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1.2 billion illegal music downloads in 2010 a record Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 26th December 2010
  #181
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
I knew I wouldn't be the one being unreasonable, again...
It's not reasonable to weight two opinions equally without regard to scholarship. There's a term for that.. but nevermind.

Also... if you want to ask Terry why he didn't consider the industry sponsored data in his conclusion... I think I know, but I'd be curious what he would say. Of course to begin with... there's no data that actually addresses the question, but even besides that.
Old 26th December 2010
  #182
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
It's not reasonable to weight two opinions equally without regard to scholarship. There's a term for that.. but nevermind.

Also... if you want to ask Terry why he didn't consider the industry sponsored data in his conclusion... I think I know, but I'd be curious what he would say. Of course to begin with... there's no data that actually addresses the question, but even besides that.
it's unfortunate your desire to be "right" disables your ability to be objective or reasonable, and in the end you are actually neither, just obtuse.
Old 26th December 2010
  #183
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
It's pretty clear to me he just was pulling all the relevant studies he could find.
Exactly what I said..... and correct.


Quote:
It's more powerful because it is at least attempting to use scientific methodology to answer the question rather than relying on the ant's eye view. When trying to understand why someone is sick, you would probably rely on a doctor over the opinion of a patient.
Hmm, you're persisting with this 'ant' analogy. tutt

When asking someone why The Giants keep throwing away games do you 1) ask the fan, or 2) ask the coach/senior players?
When assessing the challenges facing the dairy industry for the next five years do you 1) ask milk drinkers, or 2) ask dairy farmers?

The doctor wouldn't tell you anything about your ailment without first carefully collecting as much information from the patient as possible.
It's the patient who provides all the symptoms, and feedback....... something you are clearly and repeatedly unwilling to accept from the musicians and music industry people on this forum. We're giving you all the symptoms we're feeling, but if you were the doctor you'd be ignoring many of those symptoms and imposing a conclusion of your own based on your 'hunch', or some study you'd read about on the internet. Actually some real doctors do that and are soon struck off the medical registry.
You don't believe the symptoms the industry is reporting, because you have a hunch the causes are equally or more recession, and rival entertainments etc.....
You think $1 should be a sweet spot for song sales, but you have no evidence or data to support that. You're everyone's medical nightmare.
Old 27th December 2010
  #184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
Also the labels are desperate to break Itunes virtual monopoly... and shooting themselves in the foot - we agree on that.
Please see my thread on Bittorrent based legal distribution.
Old 27th December 2010
  #185
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Ask him. It's pretty clear to me he just was pulling all the relevant studies he could find.



It's more powerful because it is at least attempting to use scientific methodology to answer the question rather than relying on the ant's eye view. When trying to understand why someone is sick, you would probably rely on a doctor over the opinion of a patient.
No. It is not.

Scientific methodology is sitting down and devising the most impartial protocol for measurement of the phenomenon that you can, conducting the testing yourself with your own team using a sufficiently large sample population, correlating the data yourself, and publishing the results. That's what scientists do.

Gathering up a bunch of other people's questionably accurate work is pedantic methodology, not scientific.

Quote:
It's more powerful becauseit is at least attempting to use scientific methodology to answer the question rather than relying on the ant's eye view.
In this case it's more like the eagle's eye view. I'd suggest a course in comparative zoology.......... <grin>

Quote:
When trying to understand why someone is sick, you would probably rely on a doctor over the opinion of a patient
After what I've been through with doctors over the last 5 years I'm not so sure. So far they're batting around 30%. After more than 2 years my left hand is not quite back to normal following the bungling of treatment of an injury I suffered from a fall on a bus, thanks to the doctors not listening to the patient. In fact it probably never would have healed if I hadn't taken the advice of an ex-sports coach instead of listening to the damn idiot doctors.

But that's neither here nor there.

