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So now that Piracy is unstoppable... Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 10th January 2011
  #151
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
By calling people thieves and seeing the whole issue in black and white, you are trying to force feed a monetary value you placed on music. It is sad that people don't value music anymore, but you have to help them to want to, not force them to.

I am a peculiar person.
no more than force feeding them the consequences of stealing anywhere else they go...the cash register is there for a purpose. if people can get something illegally free, and without consequence they will, no matter where they are or what it is. it's no more complicated than that.

and has been said before the issue is not limited to music, it extends to all content such as movies, video games, ebooks, software, etc.
Old 10th January 2011
  #152
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
no more than force feeding them the consequences of stealing anywhere else they go...the cash register is there for a purpose. if people can get something illegally free, and without consequence they will, no matter where they are or what it is. it's no more complicated than that.

and has been said before the issue is not limited to music, it extends to all content such as movies, video games, ebooks, software, etc.
It is more complicated than that, because people who download are not stealing from the place they obtain the item. Whoever is hosting the free downloads is giving the music away for free. It is those people who host and make the hosting possible that are actually "stealing" the music in that sense.

If someone goes into a store and steals a bunch of stuff, then gives it all out for free... some people that would never steal from a store might be willing to take what someone is giving away without asking any questions. Sure both parties may be wrong and ultimately responsible, but who is more damaging to the store?

As a store owner would it be more beneficial for you to go after all the people that accepted the items, or go after the people who stole it in the first place?

And lastly, is there a distinction between these two parties? Yes. One is guilty of stealing, the other is guilty of receiving stolen property (assuming they knew it was stolen). So if you must make criminals out of these people, at least accuse them of the right crime.
Old 10th January 2011
  #153
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
It is more complicated than that, because people who download are not stealing from the place they obtain the item. Whoever is hosting the free downloads is giving the music away for free. It is those people who host and make the hosting possible that are actually "stealing" the music in that sense.
it's not complicated at all, that's just rationalization, if there we're consequences for getting caught, the behavior would change. taking something that is not given is stealing.

please don't tell me that it's not stealing because the people downloading illegally believe The Pirate Bay has the rights legally to give it away. and people pirating are not being "gifted" the music, they are seeking it out, via google, torrents, p2p and other means... seeking it out... not being gifted to them...

this is a completely disingenuous argument, that is intellectually dishonest, and you know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
If someone goes into a store and steals a bunch of stuff, then gives it all out for free... some people that would never steal from a store might be willing to take what someone is giving away without asking any questions. Sure both parties may be wrong and ultimately responsible, but who is more damaging to the store?
in the case you are describing the people taking the goods probably not know they were stolen. in the case of piracy, they know it's stolen, and take pride in defending their right to steal. there's no ignorance here about what's going on.

While I do agree the uploading is the real problem again, this is a completely completely disingenuous argument, that is intellectually dishonest, and you know it. You really think the people downloading don't know it's illegal? You really think they don't know it's stealing.

Dude, it's stealing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
As a store owner would it be more beneficial for you to go after all the people that accepted the items, or go after the people who stole it in the first place?
We agree there - but again - do the people know the goods are stolen? Yes they do. Do you really think in 2011 there is a lack of awareness about Piracy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
And lastly, is there a distinction between these two parties? Yes. One is guilty of stealing, the other is guilty of receiving stolen property (assuming they knew it was stolen). So if you must make criminals out of these people, at least accuse them of the right crime.
C'mon dude - you know that's such BS it's not even funny. Receiving stolen goods is NOT trolling google, the pirate bay, bit torrent, etc, etc looking for current hits and the music they want, but to not pay for.... it's actively STEALING.

If you can't have an honest conversation about the issues I'm not sure what there is to say. People get what they have coming to them.

here's a refresher for clarity:
Old 10th January 2011
  #154
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
No one here is really trying to understand how I see it, I feel like I have a bunch of people standing at my door trying to convert me to seeing the light of god. That's fine, but, at least understand that I don't have to agree with you either.
I understand how you see it.
I've been selling myself for 30 years.
I think you're underselling yourself.
I also think you're deluded in two ways. 1) That people wont buy your music because they can't afford it. 2) That people will buy your music at some later date once they've sampled it for free. Trouble is, why buy it when you're giving it away?
Old 10th January 2011
  #155
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post

No one here is really trying to understand how I see it, I feel like I have a bunch of people standing at my door trying to convert me to seeing the light of god. That's fine, but, at least understand that I don't have to agree with you either.

