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So now that Piracy is unstoppable... Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 11th January 2011
  #181
Lives for gear
 

can someone explain to me how there are sides which look like online shops where albums are offered for free and these sides are not immediately closed down?
I don't get it.
Old 11th January 2011
  #182
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
There are too many dabblers on Gearslutz.
What does "dabbler" mean to you? I read it as someone who is not in the industry full time. Is that what you mean?

Gearlslutz is free, and I'm sure they make the bulk of the money to support the site by advertising. The more people who view their ads the better rates they can get from advertisers. So... more is better from their perspective, I'd think. I think that's why they haven't done anything to discourage "dabblers."

You might consider starting a pros only forum... I think you'd probably be quite successful at it, there probably is a great business model there. How about a pros only forum where "dabblers" can only get read only access? Might be a good moneymaking opportunity for someone there...

Quote:
They seem to think dabbling is as good as it gets and anyone who does more than dabble is sooooo lucky they should shut up and let anyone and everyone take them for fools.
As someone who *might* be considered a "dabbler" to you, I don't think this describes how I or anyone else in my circle of "dabbler" friends looks at it.
Old 11th January 2011
  #183
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero1dtd View Post
Yeah.. well to me it looks like someone is doing the big T service. I think Im going to leave this where it lie
Sorry...big T service? What does that mean?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Music will effectively stop being sold commercially (as in big record label selling you an album), artists will record themselves thanks to new technollogy, music will be spread over the internet at no cost or by means of donations (kinda like old underground punk rock band tapes shared hand by hand, word of mouth).

Artists with a bigger fan base or followers may hire an engineer to improve their sound, all earnings are based on donations (kinda like the "Radiohead" model but at its fullest, something like myspace with a paypal "donate" button) and merch sales, concerts, etc....

Music as a business will be over, however making a living from music will still be possible depending on the number of donations/fans, merch & concerts sales. Which could be a good thing since it would mean that music would have to likely improve... or music would have to be good enough to at least be able to attract a lot of people with out massive media exposure.
Agree


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
No other industry has allowed it's product to be pilfered on a massively grand scale. Do you see that changing at all?
I think this was aimed at me. Excuse me if its not. Anyway..I don't know. I get into a debate like this more of a social critic type thing.
I'm sort of interested in future outcomes based on human behavior to put it crudely.
Piracy may be the instigator, but where this trend leads to how people behave towards, and feel about music is my interest.
I've had my own industry turned upside down because of a 'cheapening' in the public perception of that product.
Music has also become a 'cheap' commodity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Secondly, it's not really about me, and me 'protecting' anything.
I care about music, and I care about innovative young musicians, if nothing else but because I live for exciting, fresh music.
So if you were to ask me what I cared about most - the livelihoods and survival of the next generation of musicians, or the anarchistic rabble just taking whatever they want....... I think I'll go with the young musicians. How about you?
This is where I'd disagree wholeheartedly. Do you really believe that people...these young people and next generations you mention...all bursting with creativity...are all going to stop making music or be deterred by the fact that there may no longer be a 'music industry'....or even a way to earn a living by just making music???

However the future outcomes of all this, people will be born into it and that'll be their norm....and in the transitional periods people already alive either adapt or find something else to do.
What I see here in these debates are people arguing the immediate present tense. Things will change. Granted you can have some influence, major or minor in that change, but there will be change nonetheless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
I have a feeling when there are consequences for their actions their behavior will change. The wild west wasn't wild forever, and I would not expect the internet to be either.
I'm very afraid of, and it seems to unfortunately be the way we're headed, this potential monitoring of every man, women and child.

As appalling as it is for government to be doing it, its doubly appalling in its implementation as a way for any particular industry's monetary stronghold.
Old 11th January 2011
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
As appalling as it is for government to be doing it, its doubly appalling in its implementation as a way for any particular industry's monetary stronghold.
The first cry of the pirates at ANY suggestion of enforcement is to go immediately to a conspiracy theory 1984 panic/freak out. I think I'd suggest a bit of temperament in understanding that illegally free can not, and should not be an accepted norm.

At this time, the piracy apologist want only a world where piracy rules - I can not see that being the case indefinitely and we're definitely seeing more movement in the last year than we've seen in several years prior to it.

5 New Anti-Piracy Strategies

Commerce Dept to assign Internet ID for all Americans!

YouTube now liable for all content in Italy

Google finally decides to do more about piracy

Feds seize more piracy/counterfeiting domains

RapidShare Fined Over Copyrights
Old 11th January 2011
  #185
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
What does "dabbler" mean to you? I read it as someone who is not in the industry full time. Is that what you mean?
To me, it means someone with no skin in the game. the sell shoes, work in IT, are a rocket scientist, produce corporate video, are working on the cure for cancer... it doesn't really matter, what matters is they are an outsider to the effects of piracy in their own lives and effecting their own livelihoods.

That's fine, but don't be surprised when those directly effected by piracy stand up and report their factual and true first hand experiences as working professionals, day in, day out.

No one should be surprised or offended when attacking someone's elses living that there is push back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
Gearlslutz is free, and I'm sure they make the bulk of the money to support the site by advertising. The more people who view their ads the better rates they can get from advertisers. So... more is better from their perspective, I'd think. I think that's why they haven't done anything to discourage "dabblers."
No doubt the GS piracy forums would be more popular if they mimicked threads on "torrentfreak" without any push back.

A little respect goes a long way which appears to be absent from the discussions and talking points coming from the "Dabblers" - starting a post with something like "You Dinosaurs" or agist comments like "You Old Men" etc - set the tone that there is both a lack of respect and an agenda from the outset.

How many times can there be posts, or entire threads dedicated to pirate talking points as if stealing is a God given right at birth. Do you not find that the least bit offensive? How many people supporting piracy in these threads has any actual experience with the effects of piracy? Those who steal, and those who are stolen from are going to have vastly different perspectives.

One would hope that the ongoing responses to Piracy 101 talking points, might actually educate some of these people to the reality and consequences of their actions, especially when being related to them by actual working industry professionals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
You might consider starting a pros only forum... I think you'd probably be quite successful at it, there probably is a great business model there. How about a pros only forum where "dabblers" can only get read only access? Might be a good moneymaking opportunity for someone there...
It's been openly suggested to Jules with different variations under the new forum rules. I don't think it's going to happen. So we'll have to agree to disagree about how people see things, particularly based on the perspective of if they are, or are not, working professionals.

I think in the piracy threads it's very clear to see who has "skin in the game" and who does not.

I was only half joking when I said GS doesn't have an Anti-Piracy forum, it truly does have a Piracy forum and that's how it is named.

Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
As someone who *might* be considered a "dabbler" to you, I don't think this describes how I or anyone else in my circle of "dabbler" friends looks at it.
I'm unclear as to what you are referring to here, but if you have no skin in the game, if the effects of piracy have no personal impact on your living, your income, you business, your future - you might well be a dabbler if only a toe is in the water as opposed to being a swimmer in shark infested waters... which pretty much sums up most pro's below the super star level who have already made it safely to shore, or back in the boat.
Old 11th January 2011
  #186
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticsWizard View Post
Piracy is not as prevalent as you think. When a person downloads a crack, chances are they are loaded with viruses. And they usually are.
Used to pirate basically every DAW and plugin I used. Most of them don't have viruses actually.

Come to think of it I don't think I've ever actually managed to get a virus from any of the cracked software I downloaded.

Slowly trying to buy the plugins I've become accustomed to. FL studio's half off sale was a great starting point.
Old 11th January 2011
  #187
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
A little respect goes a long way which appears to be absent from the discussions and talking points coming from the "Dabblers" - starting a post with something like "You Dinosaurs" or agist comments like "You Old Men" etc - set the tone that there is both a lack of respect and an agenda from the outset.
I had said something about older established people being out of touch with the changes that are happening, and if you go back and look at my first post in this thread you will see I was simply trying to lend a different perspective to the discussion that is not from either side. It may not offer a practical or realistic solution, but I was simply trying to be helpful. So if you would like to talk about setting the tone for a lack of respect and agenda go back and read my first post in this thread on page 5, and read John's response to me. That is where the tone was set for lack of respect as far as my position in this debate. So likewise, a little respect would go a long way if you would like people to sympathize with you.
Old 11th January 2011
  #188
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
I had said something about older established people being out of touch with the changes that are happening, and if you go back and look at my first post in this thread you will see I was simply trying to lend a different perspective to the discussion that is not from either side. It may not offer a practical or realistic solution, but I was simply trying to be helpful. So if you would like to talk about setting the tone for a lack of respect and agenda go back and read my first post in this thread on page 5, and read John's response to me. That is where the tone was set for lack of respect as far as my position in this debate. So likewise, a little respect would go a long way if you would like people to sympathize with you.
I agree, and I'm guilty, and starting a new I have every desire moving forward to treat my responses with the same "character" and "sense of engagement" that I would meeting a person, in person - over a cup of coffee, or a beer.

I frequently attend, and/or speak on panels, I'll be speaking at SXSW this year. I often have these same conversations, with young people who are hopeful and looking for opportunities to build their own lives.

As a professional with 25 years experience, I usually get swamped at these things - but the nice thing is, there is baseline of respect for me to engage with people of differing opinions about sensitive subjects.

All too often here, posts in the piracy forum are intentionally created for the sole purpose of disruption and to further piracy propaganda. Those are the most difficult and likely the people to be met with the strongest responses.
Old 11th January 2011
  #189
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
I agree, and I'm guilty, and starting a new I have every desire moving forward to treat my responses with the same "character" and "sense of engagement" that I would meeting a person, in person - over a cup of coffee, or a beer.

I frequently attend, and/or speak on panels, I'll be speaking at SXSW this year. I often have these same conversations, with young people who are hopeful and looking for opportunities to build their own lives.

As a professional with 25 years experience, I usually get swamped at these things - but the nice thing is, there is baseline of respect for me to engage with people of differing opinions about sensitive subjects.

All too often here, posts in the piracy forum are intentionally created for the sole purpose of disruption and to further piracy propaganda. Those are the most difficult and likely the people to be met with the strongest responses.
I appreciate that and I will try to do the same. I hope you understand I did not come here to disrupt anything or promote piracy, I was simply trying to lend an outsider position, from someone who does not support or engage in piracy, and is also hopeful of making a full time living from music eventually, but at the same time, does not see it as simply a statistics issue, and thinks there are other problems/causes at work contributing to the bleak future of the industry.

I wish I could attend SXSW this year to hear your panel, but I don't have the money. I respect what you're trying to do though, and I respect that you have been a professional for as long as I have been alive. Cheers.
Old 11th January 2011
  #190
Lives for gear
And I also speak my position with a little experience, because I went through a phase where I would preach to people about supporting music, and illegally downloading stuff. And while some musicians supported what I was saying, in the grand scheme of things it served only to disconnect me from fans, so I decided it is what it is and it is time to figure out a new approach. I haven't gotten far enough to figure out what that is yet, but I will remain looking and don't intend to go backwards.
Old 11th January 2011
  #191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
This is where I'd disagree wholeheartedly. Do you really believe that people...these young people and next generations you mention...all bursting with creativity...are all going to stop making music or be deterred by the fact that there may no longer be a 'music industry'....or even a way to earn a living by just making music???
Yes, I don't think so many will make music their life.
And in any case, why visit more hardship on them?



Quote:
I'm very afraid of, and it seems to unfortunately be the way we're headed, this potential monitoring of every man, women and child.
The truth will out.
Whenever someone says they don't think musicians should be protected from pirates, what they really mean is they are scared of losing their internet freedoms.
Old 11th January 2011
  #192
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post

I'm unclear as to what you are referring to here, but if you have no skin in the game, if the effects of piracy have no personal impact on your living, your income, you business, your future - you might well be a dabbler if only a toe is in the water as opposed to being a swimmer in shark infested waters... which pretty much sums up most pro's below the super star level who have already made it safely to shore, or back in the boat.

Ditto. thumbsup

I've got to say I genuinely worry for the future of young musicians.
I also get frustrated at the posts that claim those against piracy are protecting their own incomes.
It's actually not that popular to be against piracy, nor is it necessarily selfish.
When I look at the people who come on this forum and claim piracy is way over stated, or they worry more about their net freedoms, or that the labels need punishing, or that musicians are 'entitled' in some ugly way, the vast, vast majority are hobbyists, wannabe's or part timers. You can see this by reading other posts they write around Gearslutz. Of course almost all of them have opaque screen names and no links to MySpace or website.
Old 11th January 2011
  #193
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
in the grand scheme of things it served only to disconnect me from fans, so I decided it is what it is and it is time to figure out a new approach.
I hear you, it is a very difficult situation. That's why I worry for young musicians.
My feeling is you are being bullied and pressured into giving music away free. How were you 'disconnected' with your fans, because they refused to buy your tracks or criticised your attitude to piracy?
I regret anyone giving in to bullying.
However I fully understand the difficult situation it's left you in. That's why individuals can't really move this mountain. It needs to be a group effort, an effort where all musicians stand together. Divided we fall!
Old 12th January 2011
  #194
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I hear you, it is a very difficult situation. That's why I worry for young musicians.
My feeling is you are being bullied and pressured into giving music away free. How were you 'disconnected' with your fans, because they refused to buy your tracks or criticised your attitude to piracy?
I regret anyone giving in to bullying.
However I fully understand the difficult situation it's left you in. That's why individuals can't really move this mountain. It needs to be a group effort, an effort where all musicians stand together. Divided we fall!
I think that the "pro-piracy" community is made up mostly of "cool kids" that want to stake their position in the "trendy" population...

I know thats not the case with everyone that is for the theft of hard earned money that artist put into their equipment, studio time, hands, touring cost and everything else involved but yeah....
Old 12th January 2011
  #195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
How all this all plays out is more interesting than the constant back and forth bickering of its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not...
There's no bickering about it. It's illegal. That what the law says. It's not a matter of opinion.

Quote:
Face it, music and movies are a cheap commodity. Everyone can entertain themselves making music banging on a garbage can lid and uploading the video onto youtube for the world to see. Everyone can be their own little music/movie studio. It has an effect on the brain in that no one looks at entertainment as something of special value anymore.
I wouldn't expect anybody to pay for a recording of some idiot banging on a garbage can lid. Nobody else here would, either.

And I don't think that anybody would seriously try to claim that such banging was actual entertainment or has any effect on the value of real entertainment unless that person had some sort of agenda or was under the influence of such a person or persons.
Old 12th January 2011
  #196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Like your industry is the only one that has/is been changed and are the only people that have had their lives turned upside down or destroyed by it?

Everyone gets it. Everyone knows it. Its stealing, ok. And you can keep repeating the mantra over and over, but it means nothing because its being done nonetheless.
You're fighting for your livelihood, everyone gets that too. So what are you going to do when the overwhelming force of a huge number of people worldwide no longer believe in the value of what you're selling???
Except that those people DO, IN FACT believe in the value of what we're selling.

People don't steal what they don't value.

When they say they don't value it they're lying - making excuses for their bad behavior. F-ing cowards.
Old 12th January 2011
  #197
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I wouldn't expect anybody to pay for a recording of some idiot banging on a garbage can lid. Nobody else here would, either.

Thats just a bit of hyperbole to make a point. Not to be taken literally. I merely saying what any contemporary social critic/scientist type nowadays would...that the internet and technology has made everyone content providers with the world their potential audience

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Except that those people DO, IN FACT believe in the value of what we're selling. People don't steal what they don't value.
I think people will take what they can. That people will download music , I believe, is not necessarily driven by any sort of sense of value in the way you or others mean it. The value, if any, is that it can be downloaded for free..thats the value in it.
Sure, people value music to the extent that people like to have music to listen to, but that may be the extent of their investment in it.
I mean, lol, if they REALLY valued it, they'd pay for it! heh
Old 12th January 2011
  #198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
I merely saying what any contemporary social critic/scientist type nowadays would...that the internet and technology has made everyone content providers with the world their potential audience
The way it's worked historically for hundreds of years is this......
'This' being human behaviour by the way.

There's always been free content.
People will inevitably seek out content that fills their need for quality, in their own subjective opinion. If they can't find that quality in 'free' they'll end up buying it.
Yes, the internet has made everyone content providers, but the ratio of quality to blech is not much different to what it was before. The difference is due to illegal activity, very high quality content is also available free.
That's an un-natural distortion, and nothing to do with the notion that 'the internet and technology made everyone content providers'. Piracy has made everyone a free provider, and most at the quality end of the scene, unwilling free providers.
Old 12th January 2011
  #199
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post

Pretty much everyone I know is an avid music fan that still buys music either on cd or vinyl. Maybe I am equally biased because I am most exposed to the opposite extreme. I also take into account the perspectives these people have on the record industry as a whole and the popular music they push. That perspective? They are crooks that just want your money, and are willing to sell you the same **** over and over if they have reason to believe you will buy it. I know this is not true of the industry as a whole, but it is getting harder and harder to defend.
You see? THAT's the kind of sh*t that pisses me off. How many people do you know who have actually WORKED for a (real) record company?

Sure, over the years there have been a couple of (very highly publicized) bad apples - but for every Saul Zaentz there are dozens of Howie Kleins*. It's like in any business. Actually most business are much worse than music in that respect.

Quote:
If the industry placed more emphasis on music rather than marketing, people would see that instantly and opinions would change. But saying "majors can't develop artists because of piracy" is essentially saying "we don't have anything really worth listening to at the moment, and we can't afford to make it because you wont give us your money". The public doesn't want to loan a greedy industry money, it wants to pay for a quality product, and one that it hasn't already payed for.
Have you not been listening?

Nobody's asking "for a loan". All we're asking is that you pay for the product you use. If you don't like it, don't pay for it. If you do like it, pay the asking price.

But don't take it and refuse to pay. That's stealing. Don't take it and claim you don't like it enough to pay for it. If you don't like it, why did you take it? That line of rhetoric is nothing more than a cowardly excuse to justify bad behavior.

How can I possibly express this in a clearer way?

Quote:
So perhaps it is time to abandon the "wild west period" of the music industry where formula reigns supreme and anyone can cash in, and go back to ground zero and win back the public with sustainable substance. The public is not taking the first step here, nor are they able, and they should not be expected to.
Whatever are you talking about? What you say makes no sense.

If "formula reigns supreme" how can "anybody cash in"? Don't you see the contradiction in that?

"Win back the public with sustainable substance"??? What is that supposed to mean? Win back what public? The public that is gluttonously consuming all the music they can get their hands on without paying for it? "Sustainable substance"? Where's that going to come from if nobody is paying for anything now?

You expect indies to step in an fill the gap? They can't - piracy hits them harder than it does the majors.







*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_Klein
Old 12th January 2011
  #200
Yeah, I've got to agree John.
A lot of that just didn't make any sense at all.
Old 12th January 2011
  #201
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
I'm confused what piracy has to do with the quality of music... or am I reading this wrong? Or are you saying piracy has something to do with the number of releases?
That's pretty obvious. And the reason you don't understand is that you won't drop your freetard colored glasses long enough to actually READ anything that Chris, myself, or what's his name say about the subject.

Piracy destroys the quality of music by destroying the investment base for the development of new artists and by forcing artists to support themselves with outside jobs instead of concentrating on their music.

Piracy also destroys the quality of music by eliminating the access of new artists to quality producers. An example would be The Beatles and George Martin. If Martin had not taught the Beatles the rudiments of songwriting, music theory, and arrangement, as well as opening their ears to musical forms outside the basic "rocker" style of rock and roll music they would never have progressed beyond doing covers of Chuck Berry and Little Richard and Sir Paul would be a retired hairdresser now.

But I don't expect you to understand any of this - after all you didn't understand it the first two dozen times it was explained to you, why should now be any different?
Old 12th January 2011
  #202
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeProducer View Post
can someone explain to me how there are sides which look like online shops where albums are offered for free and these sides are not immediately closed down?
I don't get it.
You mean "sites"?

To respond to your question - ask the friggin' federal government - it's THEIR job to enforce the law - and they're not doing it. Write your congressman and senators. Tell them we need ENFORCEMENT, not stupid new legislation that also won't be enforced, except in ways that have nothing to do with OUR problem.

The government showed a few feeble attempts to look liked they're doing something before last Christmas - tell the powers that be that that just isn't good enough.

They already have the laws they need - what they lack is the will to use them.
Old 12th January 2011
  #203
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
What does "dabbler" mean to you? I read it as someone who is not in the industry full time. Is that what you mean?

Gearlslutz is free, and I'm sure they make the bulk of the money to support the site by advertising. The more people who view their ads the better rates they can get from advertisers. So... more is better from their perspective, I'd think. I think that's why they haven't done anything to discourage "dabblers."

You might consider starting a pros only forum... I think you'd probably be quite successful at it, there probably is a great business model there. How about a pros only forum where "dabblers" can only get read only access? Might be a good moneymaking opportunity for someone there...



As someone who *might* be considered a "dabbler" to you, I don't think this describes how I or anyone else in my circle of "dabbler" friends looks at it.
There is nothing at all wrong with dabblers - except when they try to pass themselves off as knowledgeable people.

Those of us with professional experience LOVE to pass on our knowledge to those less fortunate - but to be bludgeoned by hostile jerks who don't have the foggiest idea what they're babbling about is not only annoying - it's insulting.
Old 12th January 2011
  #204
Lives for gear
 

Just to weigh in here - it is currently very difficult to enforce national and international internet and piracy law are on a global scale. There is no legal way for the USA or any other country/union of countries to take down an illegal web site that is not hosted on its territory.

Countries like Russia make no efforts at all to take down illegal web sites hosted on their territory. A solution would be to impose economical sanctions on countries who make no efforts to combat piracy, but I'm sure you'll understand that very few governments are willing to go that far.

Even if the US succeeds in shutting down all illegal activity on its territory, downloaders need only surf to another web site hosted on non-American soil.
Old 12th January 2011
  #205
Lives for gear
Sorry John, I get frustrated and irrational just like you or anyone else. My apologies.
Old 12th January 2011
  #206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Shadow View Post
Just to weigh in here - it is currently very difficult to enforce national and international internet and piracy law are on a global scale. There is no legal way for the USA or any other country/union of countries to take down an illegal web site that is not hosted on its territory.

Countries like Russia make no efforts at all to take down illegal web sites hosted on their territory. A solution would be to impose economical sanctions on countries who make no efforts to combat piracy, but I'm sure you'll understand that very few governments are willing to go that far.

Even if the US succeeds in shutting down all illegal activity on its territory, downloaders need only surf to another web site hosted on non-American soil.
not true - we've been through this... search posts by mobius media...
Old 12th January 2011
  #207
Gear Head
 

[QUOTE=John Eppstein;6209117]That's pretty obvious. And the reason you don't understand is that you won't drop your freetard colored glasses long enough to actually READ anything that Chris, myself, or what's his name say about the subject.
QUOTE]

His name is Deedeethumbsup ... Here is the problem John, the statement "explain to me again ----------" is the same as the statement I get when I ask my 2 and a half year old daughter why she did something she wasnt suppose to do; "I dont know".

Its not that they dont understand, just as it is that my daughter (and everyother immature human) knows exactly why she (or they) did something they knew was 'wrong'. The statements are used so they dont have to actually take accountability for the 'sins' against whatever/whoever was hurt.

The Earths population is chop full of people that do not think about anything that is beyond the flesh of their bones. THAT is the problem
Old 12th January 2011
  #208
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
..the reason you don't understand is that you won't drop your freetard colored glasses
Classic John moment... false categorization combined with an attempt to insult combined with an inane term all in one line. Beautiful.

I wasn't actually asking you, but thanks for answering.
Old 12th January 2011
  #209
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
There is nothing at all wrong with dabblers - except when they try to pass themselves off as knowledgeable people.
Got it. Dabblers = not knowledgeable. Thanks for that. Very helpful.

Quote:
Those of us with professional experience LOVE to pass on our knowledge to those less fortunate - but to be bludgeoned by hostile jerks who don't have the foggiest idea what they're babbling about is not only annoying - it's insulting.
Why would someone else's ignorance insult you John? That doesn't make sense. It is no insult to me when you are wrong.
Old 12th January 2011
  #210
Have you ever been to Rome?
If not, would you post repeatedly about what it's like to visit Rome? Do you then disagree with the posts of people who have traveled to Rome, often because they are describing their experiences of being in Rome, rather than posting specific data?

I have no problem with amateurs having their say. No problem at all.
Unfortunately, many wont post from the real world information base they have, or even from their amateur perspective.
I have a problem when amateurs, or simply those that haven't 'been there' base their platform on comments like - musicians are routinely treated unfairly by record labels, musicians could make more money selling t-shirts than selling CD's via a label, musicians need to play live to make up for lost record sales, less popular musicians weren't funded by major labels via the funds those labels created with mainstream pop acts.
To me it has the same value as someone who's never been to Rome telling me about the Piazza Novona.
Of course it's a free world, you can post about Rome as if you've been there. It's also OK for me to drop in with a reality check every now and again. Though I wish I didn't have to to be honest.
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