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what gives - people admitting they use cracked software
Old 27th April 2011
  #1
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RatsRatsRats's Avatar
what gives - people admitting they use cracked software

So I'm noticing a lot more producers these days are writing music on cracked software, this isn't anything new, obviously but it's pretty disgusting when they openly admit it on their facebooks or twitter... meh.

Just ranting, anyone else get bothered by this? It's almost like they're bragging...
Old 27th April 2011
  #2
ark
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I don't understand why anyone would try to make money from intellectual property (i.e. by producing music) if they're not willing to respect the intellectual property of their suppliers.

I guess there are a lot of hypocrites out there.
Old 27th April 2011
  #3
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Rape, murder, serious assault, racism, homophobia etc is pretty disgusting

people admitting they have a cd with a cracked copy of cubase 3.7 hardly keeps me awake at night.
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Old 27th April 2011
  #4
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The most infamous case of this sort of thing (that I'm aware of) is someone from Yacht admitting that they used cracked versions of Audio Damage products (which are very reasonably priced, I might add).

This quite understandably pissed off Chris Randall of AD, who blogged about the ordeal. Chris's original open letter appears to be online, but you can read his response to Yacht's apology over @ Analog Industries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ark View Post
I don't understand why anyone would try to make money from intellectual property (i.e. by producing music) if they're not willing to respect the intellectual property of their suppliers.

I guess there are a lot of hypocrites out there.
Absolutely. Well said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
Rape, murder, serious assault, racism, homophobia etc is pretty disgusting

people admitting they have a cd with a cracked copy of cubase 3.7 hardly keeps me awake at night.
You're obviously not a programmer.

Also, I don't think the issue is whether or not someone has a CD with some cracked software, but rather whether or not professional musicians should make their living using pirated software (which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment).
Old 27th April 2011
  #5
Here for the gear
 

arent most of these highend software programs made so that they can not be duplicated and cracked....
Old 27th April 2011
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
(which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment).
like the Sex Pistols.
modern youthful rebellion.
Old 27th April 2011
  #7
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which producers?
Old 27th April 2011
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aproblem View Post
which producers?
I would imagine many more then you would expect...
Old 27th April 2011
  #9
Old 27th April 2011
  #10
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I agree. Musicians who use stolen software should definitely not talk about it publically.
Old 27th April 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lb00 View Post
arent most of these highend software programs made so that they can not be duplicated and cracked....
Manufacturers try. But most software is ultimately cracked regardless. Very few escape piracy totally.

-----------

What I find perhaps more surprising, is not so much that we know established artists use and have admitted to using hooky software.. But HOW MANY of them are using hooky software. I can nigh on guarantee that it's an awful lot more artists than you thought..
Old 27th April 2011
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment
sublime both did and boasted about this.
Old 27th April 2011
  #13
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MarcB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
You're obviously not a programmer.

Also, I don't think the issue is whether or not someone has a CD with some cracked software, but rather whether or not professional musicians should make their living using pirated software (which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment).
Do programmers usually regard copyright theft higher than rape and murder ?

Actually, I used to be a PL-1 programmer around 1990, but now I work for the Ministry of Justice.
Old 27th April 2011
  #14
Whats really funny is I bet most of the people on this forum have spent thousands of dollars on hardware synths and equipment, yet still work with H2O cubase sx3
Old 27th April 2011
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
You're obviously not a programmer.

Also, I don't think the issue is whether or not someone has a CD with some cracked software, but rather whether or not professional musicians should make their living using pirated software (which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment).
I make a living coding and I also agree with marcB.
Old 27th April 2011
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ark View Post
I don't understand why anyone would try to make money from intellectual property (i.e. by producing music) if they're not willing to respect the intellectual property of their suppliers.
Well said.

It makes no sense at all.
Old 27th April 2011
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Yoozer's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by lb00 View Post
arent most of these highend software programs made so that they can not be duplicated and cracked....
Asking a computer to not copy something is like asking water to be not wet.

Bragging about it is completely stupid. What exactly is there to be proud of?