What's more relevant here is that there is no equivalent of a medical specialist anywhere in this equation. What we have is closer to a new age "holistic" healer vs. a native shaman with a working knowledge of natural medicine.
Old 27th December 2010
  #186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neenja View Post
I am a big fan of having Trent disappeared.dfegad
Naw. Nothin' wrong with Trent that couldn't be solved with a lemon of appropriate size and a couple rolls of gaffer tape.
Old 27th December 2010
  #187
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRA View Post
That said I've been buying a bunch of vinyl records lately, and I like that some come with a free digital download of that album. THAT should really be the "new" music format.
I finished a project last year for a band that decided to go this route. A number of bands in their area are doing the same thing.

I have noticed that many of my moviegoing friends will pay at the box office and then download an .avi of the films they've seen when they become available on torrent sites. Their logic seems to be that since tickets/popcorn/drinks are so expensive that the download is an acceptable way to defray their costs. (not saying they're right-just noticing a trend)
Old 27th December 2010
  #188
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post

The doctor wouldn't tell you anything about your ailment without first carefully collecting as much information from the patient as possible.
Look, again, there's nothing left to be said... you think the anecdotal opinions of you and a bunch of your musician friends are more accurate than evidence culled through scientific methodology. Fine, be happy. I think you're crazy, there are a million reasons why you are too close to the issue to be objective, and already have your mind made up.. but if you're happy then just be happy. To me... you cannot use what you call "evidence" to counter a bunch of academic studies that come up with similar numbers independently.

Quote:
You think $1 should be a sweet spot for song sales, but you have no evidence or data to support that. You're everyone's medical nightmare.
You are absolutely right, I "think." Never said anything else. Do you understand the difference?
Old 27th December 2010
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
it's unfortunate your desire to be "right" disables your ability to be objective or reasonable
You really think the "reasonable" thing to do is split things down the middle when there is a disagreement in number? You REALLY think we should ignore the accuracy of the data? Reallyyy?

King Solomon, eh? Pretty funny. heh
Old 27th December 2010
  #190
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
On the thread topic, one question I have not seen a good answer to is:
If illegal downloading were reduced to a low level, by how much would legal downloads increase? If, for example, someone had come up with a method to prevent the estimated 1.2 billion downloads stated in the thread title, how many legal downloads would there have been instead? (I suspect I'm going to get a wildly inaccurate figure from one side, and untrue accustations about my agenda from the other.)
That's a rehtorical question.. BUT,
IMO, (tho they would most certainly go up!) I wouldn't care if the number stayed the same. It's the principle of the thing that gaffs my goat.
It's a feeling of getting spit on as you walk down the sidewalk, by 9/10 people passing by, then when you get home.. you furniture is all gone, the neighbor is screwing your wife, and your dog ran off with the cat! Then, still covered in wife's stank and sweat, your neighbor comes over to borrow your lawnmower, eats the contents of the cubboard, drinks the milk out of the carton, pisses on the rug, and uses the tablecloth to blow his nose.
He then asks "when's your daughter get home? I've got something to show her..."

As a buisness, it's important not to get too emotionally attached to the art.. but there's no denying that a large part of the soul, sweat, tears, hopes & dreams go into the creation. I'd rather people not like it, than rip it outta my hands without at least asking...
Old 27th December 2010
  #191
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Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 

It's about being able to afford to practice the art.
Old 27th December 2010
  #192
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
You really think the "reasonable" thing to do is split things down the middle when there is a disagreement in number? You REALLY think we should ignore the accuracy of the data? Reallyyy?

King Solomon, eh? Pretty funny. heh
you're funny, look in the mirror as you seem to be ignoring the accuracy of the data you don't agree with... choosing selective accuracy is nothing more than reinforcing your own bias, if the reports are inconclusive they are inconclusive both ways...
Old 27th December 2010
  #193
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
you're funny, look in the mirror as you seem to be ignoring the accuracy of the data you don't agree with
Again, if you want to ask Terry why he didn't include any additional reports, you might want to ask him. Again, none of the links you have provided attempt to answer the question. Again, I'm very open to more data, and if you have anything that is created with good scholarship, I'd love to see it.

