The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
All you slutz - let's see your transport..... Modular Synthesizers
Old 30th April 2018
  #121
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Gaia View Post
I'm not trying to claim other people should make the same choices I do. Indeed I made that clear in my initial post. I thought this would be a fun thread to contribute to, but it appears that's not the case. Consider me done. You can now go back to ignoring energy inefficiency of other vehicles posted here and selectively attacking electric vehicles per the oil sector's wishes.
Nobody has accused or criticized you of/for anything, that was made clear also, you're only involved in the discussion because you chose to be involved and you are the one accusing people who raise the question of being the mouthpiece of the oil companies.
Old 30th April 2018
  #122
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
I didn't say I had been accused of anything, I said I wasn't having fun. Feel free to contradict me there, too, if you'd like. Nor did I claim anyone was acting on behalf of any interest, merely pointing out that that they were repeating the talking points that have been played up by said interests. I was hoping to find a shared love of a wide range of vehicles and that's not what I found. Not the end of the world, and I have much more entertaining ways to spend my time.
Old 14th May 2018
  #123
Lives for gear
 

Lady Gaia - I for one am certainly supportive of your car choice, I certainly hope to own a Tesla in the next 5 years or so. 1 electric and 1 gas car would fit my household needs perfectly. Once they figure out the Model 3's manufacturing process, I can easily see that as my next purchase.

The only thing I'll add to the 'debate' here is that where LG seems to live, 89.6% of energy is hydroelectric. Hell, even the factory the cars are made will be using (if not already) 100% sustainable energy.

Things take time to develop and work out solutions to the 'next' issue.
Old 15th May 2018
  #124
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Congrats, you just wasted at least 30-40% (if not more) of the price you paid the second you drove that baby out of the car salon...


I'm never EVER going to buy a brand new car, it's a horrible waste of money IMO...
Unless you live in a city, you're always going to be throwing money away on a car - so you may as well throw the money away in a manner that appeals to you
Old 15th May 2018
  #125
Lives for gear
 
KevWind's Avatar
So back to the actual topic
Well besides the Mini's the Horses and the hybrid Porsche Harley, this is my other mode de transport

Old 15th May 2018
  #126
My Jeep JKU gets about 15 mpg. I don't worry about that stuff. It's a fun car as I don't commute. It used to do 19 before the road warrior mods. Fat @ss mud terrain tires do take a toll on mileage. However, I get far better milage off road than any car because they will get stuck where I go.
Old 22nd May 2018
  #127
Gear Maniac
 
TimFoster's Avatar
I'ma take the exact opposite approach as Jim next month... I get to run my car wide open at Pocono Raceway -- a 2.5 mile, excellently groomed triangular superspeedway!

I'm pretty excited, as it's a rare opportunity in the states to reach these sorts of speeds in a reasonably safe/controlled (and legal) manner.
Old 25th May 2018
  #128
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
They're all relatively new now but in a decade or three we'll have millions to dispose of...they're even in bicycles now too, more than 300,000 sold in France alone last year.
In a decade or 3 we will be moved over to solid state batteries, and likely even the next best thing after them. ICE has gone just about as far as it can go in terms of wheel-to-wheel efficiency, there are not any major potential breakthroughs in the pipeline there. The same can not be said for battery tech relative to EV's. We know that better tech is just around the corner in SSE's and there will be the possibility to further refine that tech...

Of course there is no free lunch, but attempting to use the simple reality that nothing is perfect to go after an ebike really undermines your whole position here. Especially if you are hoping to be perceived as objective.

If you consider the totalistic energy cost of ebike-as-transit to car-as-transit (from infrastructure cost, to tire pollution, clean up and so on) the difference astronomically favors the ebike. There are roughly 8 parking spaces per car in the US alone. The energy cost of that alone easily dwarfs recycling the batteries in an ebike.
Old 25th May 2018
  #129
Off to the Anza-Borego desert for a weekend of rock crawling and some target shooting in the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Sometimes I rescue a wayward Land Rover that gets in too far over their head and wheel clearance.