Console yourself with the idea that if they can't be motivated to pay they're usually not motivated to make anything of value with it, either. 200 cracked plugins and not an ounce of talent.
Old 27th April 2011
  #18
Gear Addict
 

I like the pricing model that Cockos uses for Reaper, where you pay a much lower price if you don't make any real money from your music. I think they have converted a few would-be pirates into paying customers that way.

BTW, your computer "copies" your software every time you run it.. From the hard drive to RAM (and pieces of it also gets copied to the cache memory of your CPU)
Old 27th April 2011
  #19
Mr Arkadin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
Do programmers usually regard copyright theft higher than rape and murder ?
Very black and white world you live in. Nicking your wallet isn't as bad as rape or murder but it's still a crime. Should we ignore all crimes that aren't rape or murder?
Old 27th April 2011
  #20
Lives for gear
I love Yacht! I can't believe it...if more people continue to use pirated software it's gonna put the programers out of business...people are gonna have to start using hardware again. I now understand there's a crack of even Waves at this point!!! The version that goes for $6000. Its gonna hurt the manufactures...
Old 27th April 2011
  #21
Gear Nut
 

I am a programmer...

I do program for a living, and I've had my stuff pirated. It's a fact of life, really. I sleep much better once I took that attitude.

I do pay for software that I make money from - and I use a ton a free software (GPL, Apache license, etc.) also. I also "borrow" cracked software as a form a demo to play with if the software has no demo already. If there wasn't a cracked version I would probably pass on trying the software already, and I've bought software I've tried this way after discovering if I would use it or not. If it has value to me, I buy it. If I can't decide if it has value, then it doesn't.

I also wouldn't equate software with hardware in any way: A piece of hardware (synth, effect, etc.) has a physical value. I can sell it if I don't like it, maybe cost me a little bit. Lots of software has restrictive licenses and codes that are hard to transfer, etc. Not the same thing, really.

As for copy protection/codes, etc. I wish the companies would just give it up. It creates a nightmare of authorizations and activations to the point where even if I own the software I'm often using the crack anyway, just to avoid the complications. And it will be cracked - haven't seen anything that wasn't.

C
Old 27th April 2011
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codeslave9000 View Post
I do program for a living, and I've had my stuff pirated. It's a fact of life, really. I sleep much better once I took that attitude.

I do pay for software that I make money from - and I use a ton a free software (GPL, Apache license, etc.) also. I also "borrow" cracked software as a form a demo to play with if the software has no demo already. If there wasn't a cracked version I would probably pass on trying the software already, and I've bought software I've tried this way after discovering if I would use it or not. If it has value to me, I buy it. If I can't decide if it has value, then it doesn't.

I also wouldn't equate software with hardware in any way: A piece of hardware (synth, effect, etc.) has a physical value. I can sell it if I don't like it, maybe cost me a little bit. Lots of software has restrictive licenses and codes that are hard to transfer, etc. Not the same thing, really.

As for copy protection/codes, etc. I wish the companies would just give it up. It creates a nightmare of authorizations and activations to the point where even if I own the software I'm often using the crack anyway, just to avoid the complications. And it will be cracked - haven't seen anything that wasn't.

C
You might want to print this out and keep it handy.

I believe you have one or two rationalizations in there that will give the FBI a few laughs when they kick down your door...

Using cracked software for any reason is theft, period.

And living in a black-and-white world is quite nice, thank you...
Old 27th April 2011
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
Using cracked software for any reason is theft, period.
Not true. I have stuff that I bought that is orphaned and just flat runs better with the cracks. I have a license that I paid for and the software doesn't work properly or the company no longer exists or it is no longer supported. The law says I have a right to do what I need to do to run the software.
Old 27th April 2011
  #24
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
You might want to print this out and keep it handy.

I believe you have one or two rationalizations in there that will give the FBI a few laughs when they kick down your door...

Using cracked software for any reason is theft, period.

And living in a black-and-white world is quite nice, thank you...
Even the law isn't black-and-white - never was. As pointed out in another post, if I own the software I have the right to use it - even if that requires extraordinary means.

