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Atmos for indie films in small mixing stage
Old 26th November 2018
  #121
It must be a big fun using the upmixer to make a film soundtrack more "immersive".
There are people that would watch a movie because it is "immersive", and there are people that watch movies because of the story.
Old 26th November 2018
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
Really? You think people are all going to be sitting on the couch together with glasses and headphone on? Didn't work for 3D tv. Why would it work for audio?
Because a lot of TV is watched by people alone. And yes, a set of headphones for mom/dad/buddy+sis would have a much higher "wife acceptance factor" than a lot of surround gear that would be in view all the time.
Old 27th November 2018
  #123
Gear Nut
 
Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
There are people that would watch a movie because it is "immersive", and there are people that watch movies because of the story.
Watching movies because of the story instead of reading books...
Movies and good stories? 99% an oxymoron.
Old 27th November 2018
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter View Post
Watching movies because of the story instead of reading books...
Movies and good stories? 99% an oxymoron.
In modern English usage, "trolling" may describe the fishing technique of slowly dragging a lure or baited hook from a moving boat
Old 27th November 2018
  #125
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Someone gave me a hint about an interesting presentation at the German 30th sound enigneer's convention.
Audio of the voice is quite indirect, but auto English subtitling seems to work (sporadically correct).

Topic of the presentation is the abysmal quality of immersive mixes and the harmful publication politics of the studios regarding 3d sound system proliferation, despite customer demand.

Old 27th November 2018
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter View Post
Topic of the presentation is the abysmal quality of immersive mixes and the harmful publication politics of the studios regarding 3d sound system proliferation, despite customer demand.
Dude, you're turning into a troll. Anyone saying an auto-upmix plugin is better so called "quality" than the intention of the original crew's mix is a pretty "pixel-peeper's" of home cinema nerds.

What's "abysmal quality" in this context? People not using the ceiling speakers? That's a complete nonsense criteria. Just like saying: The last Blade Runner wasn't meant to be 3D so it's bad "quality".

You might think that Atmos Home version are created my some robot at Dolby but many (if not most) of these BD versions are mixed (actually downmixed) by the very same crew that mixed the theatrical version from the original format. And again: Many original mixes contain 1-2 objects and don't use the ceiling. Not because they are idiots not knowing what they do but because they can and because they want to.

The only good statement of that dude in the video is at around 22:20 where he says that it just takes the right people to create a great mix. All the rest is totally subjective comments judging mixes that are what they are because mixing is a process where directors and budgets have their say and direct where a mix has to go and not some engineer "peeping" into just soloing the ceiling arrays in order to find out if the mix is "good".

Star Wars had hardly any objects...so? Guess what: Akira Kurosawa films had hardly any color. So you apply a colorizer plugin and it becomes "good quality"?

What's your point?! (apart from trolling and de-railing this thread from it's original topic?)
Old 27th November 2018
  #127
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by apple-q View Post
Dude, you're turning into a troll.
One begins to make stupid comparisons, does not even understand what the problem is and the mob follows.

You seem to have never heard what Auro is capable of! And your defense of abysmal mixes could be understood from a producer, who wants to save money - or from a studio - but defending abysmal mixes not using the technology correctly and being lightyears away from it's potential, in a postpro forum... But I'm the troll...
Old 27th November 2018
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred vom Jupiter View Post
One begins to make stupid comparisons, does not even understand what the problem is and the mob follows.

You seem to have never heard what Auro is capable of! And your defense of abysmal mixes could be understood from a producer, who wants to save money - or from a studio - but defending abysmal mixes not using the technology correctly and being lightyears away from it's potential, in a postpro forum... But I'm the troll...
This is the point where I'll stop feeding you...you go continue your rant...
Old 27th November 2018
  #129
Gear Addict
 

I started off with a very simple 5.1 pro logic home theater (small bedroom actually) and was ecstatic when I built the little theater, I had an awesome Sony Trinitron 20" (maybe it was as 24", I don't remember), but this was built in the early 90's. And only had VHS tapes and always looked for the dolby prologic symbol. Fast forward to the early part of the aughts and upgraded to a 5.1 true HD system and was again ecstatic!
WHOAH! Full discreet 5.1 surround! Life was great…

Then a few years later finally upgraded to 6.1 (Star Wars is the only disc that I can think of that was mixed in DTS-HD 6.1) and was elated to see that in all of its audio surround glory (bear in mind, almost all receivers, at least the mid-level to high end have an upmix mode to take a stereo or 5.1 to 6.1 and beyond, depending on what configurations are out at that time channel wise)
Then fast forward a few years later and upgraded to a 7.2. Life was good, had to watch everything I had all over again. And I thought to myself, this is as far as it will go for the consumer level home theater (except for those with Kardashian $$).