Only 81 degrees there tomorrow, a cool wave I've been waiting for. It's been cloudy and cool in the 60's along the coast here so I'm ready for some sun and fun.
Old 26th May 2018
  #130
Lives for gear
 
DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Off to the Anza-Borego desert for a weekend of rock crawling and some target shooting in the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Sometimes I rescue a wayward Land Rover that gets in too far over their head and wheel clearance.

Only 81 degrees there tomorrow, a cool wave I've been waiting for. It's been cloudy and cool in the 60's along the coast here so I'm ready for some sun and fun.
Sounds like fun. I usually go there with my telescope. Great star gazing.

Have you explored the mud caves:

Old 26th May 2018
  #131
Lives for gear
 
DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFoster View Post
I'ma take the exact opposite approach as Jim next month... I get to run my car wide open at Pocono Raceway -- a 2.5 mile, excellently groomed triangular superspeedway!

I'm pretty excited, as it's a rare opportunity in the states to reach these sorts of speeds in a reasonably safe/controlled (and legal) manner.
Last month I got to drive the Fontana Speedway. I was there for a Porsche event. They also had an Autocross setup in the parking lot. Did that multiple times. Great fun!
Old 26th May 2018
  #132
Lives for gear
 
Jeff Hayat's Avatar
 

Picked this up at the end of Dec. a '13 w/34k miles. Has a couple of little quirks - things you would not expect from a $65k car, but once I get past those, I could not be happier.
Attached Thumbnails
All you slutz - let's see your transport.....-jeffcar-01.jpg   All you slutz - let's see your transport.....-jeffcar-04.jpg  
Old 26th May 2018
  #133
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougS View Post
Sounds like fun. I usually go there with my telescope. Great star gazing.

Have you explored the mud caves:

Yes, I have walked most all of them. Some have collapsed after last year's rains like Sandstone Canyon, now cut off. I used to drive all the way through and out the back.

I managed to get a huge steel spike in one of my Dick Cepec mud terrain tires. It maybe a railroad spike as I was by the tracks. It was real fun changing that in the middle on nowhere as the sun set.

Then my spare was low, like 12 lbs pressure. It was real fun getting home. I was the only one out there, it's empty this time of year. The wind was howling too. Now I get to find out if that new tire is trashed or can be repaired. Lady luck wasn't with me this trip.
Old 26th May 2018
  #134
Lives for gear
 
DougS's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Yes, I have walked most all of them. Some have collapsed after last year's rains like Sandstone Canyon, now cut off. I used to drive all the way through and out the back.

I managed to get a huge steel spike in one of my Dick Cepec mud terrain tires. It maybe a railroad spike as I was by the tracks. It was real fun changing that in the middle on nowhere as the sun set.

Then my spare was low, like 12 lbs pressure. It was real fun getting home. I was the only one out there, it's empty this time of year. The wind was howling too. Now I get to find out if that new tire is trashed or can be repaired. Lady luck wasn't with me this trip.
Glad you made it home okay.

...I'm sure you were thinking:Maybe I should have packed that portable air pump. Or, since this is GearSlutz, maybe install an onboard air system for your rig.
Old 27th May 2018
  #135
Yeah, like I forgot the air dragon and even a chair too. Total screw up on my part.
Old 31st May 2018
  #136
Lives for gear
Toying with Tesla next time, although the Porsche is still working just fine right now. Intrigued to see what the MissionE brings to the table, aside from a lot of expenditure!

That said, I might just go Turbo next time, sod it. I recycle anyway, so my little impact on the overall carbon footprint is minimal. And TBH, I don't care: mot when there's bigger worse offenders to vilify than me

Glad to see this made it to page 5 though


Dan
Old 31st May 2018
  #137
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 

I spent last weekend driving a friend's new I3, BMW's electric. I liked it more than I though I would - instant torque, no noise and a pretty cool little package purpose built to be an E car.

