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Eureka!!!! Equalisers (HW)
Old 21st December 2016
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
maria's Avatar
 

Eureka!!!!

I thought it would be an interesting topic to share something you learned or shown that completely changed how you work and approach sound, whether it's sound design, editing, or mixing. In other words your moment of audio enlightment

This could be a simple thought process, a method or a use of a new tool or plug-ins.

For me it was the discovery of simplicity in tracklaying, less is more and space for each element. I know it's obvious but it took some time to sink.

For tools: Processing sounds in Audiofinder or Soundminer before they get imported into Pro Tools made a huge difference to the way I work.

Last edited by maria; 21st December 2016 at 04:25 PM..
Old 21st December 2016
  #2
Lives for gear
 

I stopped using eq to notch out hums and tones. I use RX spec repair now for that. So much faster to see the tone than try to find it by sweeping an EQ band.
Old 21st December 2016
  #3
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It was a revelation, many years ago, when I discovered how to sweep a parametric and find pitched sounds or room nodes quickly. Set the Q to max and the boost/cut to max boost. Then sweep. The offending tone will jump out at you, usually crackling into overs! Set the +/- to maximum cut, widen the Q if needed, and you're done. No processing time, very little processor load, easily automated so you don't have to render (and can change things at the mix). Some post-production filters even have built-in multipliers for other sections, so you can get harmonics without any additional tuning!

RX5 is a heck of a powerful tool. But I've found a little pre-eq'ing, killing the freqs that are causing the most trouble, makes it even better/faster/fewer artifacts. YMMV.

(My one complaint about UREI's Little Dipper was that it didn't have a boost function for tuning. Should have been very easy to add. I did my dipping in a UREI parametric instead.
Old 21st December 2016
  #4
Lives for gear
Oh... lots of other revelations at jayrose.com/tutorial.
Old 21st December 2016
  #5
Gear Addict
Giving up on the notion that a certain piece of hardware or chain would "complete" my journey or get me to a certain level.
Old 21st December 2016
  #6
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NReichman's Avatar
 

Early in my career, when I not only understood but started to strictly adhere to calibrated listening levels. Eureka!
Old 21st December 2016
  #7
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dr.sound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
It was a revelation, many years ago, when I discovered how to sweep a parametric and find pitched sounds or room nodes quickly. Set the Q to max and the boost/cut to max boost. Then sweep. The offending tone will jump out at you, usually crackling into overs! Set the +/- to maximum cut, widen the Q if needed, and you're done. No processing time, very little processor load, easily automated so you don't have to render (and can change things at the mix). Some post-production filters even have built-in multipliers for other sections, so you can get harmonics without any additional tuning!

RX5 is a heck of a powerful tool. But I've found a little pre-eq'ing, killing the freqs that are causing the most trouble, makes it even better/faster/fewer artifacts. YMMV.

(My one complaint about UREI's Little Dipper was that it didn't have a boost function for tuning. Should have been very easy to add. I did my dipping in a UREI parametric instead.
Sure it did Jay. The Urei 565 Little Dipper had a "Peak and Notch".
You would sweep the frequencies with the Peak in a broad setting then once you found it you narrowed the peak to find exactly what the offending noise was and then switch over to Notch. I contacted George Massenburg about putting a Peak, Notch on his plug ins using that same example along with Avid ( Digidesign at the time) for their EQ 7/3 and also Colin at McDSP . They all included it in their products.
Attached Thumbnails
Eureka!!!!-urei_565-closeup.jpg  
Old 21st December 2016
  #8
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Mundox's Avatar
Accepting the fact that you are not always right.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Using dynamic pitch shifting in my sound effects editing. It's a whole other layer of manipulation to make your tracks sing.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #10
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Marti, the Little Dipper I'm recalling was a half-rack black-faced unit, probably early 1970s, that got replaced by the 565. These were the first days of parametric equalization.

I believe I got this earlier Dipper on a loaner from Audiotechniques. Or maybe I just dreamed it... does anyone else remember a unit like that?
Old 22nd December 2016
  #11
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Rose View Post
Marti, the Little Dipper I'm recalling was a half-rack black-faced unit, probably early 1970s, that got replaced by the 565. These were the first days of parametric equalization.

I believe I got this earlier Dipper on a loaner from Audiotechniques. Or maybe I just dreamed it... does anyone else remember a unit like that?
I believe the 545 would not peak, rather cut only.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #12
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
I stopped using eq to notch out hums and tones. I use RX spec repair now for that. So much faster to see the tone than try to find it by sweeping an EQ band.
DMG eq with its built-in spectrum analyser shows you the link tone. Rarely need to sweep.
And I don't like what RX does tonally to dialog.
Just watched click a major big budget movie the other day. I fouND it to be unwatchable. Every line of DX had that processed RX muted boxiness quality.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
DMG eq with its built-in spectrum analyser shows you the link tone. Rarely need to sweep.
And I don't like what RX does tonally to dialog.
Just watched click a major big budget movie the other day. I fouND it to be unwatchable. Every line of DX had that processed RX muted boxiness quality.

