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Seaton Sound and QSC
Old 15th April 2017
  #1
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Seaton Sound and QSC

So my Meyer Sound setup idea is scrapped due to it being over budget. I've come down to Seaton Sound. I know Seaton Sound is "home audio" brand but maybe I thought there might be some who have some experience with the Seaton Sound Catalyst speakers. I am also thinking about a QSC cinema setup for my room. For the QSC setup, I am considering the following:

Amplifiers: 6 x QSC DCA 2422 or 3 x DPA 4.2
Mains: 2 x QSC SC-1120
Center: 1 x QSC SC-1120
Side surrounds: 2 x QSC SR-8200
Back surrounds: 2 x QSC SR-8200
Ceiling speakers: 4 x QSC SR-8200
Subwoofers: *will add my own subwoofers*

My room dimensions and proposed speaker locations are as follows (this is a very rough and not-to-scale drawing mainly showing speaker locations):

Old 15th April 2017
  #2
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Add the following JBL setup into the mix...

Processor: Arcam AV860 or Acurus ACT 4
Amplifiers: 2 x JBL Synthesis SDA 4600 + 1 x JBL Synthesis SDA 8300
Mains: 2 x JBL Pro M2
Center: 1 x JBL Pro M2
Side surrounds: 2 x JBL Pro 9300 or 8320
Back surrounds: 2 x JBL Pro 9300 or 8320
Ceiling speakers: 4 x JBL Pro SCS 8
Subwoofers: 2 x Seaton Sound SubMersive HPi+ + 2 x Seaton Sound SubMersive HP-Slave

Any comments/opinions on the above? I've heard very impressive stuff on the M2s.
Old 15th April 2017
  #3
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The JBL M2 aren't Cheap! That are actually around $10,000.00 each speaker on the L,C,R . The system can't be that cheaper ( if it all ) vs the Meyers.

You would be happy with either the QSC or the JBL is you can afford either of them.
Old 15th April 2017
  #4
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The M2s have a list price of $6,000/each (without amplifiers). That is what I was told by a JBL dealer on the AVS Forum. This is before discounts.
Old 17th April 2017
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprkd1 View Post
The M2s have a list price of $6,000/each (without amplifiers). That is what I was told by a JBL dealer on the AVS Forum. This is before discounts.
Sorry for hijacking the thread but anybody knows how M2 would compare to 200 series?
200 Series Products | JBL Professional

They are only two weeks old babies, so probably only testers can chime in....
Old 17th April 2017
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Old 17th April 2017
  #7
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Go with the JBL. It is more of what you are looking for.
If you can afford it the system should give you what you require for
the size of your space.
Good luck and post pictures once you have it installed.
Also get someone who knows how to tune a room correctly to set up your room and tune it. That to me is worth more than the cost of the system!!
Old 18th April 2017
  #8
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You also could consider using Crown amps for JBL setup, they have the onboard DSP, with presets for M2s and other JBL speakers, so you can at least quick-start your setup. But as Marti said - bring someone to set up & tune the room.
Old 18th April 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zanmixr View Post
You also could consider using Crown amps for JBL setup, they have the onboard DSP, with presets for M2s and other JBL speakers, so you can at least quick-start your setup. But as Marti said - bring someone to set up & tune the room.
The Synthesis amps are basically re-badged Crown amps.

If I go with the JBL setup, I will have someone come over and calibrate.
Old 19th April 2017
  #10
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Slightly off-topic...

Can a woven AT screen work with a viewing distance of roughly 7 ft? Or will visual artifacts be too visible from this viewing distance? I've heard good things about the DreamScreen V6 UltraWeave AT Screen which is known to have a very tight weave.

https://dreamscreen.no/collections/p...fit-all-system
Old 23rd April 2017
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprkd1 View Post
Slightly off-topic...

Can a woven AT screen work with a viewing distance of roughly 7 ft? Or will visual artifacts be too visible from this viewing distance? I've heard good things about the DreamScreen V6 UltraWeave AT Screen which is known to have a very tight weave.

https://dreamscreen.no/collections/p...fit-all-system
Anything on the above?
Old 6th May 2017
  #12
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dr.sound,

Have you heard the M2? If so, what are your impressions of the speaker and how would you compare it to your Acherons?
Old 6th May 2017
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprkd1 View Post
dr.sound,

Have you heard the M2? If so, what are your impressions of the speaker and how would you compare it to your Acherons?
The JBL M2 is a fine Consumer speaker. It does not have the headroom or throw that my Meyer Acheron's have but in the size of your installation they will be very good. I am not a Crown or BSS fan. I have my reasons but they do have the
Speaker/ crossover/amp/eq thing optimized for those speakers.

