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The New Yamaha MMP1 Monitor Device
Old 17th September 2017
  #1
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The New Yamaha MMP1 Monitor Device

At yesterdays Mix Magazine/ Sony Pictures "Mix Sound For Film" event I had a private demo of the new Yamaha MMP1 Studio Monitor Management System.

It is very well thought out, easily set to customize, loaded with features and
should be added to recent choices for monitoring in 5.1,7,1 and Immersive to your studio.
Here is a link:
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proa...mp1/index.html

Check it out.
Old 18th September 2017
  #2
Gear Head
 

I saw this unit on demo at IBC, it is quite cool.

It has Dante support & Analog & AES inputs & outputs.
You can have it with a redundant PSU (external)
It is an optimal box for rooms, which have monitors with AES/EBU inputs. It is also great for Dante installations.
It also nicely fills the role of a proper monitoring section for Nuage systems.

Currently it is the first fully featured "All in one monitor management system", that lets you completely get rid of an USB/PCI/Digilink audio interface, and go straight in via Dante DVS, if someone ever wished to do so. Yes you can do that with JBL Intonato, by buying an Blu/Dante bridge, but that is a messy set up in my opinion.

However there are some other exciting developments for this type of product, from other players, so stay tuned.
Old 18th September 2017
  #3
Deleted User
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The MMP1 had me interested with its support for wider formats (i.e. NHK 22.2), but the Digital Audio Denmark SPQ card for the AX32 (and MTRX apparently) may have steered me in another direction. Perhaps a demo of both is in order.
Old 18th September 2017
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted User View Post
The MMP1 had me interested with its support for wider formats (i.e. NHK 22.2), but the Digital Audio Denmark SPQ card for the AX32 (and MTRX apparently) may have steered me in another direction. Perhaps a demo of both is in order.
If you can afford the DAD AX 32/ MTRX ( I have a DAD AX32 and DX32) then
go that route. I am very happy with mine, but for everyone else looking for a flexible monitor, Room eq, multi format box that is Dante then this would be up near the top of the list.
Old 18th September 2017
  #5
Any info on the price of the Yammy box?
Old 18th September 2017
  #6
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I have been unable to obtain final pricing information, only an estimated November 2017 release date.
Old 19th September 2017
  #7
Gear Head
 

Yes, monitor tuning functionality in DAD/AVID MTRX systems is one of the exciting developments. It is pretty much a no brainer for those, who have an AX32 or MTRX unit.

Price wise, MMP 1 is set to go against Intonato24. MMP1 probably will be higher due to Dante being built-in (=Brooklyn chip cost & licensing fee)
Old 19th September 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven1145 View Post
Any info on the price of the Yammy box?
The price I was told is around $3600.00 ( price not firmly set yet) .
Old 19th September 2017
  #9
Thanks Marti!
Old 20th September 2017
  #10
Here for the gear
 

It looks like a really nice unit.

If only you could control it with CB Electronics TMC-1, that would be a good match. Hopefully this will happen.
Old 11th January 2018
  #11
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Janus's Avatar
 

Just had a MMP-1 as a demo for a few days. Really like the way the matrix works. In our "big" stage we have a MTRX as part in the monitoring route via a RMU, but I'm not a big fan of the DAD-Man matrix. Yamaha did this a lot better.

A hardware remote would be killer indeed.

Dante is new for me. If I understand correctly, is the minimal system latency 4 ms?
Old 12th January 2018
  #12
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Have an MMP-1 in use for some time now.
I can only say that it's s great machine which sounds *very* good.

Fredo
Temple Of Tune
Belgium
Old 11th March 2018
  #13
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I'm confused with this device;

- there's no limiter available on the speaker outputs;
- bass management is restricted to a fixed crossover at 80 Hz, with no selection of frequencies or slope;
- there is no x-over functionality, eg. for a custom 3 way system.