You mean you think they overdid it with the RX noise reduction or other aspect of RX? I'm guessing NR....easy to over-do.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #14
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NReichman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Using dynamic pitch shifting in my sound effects editing. It's a whole other layer of manipulation to make your tracks sing.
Is that you with a finger on the pitch-bend wheel in Kontakt? Or drawing in crazy curves in Pitch 'n' Time? Curious to know what your go-to method is.
Old 23rd December 2016
  #15
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NReichman View Post
Is that you with a finger on the pitch-bend wheel in Kontakt? Or drawing in crazy curves in Pitch 'n' Time? Curious to know what your go-to method is.
I use Sound Shifter, very simple plug-in for drawing curves and I think it sounds great in this application. I find I'm constantly ramping things up or down now or at least trying to, in order to breath a little more life and movement into a sound within the context of a scene. Often I'm thinking of overall pitch within scenes now too, generally equating higher pitch to more intensity. Of course it has to be tasteful but it can be really effective.

JR
Old 23rd December 2016
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

My Eureka moment: It's ok to say "no" to a project. And that sound might be "more than 50% of the movie!", according to the director, but only 3 % of the budget. If you're lucky. I just today had to turn down a 1.4 M theatrical movie that had a sound post budget of 17'000.-
Old 24th December 2016
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManuG View Post
My Eureka moment: It's ok to say "no" to a project. And that sound might be "more than 50% of the movie!", according to the director, but only 3 % of the budget. If you're lucky. I just today had to turn down a 1.4 M theatrical movie that had a sound post budget of 17'000.-
+1... I keep re-learning that... doesn't seem to stick when it's slow...
Old 24th December 2016
  #18
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PeteJE's Avatar
The craft of sound mixing for picture and the work flow involved was perfected decades ago..... everything else is just tools that fit into that workflow. The workflow isn't about efficiency or new cool ways to do things.... it is about staying totally connected to the picture, edit, story, and track that you are creating, etc. Don't let the tools become the focus.

That, plus I learned that as many great mixers are out there, there are that many great ways to approach and do this work.
Old 27th December 2016
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
DMG eq with its built-in spectrum analyser shows you the link tone. Rarely need to sweep....
A litte OT, but I have a question for you Mark...when you're outputting your mixes & stems, are you doing a real-time print onto record tracks, or an offline bounce? I ask because I've started using Equilibrium as my main EQ and am finding that it slows down offline bounces significantly. Just wondering if you've seen that and if you know of any workaround to speed things up (assuming you ever do your outputs via offline bounce).
Old 28th December 2016
  #20
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Henchman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailor View Post
A litte OT, but I have a question for you Mark...when you're outputting your mixes & stems, are you doing a real-time print onto record tracks, or an offline bounce? I ask because I've started using Equilibrium as my main EQ and am finding that it slows down offline bounces significantly. Just wondering if you've seen that and if you know of any workaround to speed things up (assuming you ever do your outputs via offline bounce).
We print in real time to a separate machine.
Old 28th December 2016
  #21
The one thing i have learned this year is that people in the sound industry who i have gotten to speak with and visit their facility are awesome great people who see my potential and see my drive. And another great find I had this year was sitting in with Marti over at his facility The Dub Stage, and watching him mix a little and seeing him sweep and pull out tones. It took me a while to figure out what he was doing but I did not want to cut him off and ask a dumb question. And his tips and tricks when he took a look at my pro tools dialogue chain and told me how i could do better and his main dialogue editor also told me how to cut better dialogue which was a blessing to me so have these kind of people, to be able to be open and honest, and shave time for a super green sound designer/ dialogue editor. I know i probably cant be both down the road. But I am for now focusing on dialogue since thats king. and learning how to do that well then transition to effects. BUt thats a nother story and a half.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone else on here and over at Formosa and Technicolor as well for letting me come by and visit and being a student/associate member of the CAS. This year (2016) has been a real help and a huge boost of my passion and drive and to know I am doing the right thing and in times of thinking I am failing people are hear to help me get on track. And thats how I see 2016. Was meeting with people and hearing their tips and tricks and seeing their passion and drive for telling a good story with sound and being willing to talk to a up an coming sound editor. I know I am young at 23 and have years to go. I am keeping my head up held high and being strong. And believing in my self and seeing others see my passion and drive for sound.

Thanks again
Henry
Old 29th December 2016
  #22
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TVPostSound's Avatar
Eureka.
When you feel you aren't going anywhere with your mix:

Remove all Compressors limiters eq noise reduction.
Mix without, then reinstill them as needed.
Old 30th December 2016
  #23
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Realizing that not every clip needs to be processed to death. A well recorded piece of dialogue or VO is a beautiful thing. If it sounds good, it is good
Old 30th December 2016
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurfyou View Post
Realizing that not every clip needs to be processed to death. A well recorded piece of dialogue or VO is a beautiful thing. If it sounds good, it is good
Agreed!
Old 30th December 2016
  #25
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+1! The point of most narrative dialog is to bring us into the characters' world. If processing is noticeable, it hurts the illusion. (If processing is necessary, try processing the fx and music instead...)
Old 2nd January 2017
  #26
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ggegan's Avatar
I can't call it a eureka moment because it came as a result of a very gradual process of honing my instincts and learning to trust them, but the major lesson I have learned is not to over-intellectualize my creative decisions but instead let my unedited natural reactions dictate direction. That means not thinking in terms of what industry tradition dictates should be done or what did they do in some iconic sound moment in another movie. Those things will naturally be incorporated into one's gut reactions, so you don't really need to push them. It also means not second-guessing the client. That is tricky because they come with very different sensibilities and one's taste may be the polar opposite to another's, but generally speaking if you pay attention to the style of the camera work, the acting and the picture editing, if you embrace and internalize their styles then your reactions will be in sync. That requires avoiding preconceived ideas of right and wrong and instead becoming a styistic chameleon that is pliable enough to instinctively and genuinely adapt to the current creative environment you are working in.

There is plenty of opportunity for intellectualism in learning technical tools and requirements as well as thinking about the content of an intelligent project.

I think this is in the same vein as what PeteJE posted.

Last edited by ggegan; 2nd January 2017 at 07:32 PM..
Old 2nd January 2017
  #27
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Brian Campbell's Avatar
 

'stylistic chameleon' love it!
Old 2nd January 2017
  #28
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ggegan's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
DMG eq with its built-in spectrum analyser shows you the link tone. Rarely need to sweep.
And I don't like what RX does tonally to dialog.
Just watched click a major big budget movie the other day. I fouND it to be unwatchable. Every line of DX had that processed RX muted boxiness quality.
I don't think blanket criticisms of RX are valid since, as is generally true of any tool, a lot has to do with the skill of the user. Besides, RX is much more than the Denoiser module, which I understand why you dislike it and agree that it not particularly stellar for use on dialog (although it is brilliant for denoising most sound effects). RX has a lot of different tools to work with, including standard EQ if you just want to notch, but it also has Spectral Repair which allows you to blend tones and errant sounds into the background with minimal affect on the quality of the voice if used judiciously. Spectral Repair also is excellent at removing or diminishing whistling esses, which a de-esser isn't very effective on. There is an excellent DeHum module, which is essentially just an intelligent notching tool. I have seen the Declip tool save production dialog from having to be replaced by ADR many times. For isolated sounds you want to remove like bird chirps etc you can copy and paste clean sound in that frequency range. If you use the proper modules in the correct way or as combinations in a specific order it is a very powerful and effective suite of tools.

BTW, DMG Equillibrium has both a spectrum analyzer and a spectrogram, which makes identifying the frequency of subtle tones easier, plus it provides excellent notching in addition to standard parametric EQ. It also has separate gain controls for every channel, which is very useful for re-balancing stereo and surround clips.
Old 2nd January 2017
  #29
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Oliver.Lucas's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggegan View Post
I don't think blanket criticisms of RX are valid since, as is generally true of any tool, a lot has to do with the skill of the user. Besides, RX is much more than the Denoiser module, which I understand why you dislike it and agree that it not particularly stellar for use on dialog (although it is brilliant for denoising most sound effects). RX has a lot of different tools to work with, including standard EQ if you just want to notch, but it also has Spectral Repair which allows you to blend tones and errant sounds into the background with minimal affect on the quality of the voice if used judiciously. Spectral Repair also is excellent at removing or diminishing whistling esses, which a de-esser isn't very effective on. There is an excellent DeHum module, which is essentially just an intelligent notching tool. I have seen the Declip tool save production dialog from having to be replaced by ADR many times. For isolated sounds you want to remove like bird chirps etc you can copy and paste clean sound in that frequency range. If you use the proper modules in the correct way and or as combinations in a specific order it is a very powerful and effective suite of tools.

BTW, DMG Equillibrium has both a spectrum analyzer and a spectrogram, which makes identifying the frequency of subtle tones easier, plus it provides excellent notching in addition to standard parametric EQ. It also has separate gain controls for every channel, which is very useful for re-balancing stereo and surround clips.
I find the RX denoiser a LOT better when you manually paint a curve on top of the learned one. This way you can show RX the frequency that annoys most. Your results will improve considerably.
Old 2nd January 2017
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver.Lucas View Post
I find the RX denoiser a LOT better when you manually paint a curve on top of the learned one. This way you can show RX the frequency that annoys most. Your results will improve considerably.
Also, there are two denoisers in the suite. The dialog denoiser introduces fewer artifacts than the other denoiser. Even a Cedar can sound bad if not used correctly.
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