The Meyers are optimized at the Factory with the Crossover and amp to Meyer specs.

Buy the JBL's , impress your Audiophile friends and enjoy your Home Theater.
Spend more time enjoying and less time agonizing over what speaker to buy.
Old 6th May 2017
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
The JBL M2 is a fine Consumer speaker. It does not have the headroom or throw that my Meyer Acheron's have but in the size of your installation they will be very good. I am not a Crown or BSS fan. I have my reasons but they do have the
Speaker/ crossover/amp/eq thing optimized for those speakers.

The Meyers are optimized at the Factory with the Crossover and amp to Meyer specs.

Buy the JBL's , impress your Audiophile friends and enjoy your Home Theater.
Spend more time enjoying and less time agonizing over what speaker to buy.
I am actually still quite far off (at least 1 year) from purchasing/going through with anything at the moment. Still have time to research/ponder on stuff to make sure I get it right. I decided to put things on hold in order to save-up more and get what I really want instead of compromising due to budget. Even the room might change at this stage. But what I know for sure is that it will either be a M2 based setup or an Acheron based setup.
Old 7th May 2017
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprkd1 View Post
But what I know for sure is that it will either be a M2 based setup or an Acheron based setup.
...or whatever is new and good in 1 year's time ;-)

no seriously, good decision to not rush things. it will save you big $$ fixing things done in a rush.
Old 7th May 2017
  #16
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Thanks.

By the way, dr.sound, do you have a home theater setup at home? If so, what does it consist of? Or do you also watch movies on your dub stage?
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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Spkrd1 I started on a similar path as you, thinking M2 front stage, similar sized room (mine a little bit bigger). I spent a lot of time listening, talking to JBL engineers, and to my trusted pro sound integrator here in LA that builds a lot of very high end pro rooms for both post and music for 20+ years. I'm just going to state my opinions, but I think you might want to research these as ideas:

- JBL M2 I would say is not a "consumer" speaker as dr.sound called it. There is a consumer version, but I myself have only been paying attention to the pro version, and it is used in many high-end pro studios, so certainly not a hi-fi speaker. It is very accurate, high output, broad sweet spot - all the requirements of a pro system. Anyway, this can be semantic/subjective, but that's just my opinion on this.

- JBL M2 is overkill for you. It is too big. You should be looking at the JBL 708(i or p, depending on your needs). The 708 is very, very similar to the sound of the M2 (in an A/B comparison). Main difference is really output, and the 708 will give you MORE than enough SPL at your listening distance / room size. The M2 will have a bit more low-end, but the 708 is not shy at all in that regard, and certainly with a good sub integration it's a complete non-issue (and really, you don't need a sub with the 708s except for LFE track). The M2 might even be at a disadvantage, depending on your room. The drivers are spaced further apart because of size. At a closer listening distance like yours, this can be detrimental. I think you're probably fine with M2 at about 8' like your design shows, but there's a chance the 708 might be better at that distance. But what is certain is that you won't take advantage of the M2's headroom, you won't need it, the 708 sounds virtually as good in a small room like yours. Save your money for more important things like room treatment, or just to allow you to afford it sooner.

- Amps, I went with Parasound A51 250-watt x 5 channel amps and love them. They sound quite a bit better than the QSC amps, are fanless, and you don't need to biamp the 708 (you can, but you won't need to - again, because your room ain't big enough to need it). They also cost more per channel than the QSC amps, but you just saved all that money by not going M2...

- Surrounds, you should look at the JBL 705s. They are the little brother of the 708s. You won't believe how high SPL they are for their size. You could literally use them as mains at your listening distance and probably be OK, but if you're like me, I prefer the headroom / comfort factor of having the larger 708s up front. The 705s are going to be a real upgrade in SQ vs what you were considering for the surrounds. This combo is what JBL is really advising for all the new immersive-sound small rooms, and it's really incredible quality/$. It'll sound great for home theater, also, just dial in a cuve if you want a little more hi-fi hype sound. They are really great for both music and film.