You, John, and Chris want to make this about me, but you can't change the fact that the data is going against what you are saying... your belief system. Again, I don't feel that it is conclusive, but, again, certainly the data is leaning strongly toward piracy's impact being well below 50% of the downturn. All your words, emotional arguments, etc can't change that.
Old 27th December 2010
  #194
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Again, if you want to ask Terry why he didn't include any additional reports, you might want to ask him. Again, none of the links you have provided attempt to answer the question. Again, I'm very open to more data, and if you have anything that is created with good scholarship, I'd love to see it.

You, John, and Chris want to make this about me, but you can't change the fact that the data is going against what you are saying... your belief system. Again, I don't feel that it is conclusive, but, again, certainly the data is leaning strongly toward piracy's impact being well below 50% of the downturn. All your words, emotional arguments, etc can't change that.
no emotion, just facts - which you are painfully short on. if you have actual facts, hard numbers, hard data, conclusive proof and not just more dated, biased studies, bring um'...

it's not about you or terry, it's about a lack of conclusive data - you have a lack of conclusive data and claim the same to anything that is contrary to your beliefs, you should look in the mirror before posting more nonsense.

your ongoing double standard and double speak is amusing, but tiring.
Old 27th December 2010
  #195
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Look, again, there's nothing left to be said... you think the anecdotal opinions of you and a bunch of your musician friends are more accurate than evidence culled through scientific methodology.
Hmm, like I've said about ten times now. Look at the scientific methodology. You say it like it's a worldwide study with vast resources and a wide body sitting on the peer review board.
No, its a few economics post graduates studying a couple of thousand students from the same university. Not super scientific IMHO.


Quote:
You are absolutely right, I "think." Never said anything else. Do you understand the difference?
No, you argued the point with several forum members who have long experience in the industry (not me). You seem to think your inexperienced, sitting on the sidelines thinking trumps those who actually sell commercial music and have to research their pricing.
Old 27th December 2010
  #196
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Again, if you want to ask Terry why he didn't include any additional reports, you might want to ask him.
You, John, and Chris want to make this about me, but you can't change the fact that the data is going against what you are saying... your belief system.
Psalad, you forget we are talking about our professional careers. You're putting up someone's online blog as if it's the bible on piracy.
I can't place huge import on Terry's blog to be honest. It's a blog, no authority there.
All power to the guy for putting in the effort, adding to the debate.
If you think it's going to rock my world, you are amazingly mistaken.
As I keep pointing out (seemingly to the blind), he collated old studies, by entities that hold little authority in the music scene.
So you think it's highly significant. I'd say that's because you aren't on the ground, but living this issue virtually online.
Old 27th December 2010
  #197
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
there are a million reasons why you are too close to the issue to be objective, and already have your mind made up.
Funny.
You already have your mind made up and you're a million miles away from the issue to even see it, let alone objectively.
Old 27th December 2010
  #198
Gear Maniac
 

Here is the bottom line. The internet, especially in the US, is not regulated because of the laws of the land let these sites stay working. People do not want the government regulating the internet so piracy is going to continue. This what happens when technology goes so out of control that it cannot be contained.
Old 27th December 2010
  #199
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Funny.
You already have your mind made up and you're a million miles away from the issue to even see it, let alone objectively.
Again, this is not about me. Look at the research Terry pulled together. Again, you already agree he pulled the best data he could find and made a conclusion based upon that data. That is perfectly reasonable, until better data comes along... then you revisit your conclusion if the data warrants it.
Old 27th December 2010
  #200
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Psalad, you forget we are talking about our professional careers. You're putting up someone's online blog as if it's the bible on piracy.
I can't place huge import on Terry's blog to be honest. It's a blog, no authority there.
Fair enough, then I have to wonder why it's not simple to refute his conclusions. I'd like to hear, specifically, what he missed, tell me what the problems are with the data, which reports he should have considered that didn't.

