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Nuendo 8 for post? DAW Software
Old 2nd August 2017
  #1
Gear Nut
 
jt916's Avatar
 

Question Nuendo 8 for post?

I hope some of you folks here can sort this out for me,

The new boss (music composer back ground) just told me to change the entire workflow of our media company from Avid Protools for post audio to Nuendo 8. Our company handle both TV programs and feature films in stereo and surround sound in Asia.

His reasoning is that Warner Brothers sound in LA has changed from Protools to Nuendo for post because Avid Protools has too many problems. Well, I hope some of you here help me confirm this because I am not in LA and don't know anyone there to confirm it ????


I don't hate Nuendo DAW and actually, love the way thing setup for music production but for post production?

Regardless whichever work is fine but I want to argue against taking risk like that especially re-training the staffs...especially me.

Thanks.
Old 2nd August 2017
  #2
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt916 View Post
I hope some of you folks here can sort this out for me,

The new boss (music composer back ground) just told me to change the entire workflow of our media company from Avid Protools for post audio to Nuendo 8. Our company handle both TV programs and feature films in stereo and surround sound in Asia.

His reasoning is that Warner Brothers sound in LA has changed from Protools to Nuendo for post because Avid Protools has too many problems. Well, I hope some of you here help me confirm this because I am not in LA and don't know anyone there to confirm it ????


I don't hate Nuendo DAW and actually, love the way thing setup for music production but for post production?

Regardless whichever work is fine but I want to argue against taking risk like that especially re-training the staffs...especially me.

Thanks.
as you are waiting for someone directly from WB .. here is there sound site .. you can see some pics of the suites and maybe determine what they are using ...

Sound Editorial Suites | Warner Bros. Sound

and there is a phone number !!!
Old 2nd August 2017
  #3
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dr.sound's Avatar
 

Your boss is wrong!
I was at WB on Friday.
They are installing 3 new S6 's
Two of them are 80 Fader systems.
The whole facility is definitely Pro Tools.
I saw boxes and boxes of new Pro Tools
Systems.
Old 2nd August 2017
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt916 View Post
His reasoning is that Warner Brothers sound in LA has changed from Protools to Nuendo for post because Avid Protools has too many problems. Well, I hope some of you here help me confirm this because I am not in LA and don't know anyone there to confirm it ????
Your boss is very wrong. At least for the re-recording stages. They are very much Pro Tools. I'm in/out of Stage 10 and 9 quite a lot during the year and they are both Pro Tools.

(the website isn't quite up-to-date, btw)
Old 2nd August 2017
  #5
Lives for gear
 

You can use whatever you want, but will find that in LA anyhow the talent pool of folks you could hire to do the work is pretty PT-centric. Even if you/boss like Nuendo I'd do a little research on how often you'd need to move sessions to/from PT collaborators and if you do how much time and angst will be involved...
Old 2nd August 2017
  #6
Lives for gear
 

I would maybe give it a couple of months before moving to Nuendo version 8 specifically, because I've seen more than a few reports of instability and plugin processing bugs.

Nuendo 7 however is very nice.
Old 2nd August 2017
  #7
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post

(the website isn't quite up-to-date, btw)
the pics all look like PT ... except for one but hard to tell ... and the Poor WB must be hurting for money if they cannot take a few pics and update their website .. LOL

you guys rock for helping this poor soul that lives behind the Orange Curtain !!!
Old 2nd August 2017
  #8
Yup our episodic mixes at WB, and it's 100% PT.
Old 2nd August 2017
  #9
Lives for gear
As folks point out, PT appears to be the common denominator in LA. This might not have anything to do with the inherent qualities of the program -- or lack of them -- and more because it's what everybody else uses.