-Danny
Actually, there are likely a lot of people here who see some things very similarly to how you see them, though we probably don't agree 100%. The point is, there are three people on these forums that vehemently disagree with you and will continue to argue about it with you. There are others who have been through the same thing with these three... and eventually it can seem a bit pointless.

BTW, I'm not trying to take a shot at them, it is what it is and I understand why they are so vehement, even if I don't agree with them.
Old 10th January 2011
  #156
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
Just to make this clear... I was never justifying "stealing" music, for anyone else and certainly not myself. Just trying to brainstorm for new perspectives and ideas of how to make the best of a bad situation.

You've done an awful lot of implying that I am a criminal or somehow endorse this type of criminal behavior, when I am essentially on the same side as you. I am just at a different place in my life and career than established professionals so I have a different viewpoint of how it is really effecting me and what I can do about it. This most likely has no relevance to you, or anyone else that pays all their bills from music and has been doing so for years. I don't have the option of jumping on the same ship as all of you guys because that ship already sailed. Everyone is waiting for a new ship, but no one knows when it is coming or what it will be like. I am sure there will be opportunities for artists that arise out of something totally new in the near future. People who are new to the industry have to start watching out for those types of things, or creating them. I apologize if it offends you that piracy is not my biggest concern and I don't want to burn offenders at the stake nor preach to them. I see bigger problems, such as major record labels being too willing to sell people the same formula over and over again. IMO, that is devaluing music more than people downloading for free.

No one here is really trying to understand how I see it, I feel like I have a bunch of people standing at my door trying to convert me to seeing the light of god. That's fine, but, at least understand that I don't have to agree with you either.

-Danny
Actually I DON'T pay my bills from music. I used to, before the money went away. If I hadn't received a small inheritance at just the right time I'd probably be out in the street or tending bar.

Quote:
I see bigger problems, such as major record labels being too willing to sell people the same formula over and over again. IMO, that is devaluing music more than people downloading for free.
What you fail to grasp is that the reason that the current output of the majors sucks now is because they don't have any money to invest in developing any artist that doesn't have a strong likelihood of an immediate payoff. So in fact the people downloading music for free are directly responsible for the decline in quality.

In the old days a label would sign 10 artists, figuring that out of 10 they'd get one or two winners and maybe one or two others that would develop over time to be something. There is no money to do that anymore. So the first ones to get dropped (or not signed in the first place) are the wild cards. Instead of signing 10 widely differing acts they sign Justin Beiber and The Black Eyed Peas.
Old 10th January 2011
  #157
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
Actually, there are likely a lot of people here who see some things very similarly to how you see them
How do we know as none of them post? You could be making that up.

Quote:
The point is, there are three people on these forums that vehemently disagree with you and will continue to argue about it with you. There are others who have been through the same thing with these three... and eventually it can seem a bit pointless.
Wow man.
Honestly I find your comment there quite disturbing.
I'm trying to help Danny.
Of course I'm not forcing him to do anything different with his music.
I'm trying to make him see his music has value, and he should see that people who take his music without paying are taking advantage of him, not supporting him.
I've had numerous people take advantage of me, and try to take advantage of me in my music career. I'm passing on those experiences to Danny.
What help are you giving him?
Old 11th January 2011
  #158
Lives for gear
Thanks guys. I know everyone is just trying to look out for everyone else, because everyone is dealing with the same BS whether we agree on certain issues or not. Chrisso I appreciate the concern and advice. John you've only touched the surface of what I fail to grasp. Purple, I appreciate the advice and links as well. Of the 5 new steps to counteract piracy I think ceasing of domain names is very logical. determinimum I see your point and this will be my last post here.

I am not disagreeing that the people downloading stuff illegally are wrong. I am not disagreeing that the labels can't take the monetary risk to develop bands like they used to anymore (though it is arguable whether this trend was in motion pre-piracy). I agree we need to place value on our stuff. I do place value on my music and art. The value I place on it is not 100% in monetary terms, so we will have to agree to disagree there.

I would recommend however, that the people pushing for piracy reform be a little more cautious about going so heavy with the calling people criminals thing. The impression that the record industry needs no fans, only customers does nothing positive for placing value back in music. So if anyone is truly interested in helping out future musicians as well as themselves/the current state, think about that.

I'm going back to reading about gear... screw the piracy forum.

-Danny
Old 11th January 2011
  #159
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Honestly I find your comment there quite disturbing.
Chris, I fail to see anything disturbing in what I posted. Maybe you can clarify?

Danny, please don't take my post as a reason to stop conversing... I was just pointing out that you are not the only one to have experienced it.

Quote:
I've had numerous people take advantage of me, and try to take advantage of me in my music career. I'm passing on those experiences to Danny.
What help are you giving him?
I'm merely telling him that, in spite of appearances, people who hang out in this forum aren't united with you three in their opinions. If you think it's OK for John to call him out as a pirate, and for him to be essentially shouted down by others, then you and I disagree on what constitutes debate. I'm saying, if you want to converse with people, then don't jump down their throats and pile on when someone is sincere. It doesn't help you change minds.
Old 11th January 2011
  #160
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
Chris, I fail to see anything disturbing in what I posted.
You used someone's comments about trying to make headway as a new, young professional to score a couple of cheap debating points in your ongoing battle against me. You made no attempt to help the person, or pass on any advice, you spent your entire post whining about 3 other forum members.
Both I and 'Fuzz' posted opinion and advice based on our experiences in the business. We both told Danny he should value his work more than he seemed to.

Quote:
If you think it's OK for John to call him out as a pirate, and for him to be essentially shouted down by others
I don't agree with John on this, nor did I call Danny a pirate, or even 'shout him down'.
You are a person who feels the need to lump forum members together in an un-natural way. I've never met John, or 'Fuzz' in my life. We broadly agree on the damage caused by illegal downloading..... that's about it.
Honestly, it's a measure of your presence on this forum that you describe professionals passing on sage advice, or at least trying to educate a less experienced professional as 'shouting them down'.
Old 11th January 2011
  #161
Lives for gear
 
nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You used someone's comments about trying to make headway as a new, young professional to score a couple of cheap debating points in your ongoing battle against me.
Dude, you are WAY Paranoid... seriously... that is some serious freakin' projection.

Do you really think I'm concerned about you in every post? Every post is about YOU specifically? Delusion much, Chris?

To prove the point, here's what I responded to (I even quoted it):

Quote:
No one here is really trying to understand how I see it, I feel like I have a bunch of people standing at my door trying to convert me to seeing the light of god.
So, really... that is serious paranoia.

Quote:
I don't agree with John on this, nor did I call Danny a pirate, or even 'shout him down'.
You have three guys tag teaming the guy, and you don't see how he *might* feel a little bit shouted down?
Old 11th January 2011
  #162
Quote:
Originally Posted by determinimum View Post
Dude, you are WAY Paranoid... seriously... that is some serious freakin' projection.
Delusion much, Chris?
So, really... that is serious paranoia.
You have three guys tag teaming the guy, and you don't see how he *might* feel a little bit shouted down?
Before you even posted, I explained to Danny how I understood his points, then passed on some thoughts based on my working experience.
You helped him how?
You contributed to the debate how?

You didn't spend your entire single post to Danny talking about 3 other forum members?
Old 11th January 2011
  #163
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitymusic View Post
I would recommend however, that the people pushing for piracy reform be a little more cautious about going so heavy with the calling people criminals thing.
it's not about names or labels, it's about behavior.

customers are people who purchase products

criminals are people who steal products without paying for it

each person gets to choose their own behavior and live with the consequences.

if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Old 11th January 2011
  #164
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purple vista View Post
if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
yup and the only thing a ducks gives back is &$*#
Old 11th January 2011
  #165
It's not about 'money', it's about allowing talented young musicians to have a possible career in music.
It's also about self respect.
Everyone, I mean everyone wants to take pride in their work.
Does a master baker give away their cakes?
Does a fireman save lives for free?

I'll answer your main question; where does that leave 'fans'?
Fans who enjoy your music should support you, and also respect your rights.
If you choose to share music for free with your fans, that's utterly and totally ok, and why not?
If you decide all your music output should be paid for, your fans should respect your decision and respect you, otherwise they aren't worthy fans IMO.
You saying it's all about 'money' and we are old and out of touch, is exactly the same as someone on here calling you a pirate.
I just respect myself.
I do plenty of free work, but I choose when I do it and who with.
I don't allow people who don't know me to take my work without paying, then claim they did it because they are fans of my work. That's quite crazy.
Old 11th January 2011
  #166
Gear Addict
 

Alright. People who make money or want to make money in the music biz are protecting their territory. Understandable.
There this outside force...people downloading music and movies for free.
Whether its good or bad is beside the point. Its a force of change. Maybe it'll stop, maybe it won't.

If the music and movie biz totally collapsed tomorrow because of it, so what. Some system will take its place. Its not the first time or the last that societal and economic paradigms have shifted leaving whole populations in the lurch, regardless of reasons being 'good' or 'bad'.

How all this all plays out is more interesting than the constant back and forth bickering of its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not...

Face it, music and movies are a cheap commodity. Everyone can entertain themselves making music banging on a garbage can lid and uploading the video onto youtube for the world to see. Everyone can be their own little music/movie studio. It has an effect on the brain in that no one looks at entertainment as something of special value anymore.
Old 11th January 2011
  #167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post

If the music and movie biz totally collapsed tomorrow because of it, so what. Some system will take its place.
So what for the innocent young musicians who'll be damaged.
They weren't around in the 70's and 80's when there were big bucks to be made, but they are being punished now.

Quote:
How all this all plays out is more interesting than the constant back and forth bickering of its illegal
Well first, it's illegal, that's just a fact of law.
But I find the people who don't care either way are those who aren't in the middle of it, also those who don't really care about the welfare of musicians in the 16-25 year old age group. the people who are our musical future.
Yeah, let's just destroy them. It'll be fun to see what happens.
Old 11th January 2011
  #168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Alright. People who make money or want to make money in the music biz are protecting their territory. Understandable.
There this outside force...people downloading music and movies for free.
Whether its good or bad is beside the point. Its a force of change. Maybe it'll stop, maybe it won't.

If the music and movie biz totally collapsed tomorrow because of it, so what. Some system will take its place. Its not the first time or the last that societal and economic paradigms have shifted leaving whole populations in the lurch, regardless of reasons being 'good' or 'bad'.

How all this all plays out is more interesting than the constant back and forth bickering of its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not, its illegal, no its not...
it is stealing.

it is wrong.

it is illegal.

the is no historical precedent for online piracy.

it won't always be easy and consequence free.

content industries will survive and prosper.

the disgruntled will still be bitter.

buckle up.

Old 11th January 2011
  #169
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
If the music and movie biz totally collapsed tomorrow because of it, so what.
So what? Do you know how many people on this site that record, make, produce etc etc music for their (and their families) living? That is about like saying- If you eat or dont eat tomorrow, SO WHAT.
Old 11th January 2011
  #170
There are too many dabblers on Gearslutz.
They seem to think dabbling is as good as it gets and anyone who does more than dabble is sooooo lucky they should shut up and let anyone and everyone take them for fools.
Old 11th January 2011
  #171
Gear Addict
 

Like your industry is the only one that has/is been changed and are the only people that have had their lives turned upside down or destroyed by it?

Everyone gets it. Everyone knows it. Its stealing, ok. And you can keep repeating the mantra over and over, but it means nothing because its being done nonetheless.
You're fighting for your livelihood, everyone gets that too. So what are you going to do when the overwhelming force of a huge number of people worldwide no longer believe in the value of what you're selling???
Old 11th January 2011
  #172
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Like your industry is the only one that has/is been changed and are the only people that have had their lives turned upside down or destroyed by it?

Everyone gets it. Everyone knows it. Its stealing, ok. And you can keep repeating the mantra over and over, but it means nothing because its being done nonetheless.
You're fighting for your livelihood, everyone gets that too. So what are you going to do when the overwhelming force of a huge number of people worldwide no longer believe in the value of what you're selling???
Yeah.. well to me it looks like someone is doing the big T service. I think Im going to leave this where it lie
Old 11th January 2011
  #173
No other industry has allowed it's product to be pilfered on a massively grand scale. Do you see that changing at all?

Secondly, it's not really about me, and me 'protecting' anything.
I care about music, and I care about innovative young musicians, if nothing else but because I live for exciting, fresh music.
So if you were to ask me what I cared about most - the livelihoods and survival of the next generation of musicians, or the anarchistic rabble just taking whatever they want....... I think I'll go with the young musicians. How about you?
Old 11th January 2011
  #174
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
No other industry has allowed it's product to be pilfered on a massively grand scale. Do you see that changing at all?

Secondly, it's not really about me, and me 'protecting' anything.
I care about music, and I care about innovative young musicians, if nothing else but because I live for exciting, fresh music.
So if you were to ask me what I cared about most - the livelihoods and survival of the next generation of musicians, or the anarchistic rabble just taking whatever they want....... I think I'll go with the young musicians. How about you?
I agree with what your saying 100%. That is the reason of me putting together a studio for these hard working young musicians to get their working demos without breaking the bank (of course they dont have money like most of us did for demos being the venues dont pay very well at all anymore). I see alot of kids that have no idea of how to play their instrument or sing, much less how to set their equipment..... BUT there are still young guys and gals that really know their stuff, these are the ones that need the chance.

Everyone says its the indie channels that are gold right now- problem is that the web based indie sales sites are over saturated with just crap, Id say 1 in every 5,000 albums that were 'released' last year was worth even getting 'released' via an open market medium. Piracy (IMO) has played a HUGE hand in this.
Old 11th January 2011
  #175
Couldn't agree more. thumbsup

Good luck with your studio. Sounds great.
Old 11th January 2011
  #176
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dualflip's Avatar
 

Ok let me tell you my opinion. The way things are going in the music business, and they way technollogy is advancing i have a long term projection (or maybe not so long term), nothing new, just exploited to its fullest:

Music will effectively stop being sold commercially (as in big record label selling you an album), artists will record themselves thanks to new technollogy, music will be spread over the internet at no cost or by means of donations (kinda like old underground punk rock band tapes shared hand by hand, word of mouth).

Artists with a bigger fan base or followers may hire an engineer to improve their sound, all earnings are based on donations (kinda like the "Radiohead" model but at its fullest, something like myspace with a paypal "donate" button) and merch sales, concerts, etc....

Music as a business will be over, however making a living from music will still be possible depending on the number of donations/fans, merch & concerts sales. Which could be a good thing since it would mean that music would have to likely improve... or music would have to be good enough to at least be able to attract a lot of people with out massive media exposure.

Advice: If you are like me, and you are making a living out of music, enjoy it while you can because chances are these are the lasts days of the music business as we know it...
Old 11th January 2011
  #177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lester View Post
Like your industry is the only one that has/is been changed and are the only people that have had their lives turned upside down or destroyed by it?

Everyone gets it. Everyone knows it. Its stealing, ok. And you can keep repeating the mantra over and over, but it means nothing because its being done nonetheless.

You're fighting for your livelihood, everyone gets that too. So what are you going to do when the overwhelming force of a huge number of peopl worldwide no longer believe in the value of what you're selling???
I have a feeling when there are consequences for their actions their behavior will change. The wild west wasn't wild forever, and I would not expect the internet to be either.

Transitional times are always difficult, and this is unprecedented in many ways, but history shows us that lawlessness and chaos are not the design choice of civilized societies.

This isn't just about music, it's about all content - movies, tv, videogames, ebooks, software - if you really think there will be continued investment in products that can be stolen without consequence, you are kidding yourself.

5 New Anti-Piracy Strategies

Commerce Dept to assign Internet ID for all Americans!

YouTube now liable for all content in Italy

Google finally decides to do more about piracy

Feds seize more piracy/counterfeiting domains

RapidShare Fined Over Copyrights
Old 11th January 2011
  #178
Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip View Post
Ok let me tell you my opinion. The way things are going in the music business, and they way technollogy is advancing i have a long term projection (or maybe not so long term), nothing new, just exploited to its fullest:

Music will effectively stop being sold commercially (as in big record label selling you an album), artists will record themselves thanks to new technollogy, music will be spread over the internet at no cost or by means of donations (kinda like old underground punk rock band tapes shared hand by hand, word of mouth).

Artists with a bigger fan base or followers may hire an engineer to improve their sound, all earnings are based on donations (kinda like the "Radiohead" model but at its fullest, something like myspace with a paypal "donate" button) and merch sales, concerts, etc....

Music as a business will be over, however making a living from music will still be possible depending on the number of donations/fans, merch & concerts sales. Which could be a good thing since it would mean that music would have to likely improve... or music would have to be good enough to at least be able to attract a lot of people with out massive media exposure.

Advice: If you are like me, and you are making a living out of music, enjoy it while you can because chances are these are the lasts days of the music business as we know it...
there is, and there is going to continue to be an abundance of distribution for content. right now a lot of the content distribution is illegal, which is very disruptive to the legitimate businesses.

but eventually, distributors are going to need exclusive, legal, quality professional content, that will bring an audience so that it can be monetized.

all content is about monetizing an audience. right now, online, a really big share (if not the biggest) is being monetized illegally.

we're going to see some interesting deals in the next year. when google tv has to pay for premium content to launch it's service, you can bet they'll have a stronger interest in protecting it.

there will be new premium gate keepers who will not want the content that they pay to develop stolen, which will restore order, but will also restore top line gate keepers.
Old 11th January 2011
  #179
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You saying it's all about 'money' and we are old and out of touch, is exactly the same as someone on here calling you a pirate.
Chris I agree and I am sorry, that post was a little overboard and out of line and I don't want to insult anyone, that is just the impression I get when any argument is rebutted with the same reasoning. It sounds rehearsed. I think we can agree that value+respect=good, theft+entitlement=bad.

In fact, I think the whole industry could agree there. That is not the issue, the issue is the reason why people don't value the music enough not to feel entitled to steal it. I don't buy into the whole "there are no honest people left" argument, or "if people can steal for free without consequences they will" as generalized statements. Sure those people are out there, and maybe the position you guys are in career-wise leaves you more exposed to these types of people than the average person. But it is a cynical outlook on life to assume this is true for everyone, or even a majority.

Pretty much everyone I know is an avid music fan that still buys music either on cd or vinyl. Maybe I am equally biased because I am most exposed to the opposite extreme. I also take into account the perspectives these people have on the record industry as a whole and the popular music they push. That perspective? They are crooks that just want your money, and are willing to sell you the same **** over and over if they have reason to believe you will buy it. I know this is not true of the industry as a whole, but it is getting harder and harder to defend.

Now if it is too much for major labels to develop artists because there is too much risk, maybe we should abandon the major label system because it only serves as a distraction for those looking to find unique and sincere music to appreciate. The public is saying "give us a new Beatles, or Zeppelin, or Floyd, or just anything interesting". How many times have you heard that Nickleback song since Pearl Jam wrote it? For me, too many because I didn't like it that much in the first place. I am fed up as well, I want to hear a new song and go "that is a cool chord!" or "that's an interesting progression". That happens rarely these days. At best it's: "it's catchy...". No substance.

If the industry placed more emphasis on music rather than marketing, people would see that instantly and opinions would change. But saying "majors can't develop artists because of piracy" is essentially saying "we don't have anything really worth listening to at the moment, and we can't afford to make it because you wont give us your money". The public doesn't want to loan a greedy industry money, it wants to pay for a quality product, and one that it hasn't already payed for.

So perhaps it is time to abandon the "wild west period" of the music industry where formula reigns supreme and anyone can cash in, and go back to ground zero and win back the public with sustainable substance. The public is not taking the first step here, nor are they able, and they should not be expected to.

None of this is new thought, underground scenes have been using this motto for decades, and perhaps this is why they are not as concerned with piracy as the mainstream. I'm an indie kinda guy, I grew up listening to punk rock and trading tapes with friends, which is what exposed me to a large portion of the music that I currently own, and is also what instilled the passion of music in me. As long as we didn't sell these tapes, the bands were always supportive of this, because it is what helped build up those scenes which are more sustainable than the mainstream obviously.
Old 11th January 2011
  #180
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero1dtd View Post
Id say 1 in every 5,000 albums that were 'released' last year was worth even getting 'released' via an open market medium. Piracy (IMO) has played a HUGE hand in this.
I'm confused what piracy has to do with the quality of music... or am I reading this wrong? Or are you saying piracy has something to do with the number of releases?
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