- This is pro stuff, and the speakers are going to need some profile curves applied to be accurate, plus you need a little bit of room calibration. Now I'm not big on processing, so definitely get your room's physical properties and tone sorted first, but then you want a tool to dial-in the last bit for room EQ, alignment, and the speaker curves (the 7 series doesn't sound right unless given a curve - it's part of their design). For that, you can look at the JBL Intonato 24. It's very affordable, handles up to 24 channels, you can remote control it from a smart phone or tablet. You can plug a mic into it, take care of your room modes and other stuff below 500Hz (above 500Hz, it leaves it alone, expecting you to handle that with room treatment - which is the right thing to do). If you're using a processor with Dirac or Audyssey or whatever, I'd probably just bypass that and use the Intonato. It's a very non-invasive light touch to room EQ. If you're not going to treat your room properly, then I suppose you might try also adding in the Dirac or whatever AFTER you do the Intonato tuning (not before). Nice thing is Intonato you can have different calibrations / target curves saved, like one for music, one for mixing, one for theater, one with X-curve, etc., to suit your different uses.

I have zero affiliation with JBL or any other company. I realized I should clarify that in case I sound like a JBL fan boy. I love Meyer stuff too, but more for theatrical post. In smaller rooms, right now I think JBL is the best choice, especially because I don't like Meyer's philosophy of how they rolloff the high end to mimic bigger rooms with horn-loaded tweeters. I'll do that in processing if I want it to translate to a big room, but in a small room I prefer to have accuracy into the high end without rolloff. Especially since you seem to be talking more about home theater anyway, I wouldn't want that Meyer rolloff.

All just my 2 cents.
Old 1 week ago
  #18
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Mazer,
So we have a different opinion about the M2.
You seem to be from LA so tell me other
than Westlake Pro demo room who in post has the M2's? I personally like the 708's . But the M2 can't play at a Theatrical level in rooms that typically mix Theatrical. I do know many smaller mix rooms that use the 708's . But you have to realize the reason I replied originally is that I have had this conversation with SPRKD1 on numerous forums . He wants Theatrical/ Live levels from his speakers. I finally gave up after plenty of posts and told him to go to the JBL's which he brought up. About the so called Meyer rolloff, they are designed to replicate the Smpte spec , no hype, just accurate. Have you heard my system? No hype , just clarity, non fatigue sound . If your in LA you know where to find me. I'm sitting at work on a Saturday evening. The JBL 7 series are nice for a nearfield sound. The JBL Intonato isn't even out yet so let's not talk about something that is just a spec sheet until we use it or know someone who isn't a JBL Rep who is using it.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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The only part I was disagreeing was calling the M2s a consumer speaker, while acknowledging this could become semantics real fast. I think they are very much pro and there's some very credible pro users, though more in music than post because they aren't sized right for post. I do know some veteran post mixers who are using them in their medium-sized home stages, where they will pre-mix before taking it to final at a large stage. But, like you said, they are too small for theatrical post stages. And then they are too big for most pre-mix, TV, QC, or editorial rooms. So they just don't really size right for most of the post rooms out there.

Likewise, I am not big on the Crown amps hence my getting the Parasounds for myself, which I'll freely admit are a consumer product that I just think sound better and fit the bill. Like the OP, my room isn't that big (~3,000 cu ft).

So I get why the M2s are not something you'd recommend for theatrical, but I thought the OP was showing an 8-9' listening distance in his room. M2s would easily create theatrical levels at that distance. But then, so would the 708s, especially with a baffle wall and/or some bass-managed subs, so right back where I began which is recommending he look at the 708s to save some money (and another example of the M2s not being the right scale for most rooms).

I've never heard your room (I just looked you up to see, wasn't sure). I'm not very sociable online and don't post much on the forums, so I don't really know who is who here. I've heard the big theatrical Meyer systems and love them and, cost no object, would choose them every day of the week over JBL. In smaller rooms, though, it seems their Amie is so much about having a small room translate to a big stage that it limits its versatility for other things, like TV work and music. I totally get why a theatrical-focused post house would like them, since they are very focused on that niche. But a lot of small rooms work in a bigger variety of formats than that, and the OP seemed he wanted this for home theater and other uses, not just theatrical, hence why I'd think JBL more a fit for him.