FWIW:

1) I used to run a proprietary DAW (custom o/s, custom controller, etc). It was an expensive system but worth it in terms of speed and power, and I and was doing pretty well with it. But the manufacturer slowed development down for other corporate reasons, and I had to upgrade to a more modern system: PT or Nuendo. Money wasn't the main consideration; more a question of what would let me work as quickly and flexibly as I was used to.
I made appointments with product managers for both, had them walk me through the systems, and compared. Each had its advantages. Then I sat with their expert operators and called a few edits that I knew I could do quickly on the older proprietary system. Nuendo was much faster, and much more customizable. So I bought a big, tricked-out Nuendo rig (with controller, external DSP, the works)... and a much smaller PT one so I could turn my Nuendo OMFs into PT Sessions, for the benefit of studios that didn't have the knack.
In the years since, I've seen the two programs continue to leapfrog. Nuendo has had post-oriented features for years that PT is just getting around to... and vice versa. I'm on N8 now, stopped upgrading PT at v11, and am happy. So are my clients. YMMV.

Bear in mind: I'm in Boston, and run a specialized boutique.

2) While I was using the proprietary DAW, my son was assistant CE at a big NPR multi-station complex with four production rooms. He saw me cutting audio features for clients, saw how much faster it was than the PT they were using, and asked for info. The DAW's product manager put together a proposal. It was obvious the productivity gains would be worth the investment. My son took it to the station management. GM: "Yes, that system is probably better for us. But we can hire PT operators fresh out of music schools, don't have to pay them too much, and when they move on, we can find replacements easily. We'll stay with PT."

That may also be a consideration for you.
Old 3rd August 2017
  #10
jt916, you will find a few guys here on GS that operate facilities running Nuendo (myself included). However, even if it would be an interesting twist, I highly doubt WB has moved to Nuendo as it wouldn't make any sense in the Hollywood blockbuster film market as everyone there is on PT.
If you guys are based in LA you might want to get more info before doing a radical change like that (and this coming from a guy sitting in front of 2 Nuendo rigs mixing a movie).
Old 5th August 2017
  #11
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt916 View Post
I hope some of you folks here can sort this out for me,

The new boss (music composer back ground) just told me to change the entire workflow of our media company from Avid Protools for post audio to Nuendo 8. Our company handle both TV programs and feature films in stereo and surround sound in Asia.

His reasoning is that Warner Brothers sound in LA has changed from Protools to Nuendo for post because Avid Protools has too many problems. Well, I hope some of you here help me confirm this because I am not in LA and don't know anyone there to confirm it ????


I don't hate Nuendo DAW and actually, love the way thing setup for music production but for post production?

Regardless whichever work is fine but I want to argue against taking risk like that especially re-training the staffs...especially me.

Thanks.
He's lying
Old 5th August 2017
  #12
Gear Nut
 
jt916's Avatar
 

Thank you so much guys, I got the picture (literally)
Old 5th August 2017
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jt916 View Post
I don't hate Nuendo DAW and actually, love the way thing setup for music production but for post production?

[...]

Regardless whichever work is fine but I want to argue against taking risk like that especially re-training the staffs...especially me.
I suggest you get an eLicenser dongle from your local music store, or online, and download the 60 day fully working demoversion of Nuendo 8.

Personally I prefer working in Nuendo, but I've kept my Pro Tools HD 12 license just in case I get an AAF-file exported from Media Composer that don't open properly in Nuendo.

Both DAWs have their pros and cons.

The clip based effects processing in Nuendo 8 is a game-changer and can save you a lot of work time.

The built-in ADR functionality is another great feature, if you do ADR. A remote real-time version is in the making, which will make it easy to connect remotely with an actor and do ADR in real-time - with a very nice workflow.

The built-in Reconformer can really save time when you get (yet another) updated EDL-file.

Batch exporting is another great feature, so is the Network Collaboration functionality.

Steinberg has announce that Automatic Speech Alignment will soon be implemented, and if it works like it should, then it will also be a potential time saver.

I find Nuendo much better for doing user customization, short keys etc, and different user profiles can be saved.


Pro Tools also has a lot of great features, as you already know being a PT user.


Nuendo is definitely a post production tool, and a very good one. Download the demoversion and find out for yourself. ;-)

Well worth a good try!


Just my two cents
Fred
Old 6th August 2017
  #14
Happy N7/N8 user here.. add on a few slate ravens and its humming along well. though N8 isn't yet supported so N7 for the moment.
But still i do custom composing mostly. also use bitwig and ableton too.. If i had the $$ nuage would be very attractive.. especilly if you get into dealing with game audio stuff. Steinberg is really positioning themselves to that market right now.
Adding in a bunch of tools to work with prepping game audio and interconnect with wwise.
Attached Thumbnails
Nuendo 8 for post?-musicstation.jpg  
Old 7th August 2017
  #15
Make sure you keep a license of PT for conversions, import, and exports. Its really easy to go back and forth now. Frankly, it doesn't matter what daw you are on as long as you deliver an outstanding mix, on time, with all the required stems.

That said: Nuendo is a fantastic DAW. There is no product on the market that can touch its ADR Taker system or its video game integration platform. Post production is a breeze and mixing in multi output formats is native with lots of useful output options - 5.1, 7.1, atmos, ambisonics [games], etc...

Good luck with your migration.
Cheers,
jeremiah
Old 7th August 2017
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiahslovarp View Post
Make sure you keep a license of PT for conversions, import, and exports. Its really easy to go back and forth now. Frankly, it doesn't matter what daw you are on as long as you deliver an outstanding mix, on time, with all the required stems.

That said: Nuendo is a fantastic DAW. There is no product on the market that can touch its ADR Taker system or its video game integration platform. Post production is a breeze and mixing in multi output formats is native with lots of useful output options - 5.1, 7.1, atmos, ambisonics [games], etc...

Good luck with your migration.
Cheers,
jeremiah
I can only second that. We just moved to N8 from N7 and skipped PT years ago. However, in the - very traditional - Hollywood area they might stay with ProTools for a very long time. Outside of the Hollywood ecosystem, there is a lot of change towards Nuendo. The feature set is simply the most dedicated for post-production, while PT is a more generic software that can ALSO be used for post.
Old 7th August 2017
  #17
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I don't think one is better than the other.
When you have to rely on freelancers coming in, you might have a bit more trouble finding people who are very familiar with Nuendo, but that depends on your location.

There are some things where Nuendo is behind (video export/field recorder workflow) and there are as many things lacking in ProTools. (ADR toolkit/reconform/…)

We are running Nuendo in 4 rooms, of which 2 are equipped with Nuage Controllers. Couldn't be happier. And I don't hear any complaints from the freelancers either.


Fredo Gevaert
Temple Of Tune
Belgium
Old 7th August 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
Oliver.Lucas's Avatar
Nuendo 8 has been officially released, but I think it is not useable at the moment, there are too many issues for me. Nuendo 7 is really nice and I prefer it 99.5% over my PT11HD installation.
Old 7th August 2017
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver.Lucas View Post
Nuendo 8 has been officially released, but I think it is not useable at the moment, there are too many issues for me. Nuendo 7 is really nice and I prefer it 99.5% over my PT11HD installation.
I too would recommend version 7.x at the moment.
Old 7th August 2017
  #20
Go on and buy Nuendo, by all means, it's fantastic!
But I'd install 7 and start with that for now, 8 isn't out long enough and isn't stable enough at the moment to use in the wild...
Old 7th August 2017
  #21
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What I'm hearing is that both Nuendo and Pro Tools release new versions that aren't ready for prime time
Old 7th August 2017
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
What I'm hearing is that both Nuendo and Pro Tools release new versions that aren't ready for prime time
PT 12.8 is running perfectly fine. It was a small evolution over 12.7.1 and a lot of bug fixes.
If there are any issues, they are with new Atmos related functionality. So unless that's a deal with you, PT's new version is ready for prime time (and by that, it is being used right now for prime time shows and features)
Old 7th August 2017
  #23
Can't speak for PT over here, but it's pretty common sense to keep any new version, ESPECIALLY coming from Avid OR Steinberg, in the corral for 1 or 2 months before phasing it in to day to day production. Download it, get to know it, put it through it's paces, and then set it to work when the first few patches are through and the screams in the forums have petered out. Had a long and happy professional life following that maxim...
Old 7th August 2017
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
PT 12.8 is running perfectly fine. It was a small evolution over 12.7.1 and a lot of bug fixes.
If there are any issues, they are with new Atmos related functionality. So unless that's a deal with you, PT's new version is ready for prime time (and by that, it is being used right now for prime time shows and features)
I meant the initial .0 releases. Long history of problems. With both programs... I was just calling both companies out for using paying customers as testers.

And yes i always avoid updating immediately on release.
Old 8th August 2017
  #25
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I was just calling both companies out for using paying customers as testers.

The problem isn't that the manufacturer leaves testing up to the customer... it's that, with all the inter-related functions in today's DAWs, and with all the different ways users are operating the program, it's impossible to find all the bugs. Ever. So you do a careful and rigorous alpha test internally, send it to selected users for beta, keep a bugbase and fix things as they come up... but sooner or later, even the most careful companies have to bite the bullet, and ship.

It's a given that some users will surely come up with platform combinations or operations you didn't test, and there'll be breakage. So you add their experiences to the bugbase, knock those critters down, release an update... lather, rinse, and repeat.

You can help the process. If you have a problem, determine what operations triggered it, and report to the manufacturer. Don't just grouse. And don't just send an email saying "it crashed"... if you provide enough details that the manufacturer can duplicate the issue, chances are very good they'll set a programmer to fixing it.

One of my software development gurus* says "It's impossible to disprove the existence of new bugs, and promise a complicated system will be problem-free in the wild. The best you can do is design a system that makes it easy to isolate problems and fix them."

--
* - Dr Barry Blesser, fellow of the AES, considered the father of digital reverb, and still going strong. I've worked on successful DAWs and software-based broadcast equipment under him. I'm not making any claims of programming expertise here... the talent is his, getting the best out of any engineer who's willing to cooperate.
Old 8th August 2017
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
you do a careful and rigorous alpha test internally, send it to selected users for beta, keep a bugbase and fix things as they come up... but sooner or later, even the most careful companies have to bite the bullet, and ship.

It's a given that some users will surely come up with platform combinations or operations you didn't test, and there'll be breakage. So you add their experiences to the bugbase, knock those critters down, release an update... lather, rinse, and repeat.
I don't think most of the anger, or the most severe anger, comes from the odd bug that pops up during somewhat obscure usage. I think users are getting frustrated when companies release products where basic functionality is flawed, and/or especially new features.

If I'm buying a new version based on a new feature, and it doesn't take me that long to run into an issue using that new feature in a basic manner, something is clearly wrong. There really are only two possibilities; either the company knew it was faulty and released the software anyway, or it didn't really understand there was a problem. In the case of Nuendo 7's VCA functionality it looked to me as if either/both the designers and programmers actually didn't understand the error or how it was supposed to work.

That's what I think people are tired of.

In the case of N8 it seems to me that Steinberg a) didn't fully realize the extent to which the new offline processing implementation is actually not working, and b) ignored or undervalued the implication of degrading iZotope RX interaction. Both are pretty important in Nuendo.

At any rate, I think Pro Tools is great and I think Nuendo 7 is great.
Old 8th August 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
I was just calling both companies out for using paying customers as testers.

The problem isn't that the manufacturer leaves testing up to the customer... it's that, with all the inter-related functions in today's DAWs, and with all the different ways users are operating the program, it's impossible to find all the bugs. Ever. So you do a careful and rigorous alpha test internally, send it to selected users for beta, keep a bugbase and fix things as they come up... but sooner or later, even the most careful companies have to bite the bullet, and ship.
See Mattiasnyc's comment above. That's the problem I have - we're not talking minor quibbles but advertised features not working or half-baked to the point of uselesness. Because they wanted to get *something* released. So that brings us back to the advice that one shouldn't upgrade when it's fresh. Let other people do it and see what they complain about
Old 8th August 2017
  #28
Lives for gear
that brings us back to the advice that one shouldn't upgrade when it's fresh

+1. That applies to every other piece of complex software as well, from operating systems to your email handler...
Old 9th August 2017
  #29
Gear Head
 

Nuendo is a great system for post.

I think it is worth owning a copy just for the ADR taker alone.
Old 10th August 2017
  #30
Here for the gear
I have a copy of Nuendo 8 for sale.
Send me a private message if you are interested
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