are the results convincing enough?
Old 3rd October 2018
  #39
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Girts View Post
Oh I forgot to ask: is it possible to create running footsteps using Edward? I mean, are the results convincing enough?
Ironically there I am working on a film that has a character that's running and will let you know when I get to the foley. However, the keys are mapped in the software to mirror the Kontact keyboard. And there two keys for every speed, slow, med, fast. (2 keys alternate so it's not the same repetitive footsteps), also you can turn on of off velocity for more realism.

What I like about it, is that I was able to record MIDI and waveform simultaneously or either one, which give me ultimate flexibility.


In case if you haven't seen the video:

YouTube
Old 5th October 2018
  #40
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
Ironically there I am working on a film that has a character that's running and will let you know when I get to the foley.
cool! I'm very curious and looking forward to hear about your experience, thanks!
Old 7th November 2018
  #41
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Smith View Post
The reason I didn't go that was is because they have no means of using custom samples with their instrument. For years I've just built my own patches in Kontakt. I have a huge library of characters that I've but individual instruments for and tons of generic ones. It is quite simple and anyone interested should start there.
Fellow DWA series editor here. We didn't use sampled/software foley, but we would have characters and things we would design certain footstep sweeteners for and such. We would get the foley guys to record the surface, and we would then go character by character and use a drum sample replacer loaded with the steps we created for that character to print down the sweeteners specific to them. I know not exactly what the OP was asking about, but just another solution to the issue of not having custom samples I thought I would share.
Old 7th November 2018
  #42
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglesworth View Post
We would get the foley guys to record the surface, and we would then go character by character and use a drum sample replacer loaded with the steps we created for that character to print down the sweeteners specific to them.
Great idea! I thought about that too, but was never sure enough, if a drum replacer would proceed with several / random / various / not-repeating samples as replacement... because I never had a drum replacer so far... May I ask which one you guys used?

I'm very near to go on and buy a Towusound Edward Ultimate... but I also build my experimental Kontakt instrument right now - with speciffic recorded steps on it (for this particular animation film I'm working on) as someone suggested earlier. There is great free Kontakt script around on net; using it allows to avoid repeating of samples / steps.
Old 7th November 2018
  #43
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Reformer Pro is pretty neat for that, but it won't give you as exact control as a sampler of course.
But as a sweetener tool for foley I'd say it is unbeatable.
As a means to replace the foley entirely, not as much.
Old 7th November 2018
  #44
Gear Head
 

Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
Reformer Pro is pretty neat for that, but it won't give you as exact control as a sampler of course.
Exactly as Erik said. I tried it shortly when it has more realistic price (40% off guess) for some time. After demoing, finally I didn't bought it though.

Pros:

- innovative and promising;
- The included Leopard (or tiger) library was very convincing and fun to work with;

Contra:

- I don't remember any situation I needed a Leopard sfx in the last 20 years (sadly... ; )
- I'd say it works well with "inlay", stretched type of sounds (like that Leopard) but is not suitable for short, precise sounds with pronounced attack (like Footsteps are). In this case I could imagine a drum replacer working much more efficient
- the principle how Reformer Pro is "picking up" this or that particular sample or spot from my own libraries I tried to sync with it, is rather unclear for me and I got no clue how to make it sound the way I'd like to;
- it was heavy on CPU (pretty solid i7 multi-core here, coupled with Nuendo 8).
Old 7th November 2018
  #45
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Girts View Post
Great idea! I thought about that too, but was never sure enough, if a drum replacer would proceed with several / random / various / not-repeating samples as replacement... because I never had a drum replacer so far... May I ask which one you guys used?
We used Drumagog. It has a function where you can load several samples in and group them in certain volume thresholds. So if the step is hard/loud, it will pull randomly from the loud group. If it's a softer, quieter step, it will pull randomly fro the quiet group, etc. I think you can have up to like 6 or 7 different groupings based on volumes in it. It worked really well once we got the workflow down.
Old 7th November 2018
  #46
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Edward is great. Especially in combination with custom samples it is undistinguishable from a foley artist.

Just like with foley artists, it takes talent and skill to do it well. But in the right hands, it can sound better and be more flexible (and cheaper) than a foley artist.

And the software will only improve in the future.
Old 13th November 2018
  #47
Gear Addict
 

I own Edward Ultimate. It’s fantastic for MIDI walking foley. I’d still take a real foley artist any day, but it’s saved my butt more than once.
Old 13th November 2018
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
Edward is great. Especially in combination with custom samples it is undistinguishable from a foley artist.
Hi Jamie! Have you ever considered Foley Collection too?
I'm vacillating between Edward and Foley Collection right now, but it seems, that the last update on Foley Collection's website happened 4 years ago...
Old 13th November 2018
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inglesworth View Post
We used Drumagog. It has a function where you can load several samples in and group them in certain volume thresholds.
Thank you for tip!