Anyway, you know way more about this than I do and I'm open-minded, so would love to be better informed if you hear it differently. And I'd love to hear your room some day. I'm not a sound pro, I'm just a Director who in another life might have been a composer or sound designer because I love the sound and music side of it so much. So instead I invest a lot in having my home studio be as mix-worthy as possible so I can do some personal recordings and evaluation from home without driving in and also so I can get my hands a little dirty on certain sound editorial bits I feel strongly about.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazerRackham View Post
So I get why the M2s are not something you'd recommend for theatrical, but I thought the OP was showing an 8-9' listening distance in his room. M2s would easily create theatrical levels at that distance. But then, so would the 708s, especially with a baffle wall and/or some bass-managed subs, so right back where I began which is recommending he look at the 708s to save some money (and another example of the M2s not being the right scale for most rooms).

I've never heard your room (I just looked you up to see, wasn't sure). I'm not very sociable online and don't post much on the forums, so I don't really know who is who here. I've heard the big theatrical Meyer systems and love them and, cost no object, would choose them every day of the week over JBL. In smaller rooms, though, it seems their Amie is so much about having a small room translate to a big stage that it limits its versatility for other things, like TV work and music. I totally get why a theatrical-focused post house would like them, since they are very focused on that niche. But a lot of small rooms work in a bigger variety of formats than that, and the OP seemed he wanted this for home theater and other uses, not just theatrical, hence why I'd think JBL more a fit for him.
Thank you for your reply. Once again the OP wanted LIVE SOUND LEVELS over and above Theatrical Reference. I have gone over his wants in plenty of posts. I didn't think Meyers ( IN ANY FORM) would keep him happy. That's why I said go for the JBL's. As for smaller rooms you are right ( and note I never said anything about Amie's... ever!) I too like the JBL 708's all the way around if possible. The only Theatrical Post House that likes the Amie's is Skywalker for their sound editorial rooms.
Still not sure where your comment about the Meyers and the High Frequency...
"because I don't like Meyer's philosophy of how they rolloff the high end to mimic bigger rooms with horn-loaded tweeters. I'll do that in processing if I want it to translate to a big room, but in a small room I prefer to have accuracy into the high end without rolloff. Especially since you seem to be talking more about home theater anyway, I wouldn't want that Meyer rolloff. "
You must be talking about the Amie's once again. They are not a choice in the OP's layout and I never suggested them.
Old 6 days ago
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
Still not sure where your comment about the Meyers and the High Frequency...
"because I don't like Meyer's philosophy of how they rolloff the high end to mimic bigger rooms with horn-loaded tweeters. I'll do that in processing if I want it to translate to a big room, but in a small room I prefer to have accuracy into the high end without rolloff. Especially since you seem to be talking more about home theater anyway, I wouldn't want that Meyer rolloff. "
You must be talking about the Amie's once again. They are not a choice in the OP's layout and I never suggested them.
Dr.Sound, if I gave you the impression that my initial post above was made as a direct response to you or your advice, and a rather contrarian one, my apologies as it wasn't meant to be. Other than your one specific comment about M2s being consumer, I was responding to the OP's first couple posts about dropping pursuit of Meyer and looking at M2s. The comment you quoted above was regarding Amies, which you obviously didn't mention, but when Spkrd1 said he was scrapping the idea of Meyers, I figured Amie because I thought that's their solution for his size room. Also on SPL, since he was talking Meyer/JBL/Crown/QSC brands and home theater, I thought theater SPL levels (no mention of levels beyond that in this thread). It sounds like there's more history/context from other threads that you have which I don't from just reading this thread.
Old 6 days ago
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazerRackham View Post
Dr.Sound, if I gave you the impression that my initial post above was made as a direct response to you or your advice, and a rather contrarian one, my apologies as it wasn't meant to be. Other than your one specific comment about M2s being consumer, I was responding to the OP's first couple posts about dropping pursuit of Meyer and looking at M2s. The comment you quoted above was regarding Amies, which you obviously didn't mention, but when Spkrd1 said he was scrapping the idea of Meyers, I figured Amie because I thought that's their solution for his size room. Also on SPL, since he was talking Meyer/JBL/Crown/QSC brands and home theater, I thought theater SPL levels (no mention of levels beyond that in this thread). It sounds like there's more history/context from other threads that you have which I don't from just reading this thread.
You are correct, there is "history / context from other threads" on other forums.
Not an issue between me and you, I just had to respond.
His questions have been going on for a few years. I finally said" go with the JBL's" as I feel it would suit his requirements and layout best.
Old 5 days ago
  #23
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Thanks for the new replies/info.