It makes sense as a city car or suburban runabout, but not so much as a main car, unless you work close to home, or at home; its range isn't so stellar (about 170 miles with the gas engine generator).

Still, it's a much more "finished" package than you'd expect, and it's promising to see from a major marque.
Old 31st May 2018
  #138
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The idea that an automatic transmission is more progressive and technologically advanced is misguided and wrong...they're convenient and easier for the driver, but they are relatively simple, inefficient and allow less control.
I agree with all that. And my 318Ti would be useless with an automatic. And one of these days, crawling through an LA canyon at rush hour, my left leg is going to fall off.
Old 31st May 2018
  #139
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
I agree with all that. And my 318Ti would be useless with an automatic. And one of these days, crawling through an LA canyon at rush hour, my left leg is going to fall off.
Another reason to always have a roll of 'gaffa' and a sewing kit on hand...
Old 31st May 2018
  #140
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
In a decade or 3 we will be moved over to solid state batteries, and likely even the next best thing after them. ICE has gone just about as far as it can go in terms of wheel-to-wheel efficiency, there are not any major potential breakthroughs in the pipeline there. The same can not be said for battery tech relative to EV's. We know that better tech is just around the corner in SSE's and there will be the possibility to further refine that tech...
We still have to mine the raw materials to make the batteries and we will still have to dispose of the waste when they're spent regardless of how long they last. At least into the near to medium future most of the power to keep those fancy new batteries charged will be generated from fossil fuel and nuclear. Did I mention the kids in the Congo...?

Quote:
Of course there is no free lunch, but attempting to use the simple reality that nothing is perfect to go after an ebike really undermines your whole position here. Especially if you are hoping to be perceived as objective.
If you consider the totalistic energy cost of ebike-as-transit to car-as-transit (from infrastructure cost, to tire pollution, clean up and so on) the difference astronomically favors the ebike. There are roughly 8 parking spaces per car in the US alone. The energy cost of that alone easily dwarfs recycling the batteries in an ebike.
Please go back and read my posts carefully and understand what was said and implied before you argue a position that was never advanced...I know how to suck eggs.

I don't really care what people choose to drive or how that choice makes them feel about themselves, but we seem to be hell bent on creating another mongoose problem for profit, and as usual the Kool Aid is fresh and sweet but this time the effects will affect the entire world.
Old 1st June 2018
  #141
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
I don't really care what people choose to drive or how that choice makes them feel about themselves, but we seem to be hell bent on creating another mongoose problem for profit, and as usual the Kool Aid is fresh and sweet but this time the effects will affect the entire world.
I've got 5,000 miles on my ebike in about 2 years, I can cruise at 20mph with 140 watts coming from the motor, with my 3 year old daughter on the back and doing that instead of driving.

My car has a 480 wH battery. But you are going to get bent out of shape on 900wH battery that's in my bike? The car also weighs 43.4 times more, requires many other parts that are also mined, 20 mph in the car requires around 25HP, the bike takes .18hp. The bike requires no parking spaces, 1/8th the road space and put's infinitesimal wear and tear on the asphalt.

If you are unable to see that the one is using substantially less resources than the other, including the battery, it is you have drunk the kool-aid here. Except yours isn't fresh or sweet.

Personally if you drove the most gas guzzling car and simply said you didn't care about it's impact, I would respect that a lot more than what you have going on here.

Last edited by RyanC; 1st June 2018 at 08:50 AM..
Old 1st June 2018
  #142
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I've got 5,000 miles on my ebike in about 2 years, I can cruise at 20mph with 140 watts coming from the motor, with my 3 year old daughter on the back and doing that instead of driving.

My car has a 480 wH battery. But you are going to get bent out of shape on 900wH battery that's in my bike? The car also weighs 43.4 times more, requires many other parts that are also mined, 20 mph in the car requires around 25HP, the bike takes .18. The bike requires no parking spaces, 1/8th the road space and put's infinitesimal wear and tear on the asphalt.