Am I wrong to assume this is a live // PA // movie theater device?
Or is it only to be used in a pro studio environment?
Old 11th March 2018
  #14
I quite don't understand how do you feed with MMP1 a bi-amp speakers (requiring at least 9 channels for bi-amp LCR 5.1 system)?
There are only 8 analog outputs on dB25 connector.
The price will go higher with additional Dante Audio I/O to Analogue or EBU to analogue converters (at least).
Not very attractive IMHO and the DAD32 or MTRX will be more or less in the same price league but without the need of HD I/O interface.
Old 11th March 2018
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
I quite don't understand how do you feed with MMP1 a bi-amp speakers (requiring at least 9 channels for bi-amp LCR 5.1 system)?
There are only 8 analog outputs on dB25 connector.
The price will go higher with additional Dante Audio I/O to Analogue or EBU to analogue converters (at least).
Not very attractive IMHO and the DAD32 or MTRX will be more or less in the same price league but without the need of HD I/O interface.
Isn't the MTRX around 4000€ in the basic version without a single analogue out, no EQ etc. with 16 analogue outs and the EQ card (not yet available?) how much will it be? 6k? 7k? more?

hm...
Old 11th March 2018
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Isn't the MTRX around 4000€ in the basic version without a single analogue out, no EQ etc. with 16 analogue outs and the EQ card (not yet available?) how much will it be? 6k? 7k? more?

hm...
Avid HD I/O digital $2000 +Yamaha MMP1 $3800 + Ferrofish A32 Dante $3500 =$9300

or

Avid MTRX $4500 + 2x DA MTRX analogue out cards $4400 = $8900
Old 12th March 2018
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgoorevich View Post
Avid HD I/O digital $2000 +Yamaha MMP1 $3800 + Ferrofish A32 Dante $3500 =$9300

or

Avid MTRX $4500 + 2x DA MTRX analogue out cards $4400 = $8900
yes, but then you still don't have any EQ in your MTRX without the EQ card.

For a simple setup you can go

DVS (30$) -> Yamaha MMP1.

For a complex one neither the Yamaha nor the Intonato will be flexible enough.
Old 18th March 2018
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
I'm confused with this device;

- there's no limiter available on the speaker outputs;
- bass management is restricted to a fixed crossover at 80 Hz, with no selection of frequencies or slope;
- there is no x-over functionality, eg. for a custom 3 way system.

Am I wrong to assume this is a live // PA // movie theater device?
Or is it only to be used in a pro studio environment?
Partly answering my own question; bass management is not as restricted as I thought it was. Turns out there are many possible settings here: IIR of FIR filters, X-over frequency selection and curve selection. Nice.

What about limiters though, can anyone chime in if that function is at all present on the MMP-1?
Old 3rd April 2018
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

I like this box and will be building my new 7.1 ATC room around it.
It ticks all the boxes for my use.
Will be using two protools HD macs with dante accelerator cards.
I have absolutely no experience with network audio but also have a specialist who has being using it in hairy situations for years.
I like that it has a redundant psu, redundant network, seems very flexible with downmixes, bass management, master clock, lipsync delay,talkback with GPI and gets rid of the avid interfaces.
I'll be losing satellite functionality (HD hardware only) but running videoslave 3 on mtc saves from having to reencode everything to dnx anyway.
I suppose the converters are good enough and can always change if necessary.

I really wish it had a proper hardware remote, iPad doesn't really do it for me, but apart from that I'm sold
Old 4th April 2018
  #20
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interesting...

for those on a budget, you might have a look at the yamaha dme64n with the icp1 remote: it was NOT designed as a speaker conroller, but as a freely programmable routing/matrix/switcher with tons of dsp. runs at max 96khz, has four 16 channel slots, so you can do 64i/o in bank of 16 channels in almost any format. i use mine with 16 madi i/o, 16 dante i/o and with 2 lake cards (16 aes i/o) to drive 14 outputs, all with x-over, eq, delay etc. wasn't cheap either at the time, but can be found for ridiculous prices nowadays.
Old 5th April 2018
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
interesting...

for those on a budget, you might have a look at the yamaha dme64n with the icp1 remote: it was NOT designed as a speaker conroller, but as a freely programmable routing/matrix/switcher with tons of dsp. runs at max 96khz, has four 16 channel slots, so you can do 64i/o in bank of 16 channels in almost any format. i use mine with 16 madi i/o, 16 dante i/o and with 2 lake cards (16 aes i/o) to drive 14 outputs, all with x-over, eq, delay etc. wasn't cheap either at the time, but can be found for ridiculous prices nowadays.
The DME 64 costs approx. the double of a MMP1 or Intonato. More so if you add MADI cards. The "cost effective" version is the DME24 (I have those in 2 studios), which can indeed handle all speaker calibration needs but is not user friendly, even with the remote (in my opinion).
Old 5th April 2018
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven1145 View Post
The DME 64 costs approx. the double of a MMP1 or Intonato. More so if you add MADI cards. The "cost effective" version is the DME24 (I have those in 2 studios), which can indeed handle all speaker calibration needs but is not user friendly, even with the remote (in my opinion).
i agree on all - except maybe that the icp1 allows for quite a lot of control; 6 buttons on 4 layers and a knob/wheel isn't that bad...