Demoing it right now. It seems to work well with solide samples / impulses, but if there are - say - footsteps on gravel with several smaller transients, then you have to tweak the sensitivity of the triggering signal a lot, or it results in "false starts" quite often.
Old 13th November 2018
  #50
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by introvert View Post
I own Edward Ultimate. It’s fantastic for MIDI walking foley. I’d still take a real foley artist any day, but it’s saved my butt more than once.
For me the discussion isn't about it replacing a foley artist by doing foley yourself with a sampler.

It is about replacing the "old school" foley artist by someone who is fantastic at doing foley with software.

Doing it yourself is like doing "real" foley yourself, you probably won't get great results because you lack the skill and experience.


So all I'm saying is there are people out there that are specialising in it and can do it as well as a foley artist. I'm definitely not one of them, but I know people who are
Old 13th November 2018
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
For me the discussion isn't about it replacing a foley artist by doing foley yourself with a sampler.

It is about replacing the "old school" foley artist by someone who is fantastic at doing foley with software.

Doing it yourself is like doing "real" foley yourself, you probably won't get great results because you lack the skill and experience.


So all I'm saying is there are people out there that are specialising in it and can do it as well as a foley artist. I'm definitely not one of them, but I know people who are
Needs proof. Please send.

The ONLY reason why people use these "machines" is because they can't afford a foley artist not because the result is the same. Period. IMO that is.

A simple piece of cloth alone can be handled in infinite ways but it needs to be done in a meaningful way to picture not just by pressing buttons on a keyboard with some randomisation added.
Extrapolate that to even two other props and you are beyond the biggest sampler man can make just to cover a finite amount of variations of what a foley artist would do with them.
Old 13th November 2018
  #52
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Needs proof. Please send.

The ONLY reason why people use these "machines" is because they can't afford a foley artist not because the result is the same. Period. IMO that is.

A simple piece of cloth alone can be handled in infinite ways but it needs to be done in a meaningful way to picture not just by pressing buttons on a keyboard with some randomisation added.
Extrapolate that to even two other props and you are beyond the biggest sampler man can make just to cover a finite amount of variations of what a foley artist would do with them.
I'm talking about footsteps (which is what Edward is mostly about)
Old 15th November 2018
  #53
Gear Head
 

UVI Walker

Seems to be a new one out that looks pretty similar to Edward
Walker - Footstep Foley Designer

Intro price is enticing.

Anyone have thoughts?
Old 15th November 2018
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkfaudio View Post
Seems to be a new one out that looks pretty similar to Edward
Walker - Footstep Foley Designer

Intro price is enticing.

Anyone have thoughts?
After watching the demo video my thoughts:

Those are exactly the kind of steps where the director goes: "hey, could be lower the Foley please?....yes a little more....more....hm...how does it sound if you muted them?"

But seriously other than for a quick animation where it needs to be over the top I wouldn't use it.
Old 16th November 2018
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
After watching the demo video my thoughts:

Those are exactly the kind of steps where the director goes: "hey, could be lower the Foley please?....yes a little more....more....hm...how does it sound if you muted them?"

But seriously other than for a quick animation where it needs to be over the top I wouldn't use it.
I agree, the demo was less than impressive. I own Edward Ultimate but it is a last resort when there is no money for foley. I feel like in the not too distant future there will be more variation in steps and more natural scuffs with finger foley but it still doesn't come close to the real deal.

Somebody mentioned using custom samples with Edward - is that possible?
Old 20th November 2018
  #56
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Mac View Post
Edward is great. Especially in combination with custom samples it is undistinguishable from a foley artist.
Hi! Are you adding your custom samples to Edward "by hand", just placing them one-by-one in parallel with Edward's track?
Old 21st November 2018
  #57
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Jamie Mac's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girts View Post
Hi! Are you adding your custom samples to Edward "by hand", just placing them one-by-one in parallel with Edward's track?
Custom sample recordings are put into new kontakt instruments.
Old 22nd November 2018
  #58
Here for the gear
 

A heads up to anyone else like me who has been eyeing the Edward Ultimate Suite: they're currently running a black Friday sale so until the 26th it's $279 instead of $399.
Old 23rd November 2018
  #59
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Krotos Reformer.
Reformer - Revolutionary Audio Plugin for Sound Design | Krotos

And weaponizer for weapons!
Old 23rd November 2018
  #60
Gear Nut
 

Edward Foley Instrument is now $34 and Edward Ultimate Suite $279. Speaking about footsteps only, how much better is Ultimate? It costs almost ten times more, but maybe the difference in quality / features / usability isn’t that big?
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