Yes, I know I have been talking about all this for a very long time now. It is just that all this will be a very significant purchase for me and I want to "properly" think everything over. Right now I am trying to build a room over a current/existing outdoor terrace in the house which will result in a room size that will be roughly 20 ft long x 14.5 ft wide x 9.5-10 ft high. Funny thing about where I live is that even if you own your house, you still need to get an approval (which you need to pay for) for any major modifications to the house from the developer. I haven't applied for an approval just yet but I'll have to get my hopes up with quite a bit of luck as they usually do not allow extensions to the house to be made of concrete (i.e. you need glass walls/ceilings, etc.). I need quite a bit of "good luck wishing" for this to work.

Coming back to M2 vs. Meyer Sound, ideally I still want (if I get to build that new room) a full Meyer Sound setup with the Acheron Studio as LCR, HMS-10 for surrounds and ceilings, X-800C subwoofers under each Acheron Studio, two rear X-400C subwoofers, and a Galileo GALAXY 408 (which will EQ/room-correct the three LCR speakers and the five subwoofers). I'll rely on an Altitude32 to EQ/room-correct the remaining surround and ceiling speakers along with handling the signal processing. It will be an 11.5.6 setup. The MSRP will be quite a bit more than a similar setup using the M2.

However, there was one post on another forum where a few users compared the Amie to the new JBL 7 Series monitors and they noted that the Amies sounded like the sound was "coming from the speakers" with a very narrow sweet-spot. The JBLs, on the other hand, had a much wider sweet-spot and much better imaging. Imaging is one area that the M2 is absolutely amazing at based on what I've read. What about with the Acherons? Do the narrow sweet-spot and the sound sounding like it is "coming from the speakers" of the Amies follow-through to the Acherons? I currently own and use a pair of LSR305 monitors with the matching LSR310S subwoofer with my desktop PC and really love they way the sound and image. I don't think I've heard any Meyer Sound speakers as of yet but know they are very highly regarded.

Here is a link to the thread (and I see dr.sound has also posted in it): Meyersound Amie - Avid Pro Audio Community
Old 5 days ago
  #24
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Since that was posted I spent significant time with the Amies..
One point that is missed by nearly everyone who listens to them
until they read the John Meyer white paper on them..
They are designed to be set up 1 to 2 meters away.
so anything past 6 feet they don't sound good.
They also have a very, very small narrow window to sit in to get
the best results. Too narrow to me.

I like the JBL 708's . They have a very wide throw and
sound nice from both close and far distance. They are a "mid Field
speaker". I have the JBL 6328's which I love for "mid field"
and in the future I will purchase an Immersive set up consisting of all
JBL 708's.

Hope this helps straighten things out.
Old 5 days ago
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
I have the JBL 6328's which I love for "mid field"
and in the future I will purchase an Immersive set up consisting of all
JBL 708's.
Hey Dr., do you mind sharing what size room you would hypothetically be putting the 708 immersive system in and what sub you'd pair with the 708s if buying new? Reason I ask is I haven't chose a sub for my ~3,000 cu ft room yet. I've had JBL 6312 before and thought it was fine, though I didn't *love* it as much as I did my 6328 monitors. I also might be moving to a bigger room in near future (12-18 months) so thought maybe I should look at a higher output sub to hedge my bets on a possible migration. Would much appreciate your thoughts...
Old 5 days ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazerRackham View Post
Hey Dr., do you mind sharing what size room you would hypothetically be putting the 708 immersive system in and what sub you'd pair with the 708s if buying new? Reason I ask is I haven't chose a sub for my ~3,000 cu ft room yet. I've had JBL 6312 before and thought it was fine, though I didn't *love* it as much as I did my 6328 monitors. I also might be moving to a bigger room in near future (12-18 months) so thought maybe I should look at a higher output sub to hedge my bets on a possible migration. Would much appreciate your thoughts...
Have you considered the JBL SUB18? It is designed to work with the M2 but I don't see why it couldn't also work with the 708.

SUB18 | JBL Professional

Edit: Or maybe even the JBL S2S-EX: http://www.jblsynthesis.com/productdetail/s2s-ex.html

There is also a S1S-EX with an 18" driver.
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