you are right on prices: it's just since installations got rid of their dme's that the prices dropped massively and the units became much more affordable (dme24n can be found for around 500.--)

i'm using the said dme64n in my studio (or in the main drive rack on large festivals) and a dme24n with a lake card in my smaller room (and again live with smaller systems).

one feature that i especially like in the dme processors is the graphic representation of the speaker processors/crossovers with separate displays of both frequency and phase!

enough on dme - waiting to see/try this new controller!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 5th April 2018 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 28th June 2018
  #23
Here for the gear
 

People here might be interested in these latest developments.

1) It looks like the Yamaha MMP1 is getting a hardware remote in the form of the TMC-1 from CB Electronics. Check out the link from Colin's Blog.

Keep in Sync: TMC-1 and Yamaha MMP1


2) CB Electronics are now shipping the I-Mon Immersive monitor Controller.

CB Electronics: I-Mon Immersive Monitor Controller
Old 9th August 2018
  #24
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The MMP1 can only do 30 ms of latency whyyyyyyy
Old 9th August 2018
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
The MMP1 can only do 30 ms of latency whyyyyyyy
30ms of latency?! That a huge figure for such a processor. That's almost a whole frame. Should be around a couple of samples really. Competing products are at around 3ms of latency. 30ms seems far off scale. Are you sure about this?
Old 9th August 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanuel23 View Post
The MMP1 can only do 30 ms of latency whyyyyyyy
Linear phase (fir) filters I guess?
Old 9th August 2018
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
Linear phase (fir) filters I guess?
Yeah, but even processors with linear phase filters like the Xilica XD series only have 1.5ms of progagation delay...

hm...
Old 9th August 2018
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
30ms of latency?! That a huge figure for such a processor. That's almost a whole frame. Should be around a couple of samples really. Competing products are at around 3ms of latency. 30ms seems far off scale. Are you sure about this?
We would be using this as a hi quality "Live & Movie room" public speaker processor. Our delay line requirements within the room are 9 ms for the first row of 4 ceiling speakers, 20 ms for the second row of 4 ceiling speakers, and about 38 ms for the third (= outside) row of 2 speakers.

Other options we are considering are the Blu-100 and QSC 110f. My main issue with these is audio / convertor / processor quality. For example, these are set in terms of sampling frequency (48k). Also they have restricted io (no aes/ebu etc.)

Other issues with common PA speaker processors: programming the Blu system for example only works on PC - within the room we have Mac's right now.

The MMP1's major drawback for us is the delay being restricted to 30 ms. I do believe there's an additional 50 ms available of delay on the channel strips, but I don't know exactly how that would work.

I'm guessing the delay is limited to 30 ms because Yamaha wants to deliver this latency to 32(+4?) outputs at 192k. I'm pretty sure though this could be upped in software for a 96k environment, so it's just a software limit in relation to available RAM is what i'm suspecting. 96k is what I'm aiming for here over 10 to 12 outputs, I'm sure the processing power is there for that, but the software is limited.

Thanks for thinking along though.

Cheers
Emanuel

Last edited by Emanuel23; 9th August 2018 at 08:15 PM..
Old 9th August 2018
  #29
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I think the 30ms latency that is being talked about is a compensation delay for video latency. i.e. to improve lipsync in post environments. 30ms is not much for that. We are around 100 - 120ms here.

Randall


Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
30ms of latency?! That a huge figure for such a processor. That's almost a whole frame. Should be around a couple of samples really. Competing products are at around 3ms of latency. 30ms seems far off scale. Are you sure about this?
Old 9th August 2018
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
I think the 30ms latency that is being talked about is a compensation delay for video latency. i.e. to improve lipsync in post environments. 30ms is not much for that. We are around 100 - 120ms here.

Randall
Ah, OK. In my world "latency" usually refers to the time a signal needs from input to output (system latency). So yes, 30ms of maximum speaker delay is a bit lame.

However there's an additional 50ms of lip sync delay mentioned in the specs sheet but that's obviously across all channels at the same time.

I'll repeat what I recommended earlier: Don't buy a box with a fixed architecture guys. You'll get stuck very quickly....
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