Then out of the blue...
Dolby and DTS (each one with their respective in ceiling speaker technology) came out with ATMOS & DTS:X, I quickly upgraded to that format and now running a 9.3.4 theater to (also a slightly larger screen than my original Sony 20", it's now a 150" 4K/3D screen, and yes 3D is still alive, even though one must order most movies in 3D on Blu-Ray from the UK, as Disney no longer sells it anywhere in North America, dumb). And life is now on a whole new level.

ATMOST makes ordinary surround sound seem like its in plain stereo. A HUGE game changer on SOOOOOO many levels, with film, TV, and gaming. For the films that are not coded in ATMOS, the receiver can upmix using Dolby+ATMOS or DTS:X.

Here I am thinking, this is it. One can't add anymore speakers, what else is there? Except for of course those with large rooms, can have array of L/R surrounds, L/R rear surrounds, and an array of in ceiling ATMOS, and more subs. But that is just splitting it to fit the size of the room.

However as complete as one can get with the current surround set up, I am sure there's something else on the drawing board. Since each evolution of channels has around an 8 year life span (that was just my assumption on time frames). I can't imagine what else Dolby and DTS will come up with by the year 2025'sh
10.4.10.4?  made that up, but you get the point
One can only imagine, but I am a HUGE proponent of ATMOS, and wish more mixers would use them. Yes I know a lot of it is subjective, so I thus subjectively feel there should be a LOT more use of it.

If the diehard audioholics spend so much time, money, and construction on building their home theaters and go all out with the ATMOS speakers, they want to hear them and feel them. I am also on AVSforum and some of the home theater consumers have built is jaw dropping. And in the home theater forums under each and every specific brand of higher end receivers, they are very passionate about ATMOS and surround. Always tinkering and sharing their settings to get the most out of the system.
Yes I know the hard core users of this technology are a very small niche, but they are from all over the world. It is our job to convert as many average Joe's into enthusiasts. The more of them, the more security for us and in the end, more demand for better immersive audio.
Old 27th November 2018
  #130
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Fred vom Jupiter's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
ATMOST makes ordinary surround sound seem like its in plain stereo.
Every real room, every real space has acoustic height. That creation of height of the real world space is the idea behind immersive audio. Immersive audio IS NOT hearing certain sounds coming from above. It can be nice, but in many cases it just distracts from the screen.

Contrary to that understanding, which is already a result of Dolby's marketing, immersive audio is not really heard. Quite the contrary. Immersive audio makes the room disappear and replaces it with an other space.

Real immersive audio makes walls disappear. It even can create the illusion of a much smaller room, like a car interior.

How many mixes are out there, where people talking in a car, are put into an immersive audio car interior, where the cinemas ceiling suddenly seems to be just above the heads of the audience?

That kind audio sucks viewers into the screen! It feels, as if you were IN that space. That's immersive.
Contrary to that, panning the wind's noise on ceiling speakers has not much to do with immersion. It distracts.

Another example: if you are lsitenign to a conversation in a cathedral, you don't hear sound coming from a ceiling. You don't hear the left wall's refelctions, the right wall. You are just in a different room.
That's what immersive audio is about and was invented for by van Baelen.
Old 6th April 2019
  #131
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billjv's Avatar
This thread has been very interesting and eye-opening for me. I own a small project studio. I'm interested in Dolby Atmos both from the listening and producing perspectives. However I think the barrier to entry for any small/budget studio is going to be the speaker power requirements and costs associated with that, along with the other hardware needed to encode/decode/monitor. That being said, I've seen some editing rooms delivering materials to broadcast in 5.1 that are anything but certified or even properly treated and tuned. I have to wonder if Atmos mixes will end up also getting the low-budget treatment eventually for HT mixes.

Do you more experienced mixers here think it's feasible and/or useful for a smaller project studio to deliver stems for Atmos that will be mastered in a larger stage later in the process? What are broadcast composer/producers delivering in terms of music stems for eventual inclusion in Dolby Atmos mixes? This scenario has to be playing out at least in some form or another, given the mix capabilities are already now in Pro Tools and Nuendo. I'm guessing that (especially for some Netflix shows that are going to get a final Dolby Atmos stamp of approval) the composer and/or mixer gets everything very close in the B-room/project/home studio and then delivers as many stems (possibly all the tracks) to a certified Dolby Atmos room to do a final mix? In fact I'm hoping I can eventually develop a workflow of that nature with a director in L.A. right now, where I get all of the tracks as mix-ready in my southern coast project studio as possible, and then deliver the tracks virtually or personally for final mix. I would love to hear thoughts on this, pro and con. I want to at least feel like I am helping the process along as much as possible in my room before handing off to a certified room for final tweaking/mixing.
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