If you are unable to see that the one is using substantially less resources than the other, including the battery, it is you have drunk the kool-aid here. Except yours isn't fresh or sweet.

Personally if you drove the most gas guzzling car and simply said you didn't care about it's impact, I would respect that a lot more than what you have going on here.
Its called reading comprehension....read and understand what was said and/or implied before you argue uselessly.

I am NOT arguing or getting bent about battery powered bikes (or cars) for that matter so please continue to feel as proud as you think necessary about your ownership and use of it.

If however you would like to have a meaningful discussion about where all these batteries will end up when they die...
Old 1st June 2018
  #143
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
If however you would like to have a meaningful discussion about where all these batteries will end up when they die...
Sure man, I'm interested in your thoughts there. But I would like to hear you compare that to what happens with all the wells, and pipelines, and fracking rigs, changed oil and so on when they die.

Maybe I just misread you, but it seems you are pretty heavily counting the cons on one side while not counting them on the other...Cars do have batteries too (generally lead acid, which aren't great either).

My overall point is that EV's overall, and the development of EV's promotes a lot of action in the area of small format personal transit. Which is an area where internal combustion engines has never really performed well...especially if the goals are to make it efficient, quiet, with clean exhaust etc. By the time you have a ECU controlled EFI, opposed cylinder ICE, with a muffler and so on it's pretty big, and dirty. A little e-scooter can be the last mile from mass transit to someones house. This can then lead to a very significant gain in net energy/resource use compared to the ICE/car model that we have held.

Even in an electric car, a electric motor is far simpler than ICE. Typically they are lubricated once for life, it's smaller, lighter, has more torque, and less moving parts etc.

It seems to me like you are singling out one downside and extrapolating that to mean that it instantaneously outweighs all the downsides on 'the other side'. I would be interested to hear you address both.
Old 1st June 2018
  #144
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Sure man, I'm interested in your thoughts there. But I would like to hear you compare that to what happens with all the wells, and pipelines, and fracking rigs, changed oil and so on when they die....................

............It seems to me like you are singling out one downside and extrapolating that to mean that it instantaneously outweighs all the downsides on 'the other side'. I would be interested to hear you address both.
Don't be in such a hurry to argue, and stop being such a zealot, this is not a zero-sum situation, just because I raise valid questions about one does not mean I'm all for the other...because I am NOT, you're the one extrapolating here, and doing so incorrectly.

The real issue here is that we already have a bad situation and instead of making this right we're jumping into another situation that haven't been thought through completely and properly. You should take the time to really examine the Mongoose reference...

Another interesting point is that the same people who are making money now with fossil fuel are some of the same people who will make money with electric cars, should tell you something. These discussions should be argued from a more universal point of view for the obvious reason is that the problem is bigger that our personal situations and bigger than the towns we live in.
Old 1st June 2018
  #145
Speaking about electric technology, I thought this one was kool.

Old 2nd June 2018
  #146
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Don't be in such a hurry to argue, and stop being such a zealot,
How about we both agree to do that? You have my word on a truce-

To be clear, I'm not zealous about electric cars, where I am 'ahem' passionate is in the area of small format personal transportation, and how EV tech enables it. Here's why-

My bike can discharge roughly 800 wH on a charge (I have battery protection set fairly high), and it takes right around 1 kWh to charge it measured at the wall.

From that I can get 50 (+!) miles of actual city transit, this is up and down hills and between 20-28mph, with a 3 year old and supplies on back of a long tail bike actual real world numbers.

There are 33.7 kWh in a gallon of gas, so 33.7 x 50 miles per kW means I'm getting 1685 mpg.

It would be fair to factor some deductions because of grid losses, coal power plant etc, and of course battery disposal...but it would also be fair to factor some deductions on the ICE side for distribution losses, spill/clean up losses, evaporation losses, oil changes and so on.