Rationalizations aside, it isn't legally theft to use cracked software - it's copyright infringement. And there's only criminal liability for infringement on a commercial scale IIRC from my Harvard IP law courses. (IANAL) Civil liability is another matter, but that has costs for both sides.

Just because nobody talks about it doesn't mean it goes away - And if it (making the software) weren't commercially viable (i.e. nobody bought the software) then there wouldn't be any companies doing it.

I'm not making any new arguments, nor arguing that anyone should go out and deprive people (like myself, remember I write this software!) of an income, but acknowledging that this exists and that the infrastructure is broken. Even if there were no authorization codes or activations there would exist the underground. And I'd still buy exactly the same amount of software I do today: That which is worth it to me.

Use it: Pay for it. Don't use it: Recommend and review it. Nobody loses.
Old 27th April 2011
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
RatsRatsRats's Avatar
This stems from seeing a fellow producer asking on Facebook if anyone could help her find a cracked version of massive that doesn't crash when importing plugins...

however stretched past music, I've seen members of a old band that I was pretty big into asking on his personal facebook for links to a hacked copy of iLife 11'... this guy runs a record label btw... not saying any names but... it's just... idk, I don't understand some people.

glad we were able to get some good discussion going about it
Old 27th April 2011
  #26
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Maybe Audio Damage could post all of Yacht's music for free on their website as a return favor. I like a good "Eye for an Eye" story.
Old 27th April 2011
  #27
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MarcB's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Arkadin View Post
Very black and white world you live in. Nicking your wallet isn't as bad as rape or murder but it's still a crime. Should we ignore all crimes that aren't rape or murder?
Not really, maybe I just think that there's more to life than getting all flustered, upset and claiming moral high ground over what some tosser posts on his facebook/twitter page regarding cracked software.

If people breaking the law upsets you so much , join the fuzz

Maybe I should join movie production forums and post threads stating that I've been around to a friends house and to my complete disgust they recorded a movie off the TV!!!
Old 27th April 2011
  #28
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ 1UP View Post
So I'm noticing a lot more producers these days are writing music on cracked software, this isn't anything new, obviously but it's pretty disgusting when they openly admit it on their facebooks or twitter... meh.

Just ranting, anyone else get bothered by this? It's almost like they're bragging...
Openly admitting it on Facebook or Twitter?

My, how intelligent.

Seems to me that the software companies' enforcement divisions are being handed a gift - let's hope they take advantage of it.

You know, in the old days in pirate circles it was always regarded as immoral to profit from pirated software or use it for commercial purposes. People who did that were ostracized of even on occasion turned in if they were bringing heat on the scene.

Incidentally, those people are not really "producers" - a real producer is somebody like Tony Visconti, George Martin, or Sandy Pearlman.

Urban Dictionary: producer

Definitions (1) and (6)
Old 27th April 2011
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BTByrd View Post
The most infamous case of this sort of thing (that I'm aware of) is someone from Yacht admitting that they used cracked versions of Audio Damage products (which are very reasonably priced, I might add).

This quite understandably pissed off Chris Randall of AD, who blogged about the ordeal. Chris's original open letter appears to be online, but you can read his response to Yacht's apology over @ Analog Industries.



Absolutely. Well said!



You're obviously not a programmer.

Also, I don't think the issue is whether or not someone has a CD with some cracked software, but rather whether or not professional musicians should make their living using pirated software (which is arguably akin to recording with stolen equipment).
There's no "ARGUABLY" about it. It's the same thing.
Old 27th April 2011
  #30
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcB View Post
Do programmers usually regard copyright theft higher than rape and murder ?

Actually, I used to be a PL-1 programmer around 1990, but now I work for the Ministry of Justice.
You work for the Ministry of Justice? And you don't regard piracy as a serious crime?

Well, there we have it in a nutshell - one of the biggest problems with fighting piracy is that the very people invested with the task of enforcing the law and protecting our rights do not take the problem seriously.

You should be ashamed of yourself.
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