I'm not saying you are purposely doing this, but this is a common tactic of people who want to criticize something. They call it "bad science" without actually being specific as to what is wrong with the science. I find it disingenuous. If terry's blog is incorrect or misleading, please provide specific reasons why. I don't think he is an authority at all. I've looked around the best I could for similar data and didn't find anything else. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist of course, but I have no reason to doubt his sincerity or his completeness until I see reasons to. You haven't provided them.

Quote:
All power to the guy for putting in the effort, adding to the debate.
If you think it's going to rock my world, you are amazingly mistaken.
As I keep pointing out (seemingly to the blind), he collated old studies, by entities that hold little authority in the music scene.
If there are newer ones Chris, I'm all ears. I have a feeling Terry would like to see them too. BTW, as I've pointed out in the past, it takes a while for the evidence to be combed through and organized into a report, so there will always be a lag... there always is.

Quote:
So you think it's highly significant. I'd say that's because you aren't on the ground, but living this issue virtually online.
I'm not saying it's significant or insignificant. I'm saying, it is what we have now. Again... bring forth any additional studies on the topic, I would love to read them. Again... I suspect the problem is worse then the current data shows, and I suspect further data will show that. But, that's just a guess, and I'd like to see the data as it comes out. In the meantime... it is what it is.
Old 27th December 2010
  #201
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Funny.
You already have your mind made up and you're a million miles away from the issue to even see it, let alone objectively.
Again... agree to disagree Chris. I think you're wrong about the impact, but you might be right too. When data comes through that shows you are correct, I'll be right there with you.
Old 27th December 2010
  #202
OK, you're sidestepping a lot of what I'm saying.
I'll try and make it crystal clear for you.....

1) I line by line went through terry's study blog. I ain't doing it again.
I went through it a couple of months ago and wrote a super lengthy post detailing my thoughts.
You missed it or ignored it. Yes, I criticised it, but I actually looked at all the studies and my criticisms were specific.
The short conclusion is what I've written repeatedly in this thread.
Small studies, hopelessly out of date.
A short version on Terry's conclusion versus the way I feel? They both have their place.
I'm not saying the studies are completely worthless in a wide-ranging debate. If they are used to diminish or discount real people's real experiences, then yes, they are a waste of space, because they were limited in scope and are now very out of date. They told us something about the past, but they're not telling us very much now.
2) The first Apple iPhone was introduced in 2007. That's a year after the most recent study you're choosing to place importance on.
Among other things, the iPhone has additionally revolutionized the digital music scene. It also highlights the rapid pace of technological development, versus 4, 5, 6 year old research.

3) I keep telling you there is no data on a worldwide level, nor is there ever likely to be, because musicians just get on with it, whatever tough crap gets thrown at them. They also drop out of the industry and no one collects their data or statistics. They just drift away from making music and open a bakery, or drive a taxi or something.
My problem with you is your strong conviction, however the lack of true insight that holds up that conviction.
There mere fact you've stuck doggedly to 5 or 6 out of date studies highlighted on an (honestly in the big scheme of things) insignificant blog, says a lot.

4) If you google 'EZdrummer', the first two hits are the makers own pages (Toontrack), the third hit is a Wiki page, and the fourth hit is the first of many free download sites.
That tells me more about my business challenge than any economics post graduate (27 years old) could, who's studied downloading patterns within a couple of hundred students at his college.
Old 27th December 2010
  #203
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Again... agree to disagree Chris. I think you're wrong about the impact, but you might be right too. When data comes through that shows you are correct, I'll be right there with you.
I haven't put a percentage on the impact.
But if you disagree with me anyway, remember you're disagreeing based on information you got from the internet, not from anything you experienced personally, or from any information you collected from hundreds of people experiencing the issue.
So, on what basis are you discrediting my views?
Because you've read some research on the net...... and you think I'm 'an ant'?
tutt
Old 27th December 2010
  #204
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxpower View Post
I finished a project last year for a band that decided to go this route. A number of bands in their area are doing the same thing.