But in any case let's say the battery is SO bad that we agree to cut my numbers in half, or even in a quarter, it's still getting over 400mpg. A gas powered bicycle at best is getting around 160 mpg. It also hot, noisy, illegal on MUT's, needs more maintenance, oil changes and too small to fit a clean running ICE with all the extras that takes.

I'd be super interested if someone could make a quiet, low soot, low maintenance diesel that could rival small format EV's...I might start making bio-diesel again! (No I won't, that sucked!)

I think it's fair to say that ebikes aren't guilty of the 'mongoose-effect' here though. Yes the battery is a downside, but the upsides DO outweigh the downsides put in actual context by quite a significant margin.

Last edited by RyanC; 3rd June 2018 at 03:19 AM..
Old 3rd June 2018
  #147
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
Speaking about electric technology, I thought this one was kool.

Very cool, but still not even close to an ebike because the motor is direct drive and can't freewheel.

Still this is very good stuff, the number one thing is getting people out of the "I need a car" mentality.

Where I live in Denver, at rush hour, the bike paths are literally a liberal paradise...thousands of people sharing a public resource (the bike path), in a way that the very same people wouldn't share the road. Even the older white men, who have frankly have shown in modern society that 'sharing' isn't an area where the accel, can do it VERY well outside of a 'car and road' picture.

Hell I'm 39, I grew up loving the engineering of badass cars, I still do. But for transit, we can do better. On my bike I count the number of people on the bike paths vs the road, and my bike can still do 28mph on the road. When you look at 1000 cars we tend to think it's a lot of people, but the fact is it's only maybe 1100 people, most of them not hauling anything but themselves. In comparison 1000 bikes (and escooters and eskateboards), only looks like 1000 people because that's actually what it is.

We think we need the car format way more than we do.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #148
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Very cool, but still not even close to an ebike because the motor is direct drive and can't freewheel.

Still this is very good stuff, the number one thing is getting people out of the "I need a car" mentality.

Where I live in Denver, at rush hour, the bike paths are literally a liberal paradise...thousands of people sharing a public resource (the bike path), in a way that the very same people wouldn't share the road. Even the older white men, who have frankly have shown in modern society that 'sharing' isn't an area where the accel, can do it VERY well outside of a 'car and road' picture.

Hell I'm 39, I grew up loving the engineering of badass cars, I still do. But for transit, we can do better. On my bike I count the number of people on the bike paths vs the road, and my bike can still do 28mph on the road. When you look at 1000 cars we tend to think it's a lot of people, but the fact is it's only maybe 1100 people, most of them not hauling anything but themselves. In comparison 1000 bikes (and escooters and eskateboards), only looks like 1000 people because that's actually what it is.

We think we need the car format way more than we do.
It'll be interesting to see what new electric vehicles roll off the shelf. Tesla is pushing the envelope, I'm surprised they haven't designed any bikes.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #149
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
It'll be interesting to see what new electric vehicles roll off the shelf. Tesla is pushing the envelope, I'm surprised they haven't designed any bikes.
It would be great if they did, one thing ebikes need is more specific parts engineered for them. I eat through brake pads for example. Also none of them are sold with a reliable tire situation. I'm running tubeless with extra sealant and cush core, a foam insert that makes it very reliable in terms of flats but keeps the weight still in the 'bicycle' realm.

Also IMO we should have a ebikes that can be more road-worthy up to around 30mph, head light, tail lights, turn signals etc and then has a bike path mode that drops the top speed down. A larger company like Tesla could do a lot to push the pot here- but it seems to be happening on its own as well, just slowly.
Old 3rd June 2018
  #150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synth Guru View Post
It'll be interesting to see what new electric vehicles roll off the shelf. Tesla is pushing the envelope, I'm surprised they haven't designed any bikes.
Tesla relies on government subsidies and bennies. If they were entirely on their own they would be Tucker.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump