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Halo up mix plugin released
Old 2nd September 2015
  #1
Halo up mix plugin released

The Nugen Halo Upmix plugin has just been released.
Just checked it out, and I'm extremely happy with it.
The fold down is identical to the source when you select exact mode, unlike the waves and other plugins that we re hyping the uppermid's and/or adding sort reflectI I ns to the source.
I can now be confident that what the composer gives me, will be what they hear in playback.
Old 8th September 2015
  #2
Gear Head
 
stevenrussell's Avatar
 

Thanks for the heads up! Gonna' have to add this to our list of Nugen software. Currently using LMB and LM-Correct.
Old 14th September 2015
  #3
Lives for gear
 
nzl62's Avatar
 

Wonder how this compared to Penteo? Penteo seems to have the same qualities in terms of down mix compatibility
Love nugens stuff
Old 14th September 2015 | Show parent
  #4
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
Wonder how this compared to Penteo? Penteo seems to have the same qualities in terms of down mix compatibility
Love nugens stuff
Not sure. Because of reports about the latency in penteo, I didn't even try it.
Old 14th September 2015
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
The Nugen Halo Upmix plugin has just been released.
Just checked it out, and I'm extremely happy with it.
The fold down is identical to the source when you select exact mode, unlike the waves and other plugins that we re hyping the uppermid's and/or adding sort reflectI I ns to the source.
I can now be confident that what the composer gives me, will be what they hear in playback.

What is the trade off when using the "exact mode"?
Old 14th September 2015 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Addict
 
Leverson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
Wonder how this compared to Penteo? Penteo seems to have the same qualities in terms of down mix compatibility
Love nugens stuff
I've been using Penteo 4 for the past year and I *really* like its sound, and the fact that the downmix is 100% identical to the stereo source no matter what you do to it or how crazy you go on the controls.

I had a chance to demo Halo last week and also thought it sounded great. It has a lot more control than Penteo, which means I could make it sound as good as Penteo or I could make Halo sound worse, depending on what I did with it. Generally though I could make the two sound pretty evenly matched to one another. I played with a lot of music sources, a few I liked Penteo a tiny bit better, a few I liked Halo a tiny bit better, but honestly all were pretty close in quality once I wrangled Halo into settings I liked. The only thing I found Penteo could do better than Halo (in my test experience) was getting music with vocals to have the vocals sit cleanly only in the center channel with the rest of the music sounding natural and full in the 5.1 space. I couldn't quite get Halo to do this as cleanly in my tests without the divergence setting feeling weird or the vocals sounding either too isolated or too diverged. There was just a small in-between I felt like I was missing. But I mostly work with lyric-less film scores and rarely need this, it was just a small mental note while playing through a variety of different cues and songs.

The interface of Halo is spectacular. The amount of manual control and the easy to navigate GUI is really a pleasure to use. You can really tweak and customize the sound and spread quickly and easily. The surroundscope is a neat feature as well, and I love having the ability to shelf my surrounds at whatever frequency or amount I want. That's a really handy feature. And of course the lower price point than Penteo and the significantly lower latency are big pluses too.

The Halo downmix in 'Exact' mode sounded pretty identical to the original source to me. I've used Penteo 4 on a large number of projects now and have never once failed QC with it so I trust its downmix completely. I'm curious to hear of people using Halo on their broadcast material and if they have any problems with it, but to my ears the exact mode sounded as advertised.

Lastly I know Penteo just released Penteo 7, which offers more manual control over the sounds going into the surrounds and center, but I didn't spend too much time playing with it as some of the modes in my demo copy are buggy at the moment. I believe they have a new build of it imminent, but when I encountered wonkiness I just kept my test between Penteo 4 and Halo.

If I worked at a studio with either Penteo or Halo I'd be happy with either. Since I already own Penteo I don't know if I *need* to spend the money on Halo at the moment, but I'm enjoying playing with it and it sounds good enough I might just get it to have both in my studio's toolkit anyways based on its pricing.
Old 14th September 2015 | Show parent
  #7
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Leverson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDDP View Post
What is the trade off when using the "exact mode"?
From what I can tell from playing with it, normally you have manual controls over the trim for every channel on either the 'I/O' or 'Center' pages. But when you are in 'exact' mode the trims are overridden and you can't adjust them manually. You still have full control over all the main interface settings though.
Old 15th September 2015
  #8
Gear Maniac
 

Yes, I really like Penteo 4 and had a great experience with it. Unfortunately I upgraded to penteo 7 and it doesn't sound as good to me. With the penteo music preset, the stereo image gets narrowed and the down mix to stereo sounds thin. Also... Penteo 7 is not compatible with penteo 4. When I open old sessions, I have to insert penteo 7 and remix. they should not take away your penteo 4 license when upgrading.

I am going to give halo a shot. I am a fan of their products, and I don't want to be burned by penteo again.
Old 15th September 2015 | Show parent
  #9
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Farhoof's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by E Baxter Put View Post
Yes, I really like Penteo 4 and had a great experience with it. Unfortunately I upgraded to penteo 7 and it doesn't sound as good to me. With the penteo music preset, the stereo image gets narrowed and the down mix to stereo sounds thin. Also... Penteo 7 is not compatible with penteo 4. When I open old sessions, I have to insert penteo 7 and remix. they should not take away your penteo 4 license when upgrading.

I am going to give halo a shot. I am a fan of their products, and I don't want to be burned by penteo again.
This is a known bug and will be fixed, but apparently takes some time to do so.
For a small extra fee you can keep your Penteo 4 license when upgrading, but I agree this should be standard practice.
Old 15th September 2015 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
This is a known bug and will be fixed, but apparently takes some time to do so.
For a small extra fee you can keep your Penteo 4 license when upgrading, but I agree this should be standard practice.

Thanks for the info. I upgraded when Penteo 7 was just released, and I emailed customer support about the compatibility issue, but they didn't offer any way to keep my Penteo 4 license. I would have paid a small fee to do so.

I will contact them again. Thanks
Old 16th September 2015 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
nzl62's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
Not sure. Because of reports about the latency in penteo, I didn't even try it.
Yep its quite big. I tend to pre process though and print the music up mixes then make the penteo tracks inactive until I need to tweak which is rarely.

On a side note - I have started using Penteo on all stereo stems. I was getting bored with constantly having to deal with non 5.1 stems so I started playing with various presets and now have a hard centre for drums and percussion and vocals and various other patches from Quad to Phantom centre for strings guitars pads etc
Speeds up things and I find it a more satisfying result
Old 15th November 2015 | Show parent
  #12
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Leverson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leverson View Post
Lastly I know Penteo just released Penteo 7, which offers more manual control over the sounds going into the surrounds and center, but I didn't spend too much time playing with it as some of the modes in my demo copy are buggy at the moment. I believe they have a new build of it imminent, but when I encountered wonkiness I just kept my test between Penteo 4 and Halo.
I wanted to dig up and update my previous post here since I just got the newest release version of Penteo 7, and all the bugs from my previous beta demo copy seem fixed. From what I could tell, it sounds just like my old Penteo 4 did, but with enhanced control sliders that go from 100%-0% (instead of from between 100%-50% like Penteo 4). Plus the new 7.1 support, but I'm still working in 5.1 here in the studio so that's all I've used.
Old 16th December 2015
  #13
Here for the gear
Penteo vs Halo

i own Penteo 4 pro for quite a while now and it never let me down. I love the Nugen stuff as well and tested Halo too. For me Penteo wins at the end because its more easy to use-less buttons - i like the clearly arranged buttons without submenues and it has all i need when i upmix my music or Atmos to surround.Its fast to use- with halo i d guess you fiddle arround much longer to get the right sound and this time you dont have very often!
Also:with some music i was satisfied with Halo right away but for example Music with lots a reverb- 8 times out of 10 Penteo was doing a much nicer upmix.Penteo was putting more of the reverb in the surround channels leaving the dry stuff in front which is exactly how i would like it. I will update to Penteo 7 pro soon because i need it as audiosuite too.Only issue i have with Penteo is the delay of 10059 samples but i m pretty shure they work on that to bring this down soon! Because when using lots of other plugins with a high delay pro tools delay compensation can come to its limts which happened to me a few times already!
Old 16th December 2015
  #14
I actally find the Halo interface extremely easy. Just a couple of sliders on the front end. And if you really want to get into it, you can open up the advanced section.
One of my main reasons for not even trying Penteo, is the price.
I knew I would need two licenses, because I'm always moving around stages. And I want it to be possible for a fix to be done, if I'm in the middle of a mix elsewhere.
2 instances of Halo were almost the same price as a single licence of Penteo.
And Halo sounds great. Much better than any of the other options I did try.
Old 17th December 2015
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
Farhoof's Avatar
 

Still worth a try though (or for anyone still in doubt). The price might be higher, but it's such a part of the mix it's well worth the investment. The latest version works like a charm (even in low latency mode).
Old 17th December 2015
  #16
Lives for gear
 

I don't care about price, I care about the best quality. That being said, I own both but only seem to use penteo. I have a bed the living cap out of those 2 up mixers and always choose penteo. They both sound good tho.
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #17
Penteo upmixing plugin

Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
Wonder how this compared to Penteo? Penteo seems to have the same qualities in terms of down mix compatibility
Love nugens stuff
For me Penteo is the first choice, when doing stereo-to-5.1 upmixes. I have compared it to several other upmixing solutions (Halo, Iosono Anymix, Waves 360, etc.) and according to my experience Penteo gives you the best results. Depending on the source material, it's sometimes even hard to tell, if the outcome is just a 5.1 stereo-blowup or a "real" 5.1 mix.
As someone said before latency is a topic, as Penteo produces higher latencies than the competitors, but as I'm using it in a delay compensated Pro Tools environment, I never ran into problems. And the excellent sound is unbeaten, even when downfolding the upmixes back to stereo!
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by WavefrontStudios View Post
For me Penteo is the first choice, when doing stereo-to-5.1 upmixes. I have compared it to several other upmixing solutions (Halo, Iosono Anymix, Waves 360, etc.) and according to my experience Penteo gives you the best results. Depending on the source material, it's sometimes even hard to tell, if the outcome is just a 5.1 stereo-blowup or a "real" 5.1 mix.
As someone said before latency is a topic, as Penteo produces higher latencies than the competitors, but as I'm using it in a delay compensated Pro Tools environment, I never ran into problems. And the excellent sound is unbeaten, even when downfolding the upmixes back to stereo!
I haven't had any phase issues when down mixing material with Halo.
I recently had to match in a music cue between cues that were up mixed using penteo, using halo.
It matched perfectly.
The difference was negligible.
Old 14th February 2016
  #19
Gear Maniac
 

Hi guys,

Quick question, do you upmix the music to 5.1 or 5.0?

Thanks,

Oscar
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarproducer View Post
Hi guys,

Quick question, do you upmix the music to 5.1 or 5.0?

Thanks,

Oscar
I usually use halo to upmix to 5.0 and then create my own lfe if required using lowender or similar. I wasn't blown away by the lfe created by halo.
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henchman View Post
I haven't had any phase issues when down mixing material with Halo.
I recently had to match in a music cue between cues that were up mixed using penteo, using halo.
It matched perfectly.
The difference was negligible.
Right but how did the 5.1 music cue sound? I bet Penteo wins hands down. Halo sounds as good as penteo downmixed tho. They are both really good tools. Personally Penteo edges Halo out. I am splitting hairs here.
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
Right but how did the 5.1 music cue sound? I bet Penteo wins hands down. Halo sounds as good as penteo downmixed tho. They are both really good tools. Personally Penteo edges Halo out. I am splitting hairs here.
Actually, Penteo didn't win hands down.
And it was for Disney, and they're quite picky.
Old 14th February 2016
  #23
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Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 

Interesting that you brought the topic back to life, liebe Kollegen bei Wavefront :-)

I am actually currently demoing both Penteo and Halo and it is really really difficult.
Short version: Penteo often feels more musical out of the box compared to Halo, otoh Halo give more options in tweaking, especially the "what goes to the rears and how much of it", also by playing with the diffusion slider. Penteo sends (really very well isolated!!!) pretty much "fixed content" to the rears, more discrete. Sometimes I just don't want the shaker and drums to go to the back that strong. This is where Halo allows for shifting.

What Penteo is amazing at: Keeping bass in the front and providing a very wide stereo effect in the rears.
Sometimes Penteo sounds like it is more mid-rangy/forward than Halo, sometimes softer and more veiled.

LFE: Yes Brandon, I see what you are getting at. Penteo seems way nicer, Halo muddier. Probably because bass content is not only kept in the fronts but goes to the rears and thickens the sound.

Difficult indeed. Halo allows for more tweaking of those parameters/effects, that Penteo doesn't really. Penteo sounds great though, unless there is a certain element you wouldn't like in the rears -> you are stuck (apart from taming the rears). Halo allows the circle-faders and the diffusion to change the content/surround effect.

All just a personal opinion listening to different things on Sunday evening -> subject to change :-)


I'd love a "Penteo discrete mode" in Halo ('s interface)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garret View Post
I usually use halo to upmix to 5.0 and then create my own lfe if required using lowender or similar. I wasn't blown away by the lfe created by halo.
Thank you
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
Leverson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarproducer View Post
Hi guys,

Quick question, do you upmix the music to 5.1 or 5.0?

Thanks,

Oscar
Using Penteo I usually upmix to 5.1, it has really good controls for customizing the LFE content of the upmix.

Both Penteo and Halo sound really good, you can't go wrong with either. I was using Penteo for a year before Halo released and it has treated me well, plus their company feedback has always been great, so I continue to use it, especially with the enhanced slider controls in Penteo 7, but really they both sound fantastic and allow great control over the upmix.
Old 14th February 2016 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leverson View Post
Using Penteo I usually upmix to 5.1, it has really good controls for customizing the LFE content of the upmix.

Both Penteo and Halo sound really good, you can't go wrong with either. I was using Penteo for a year before Halo released and it has treated me well, plus their company feedback has always been great, so I continue to use it, especially with the enhanced slider controls in Penteo 7, but really they both sound fantastic and allow great control over the upmix.
Thanks,

I'm actually using Anymix ( and contemplating other options ). In general I was interested in what's the general practice. I keep getting music well mixed but quite bass heavy so I was wondering if in such cases there is any need to generate LFE information in the up mixing process.

Thanks again.

Oscar
Old 16th February 2016
  #27
Lives for gear
 
tamasdragon's Avatar
 

I own and use Halo. In my opinion it can be as complicated or as simple as you want. With the quick controls usually you get very good results, in my tests, as good as with the Penteo. But, if you willing to tweak things a bit, you have the option to do so, and honestly this is where Halo is slightly better for me than Penteo. After a short test period, you'll surely have your own presets, but still have more control if you need to.
Of course we're talking about luxury things here. Both Penteo and Halo are exceptional tools, and in my opinion both are above the others on the market.
Old 18th February 2016
  #28
Deleted User
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Anyone here beta testing Halo? Interested in the 9.1 extension and Atmos bed track compatibility.
Old 18th February 2016
  #29
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Andrew Mottl's Avatar
 

Interesting Tamas, thanks for your opinion.

I just tested Anymix to Halo demo (last day :D) yesterday. Penteo demo has expired.
What I noticed, like Mark said: Anymix can add a lot of ambience, or rather should I say the presets can drastically alter the tonality. I find Halo's "exact" mode rather comforting to have and know about.

However a question to you Halo people: I found that when changing the "diffusion" slider, the downmix does change in sound! Isn't exact mode supposed to prevent this?
At first I thought it was the downmix coefficients (this time in Nuendo as Anymix is included) but even with the "downmix" in Halo selected, it did change when changing the diffusion. Slightly. But it did...

As for Halo vs. Anymix: I feel like Anymix pro has more features in the way of spanner etc., so a real surround panning environment with upmix. You can rotate etc. the upmix, which Halo isn't meant to do. Not critizing here as Halo IS a (very good it seems) upmixer.

Would really appreciate you experience on the diffusion/downmix thing though folks!
Cheers!
Old 23rd February 2016
  #30
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nzl62's Avatar
 

My workflow with penteo wham I have stems is to have a variety of presets where percussion say is More LCR and strings sort of quad and guitars LCR with some surround. That way I compact the old "shaker to the rear" issue. Just been at my old studio in Scotland and they really like Halo. I think it simply comes down to taste when theres an absence of proper 5.1 mixes or stems. Im not buying both - far too much money so I have Penteo and it works a treat. Not had a single issue
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