I have noticed that many of my moviegoing friends will pay at the box office and then download an .avi of the films they've seen when they become available on torrent sites. Their logic seems to be that since tickets/popcorn/drinks are so expensive that the download is an acceptable way to defray their costs. (not saying they're right-just noticing a trend)
Movies and music are not the same thing and different dynamics apply.
Old 27th December 2010
  #205
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Look, again, there's nothing left to be said... you think the anecdotal opinions of you and a bunch of your musician friends are more accurate than evidence culled through scientific methodology.nk." Never said anything else. Do you understand the difference?
There is a LOT to be said, except that you deliberately ignore it.

Specifically, as I've explained several times (which you are apparently unasble to either read or comprehend), you8 so-called "scientific methodology" is about a scientific a a faith healer's chant.

Dig it, sonny - I happen to have a couple of actual, real research scientists in my family and as a university brat grew up among a large number of others. Your alleged "scientific evidence" would not pass even the most rudimentary muster, and would be laughed out of any serious research effort. You simply (and I mean no disrespect) do not know what the bloody hell you are talking about.
Old 27th December 2010
  #206
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
You really think the "reasonable" thing to do is split things down the middle when there is a disagreement in number? You REALLY think we should ignore the accuracy of the data? Reallyyy?

King Solomon, eh? Pretty funny. heh
What are you babbling about?

"Accuracy of the data"?

What "data"?

Where?

You're talking about some anecdotal "surveys" of small samples of college students who are (as I previously pointed out) highly motivated to lie.

You have no "data".

Your "surveys" are about as valid as GWB's excuses for invading Iraq.

Whenever anybody offers any REASONABLE suggestions about the situation of any REAL data you dismiss it out of hand.

You are a piracy apologist, regardless of your attempts to disguise your position.

If you don't understand that I genuinely feel sorry for you because you have been sadly duped. But actually I think you understand EXACTLY what position you are defending. Otherwise you would not reject any attempt to bring the discussion to a reasonable middle ground.
Old 27th December 2010
  #207
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Movies and music are not the same thing and different dynamics apply.
Right. Sorry to interrupt.
Old 27th December 2010
  #208
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post

1) I line by line went through terry's study blog. I ain't doing it again.
I went through it a couple of months ago and wrote a super lengthy post detailing my thoughts.
I recall, but you need to go line by line through the data, not to blog. Your critiques were not specific to my recollection.

Quote:
A short version on Terry's conclusion versus the way I feel? They both have their place.
Totally agree... I don't think your experience speaks to the number in question, but it certainly speaks to other parts of the issues. They "why" for example.

Quote:
If they are used to diminish or discount real people's real experiences, then yes, they are a waste of space, because they were limited in scope and are now very out of date. They told us something about the past, but they're not telling us very much now.
One issue you have is you confuse disagreement with what you call "diminishing" your experience. I have never "diminished" or dismisses your experiences. I disagree with your conclusions, that's all. I really wish you could figure out the difference.

Quote:
2) The first Apple iPhone was introduced in 2007. That's a year after the most recent study you're choosing to place importance on.
Maybe I should do a cut and paste over and over like someone else we know.

I've already answered this, but the bottom line is if there are more recent studies I'd love to learn from them.

Quote:
3) I keep telling you there is no data on a worldwide level, nor is there ever likely to be, because musicians just get on with it, whatever tough crap gets thrown at them.
Musicians aren't the ones compiling the data, so that's not really relevant. Again... the data you have is the data you have.

Quote:
My problem with you is your strong conviction, however the lack of true insight that holds up that conviction.
My "conviction" started with an opinion. I looked at the data, and the data actually reinforced my position. If the data showed something else, I would change my perspective.

Quote:
4) If you google 'EZdrummer', the first two hits are the makers own pages (Toontrack), the third hit is a Wiki page, and the fourth hit is the first of many free download sites.
I thought we were talking about the music industry not the music software industry?

Besides... we are trying to prove the impact of piracy, this piece of information doesn't help. Google uses their own formula to determine results placement based on, if I understand it, links to pages, hits on pages, etc. The results show that lots of people ARE searching for illegal downloads for your product, but this doesn't help quantify the damage they are doing.

BTW.. it sucks that illegal downloads for your software are so easy to find, and I'm sure that has an impact.

Part of the problem with all this is your belief that the data is comprised of studying students. I'd look at the data yourself and check in to that assumption if I were you. Even if it did comprise ONLY students, didn't we already establish that students were some of the worst offenders with illegal file sharing?
Old 27th December 2010
  #209
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
didn't we already establish that students were some of the worst offenders with illegal file sharing?
yes - and no wonder the studies are inconclusive when the inmates are running the asylum (or, er um, survey)...

the only way to have any "scientific" accuracy is to have ISPs report the amount of data traffic by category (Email, YouTube, NetFlix, Torrents, Rapidshare, MegaUpload, Porn, Skype, Etc) which no doubt they have and could provide - there is a very good reason why that information is not available (or at least I'm not finding them reporting it - monthly, weekly, annually, etc).

If computers can do one thing exceeding well - it's track data. Isn't funny that this data is not tracked and reported?

It would look pretty bad if the majority of their money came at the expense of the content industries due to the high traffic in illegal downloads of pirated content (Music, Movies, Videogames, Software, Books, Etc).

what do you think people are doing with all that P2P traffic, sharing pictures of Grandma's Birthday?
Nocturnal P2P transmissions account for 95 percent of Internet traffic

Quote:
in places like Eastern Europe, P2P apps can account for an astonishing 95 percent of all nighttime traffic.


more here:
Who's Really Destroying Music? Take a Closer Look...

and here:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...c32B0Q&cad=rja
Old 27th December 2010
  #210
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
I recall, but you need to go line by line through the data, not to blog. Your critiques were not specific to my recollection.
They were study specific and had zero, zip to do with Terry or his blog, they were about the individual studies.

Quote:
One issue you have is you confuse disagreement with what you call "diminishing" your experience. I have never "diminished" or dismisses your experiences. I disagree with your conclusions, that's all. I really wish you could figure out the difference.
I'm talking about the way you argue to the Nth degree with people here who are in the industry. When people told you your attitude to corruption in the label system was highly exaggerated, you begged to differ. You think it's a disagreement, but as they all had long experience with a variety of labels and you hadn't, you had to claim they were biased (dismissing their experiences).


Quote:
I've already answered this, but the bottom line is if there are more recent studies I'd love to learn from them.
No, I think the bottom line question is why are you clinging to studies that are hopelessly out of date (never mind narrow in their scope)?
I guess it's because:

Quote:
My "conviction" started with an opinion. I looked at the data, and the data actually reinforced my position.
Case closed. No matter that the 'data' is limited and 4 to 5 years old in a business scene that changes beyond recognition every calender year.

Quote:
I thought we were talking about the music industry not the music software industry?
I thought we were talking about the ability for those in the industry to see the big picture with regards to 1) piracy and 2) the impact on their own business.


Quote:
this piece of information doesn't help. Google uses their own formula to determine results placement based on, if I understand it, links to pages, hits on pages, etc. The results show that lots of people ARE searching for illegal downloads for your product, but this doesn't help quantify the damage they are doing.
You see this is exactly where you dismiss/diminish more than you disagree.
You claim I'm one of the ants, I can't see what's really happening.
I pointed out that people generally only survive this tough business if they have a handle on their business model, and have an understanding and strategy to overcome any barriers in their way.

You'd like to say if I looked at the studies I'd see I might at worst be losing 20% of my sales.
However, informing myself as any good businessman would, I search 'EZdrummer' on Google (NOT 'EZdrummer free', or 'EZdrummer Download' etc), and I find Google lists as the number four hit, a site where you can download part of my income stream illegally.

Rather than accept I am informing myself, and the results I'm seeing are rather shocking...... you're on a mission to diminish my point by prattling on about Google's methods of operation.

In short, I'm actually running a business and informing myself with information that is hours old, like how easy is it to find my work illegally with a simple Google search on Christmas Day.
You're 'disagreeing' with me, while not running a music business and using as your platform a handful of studies that are 5 years old.
Way to go.
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