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1.2 billion illegal music downloads in 2010 a record Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 30th December 2010
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Why the focus on me having any 'new data',
The focus is on the data we have. If it's not quite conclusive, it's much more conclusive then no data. You are asking me to, what, just trust me because you KNOW, you are an expert? That trumps data to you (I get it, as my personal experience would potentially trump data too), but Chris, I've seen the way you think and how you jump to conclusions with very little data, and I say no thanks, I'll stick with the data.
Old 30th December 2010
  #272
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
The focus is on the data we have. If it's not quite conclusive, it's much more conclusive then no data. You are asking me to, what, just trust me because you KNOW, you are an expert?
First and foremost I would hope common sense prevailed and you would dump this data because it is worse than useless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
but Chris, I've seen the way you think and how you jump to conclusions with very little data, and I say no thanks, I'll stick with the data.
Yeah, the thing is, I have work that is pirated. I'm a long time professional in the industry, widely traveled and my name is on this forum so everyone can know who i am and what I stand for.
You are none of the above, and yet you are once again happy to slur me with your accusations..... "I've seen the way you think and how you jump to conclusions with very little data".
tutt
Give me a break.
Old 30th December 2010
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I'm a long time professional in the industry, widely traveled and my name is on this forum so everyone can know who i am and what I stand for.
You are none of the above, and yet you are once again happy to slur me with your accusations..... "I've seen the way you think and how you jump to conclusions with very little data".
PERFECT example Chris!!! PERFECT.

You are a "long time professional" who had work pirated... yet I have no right to "slur" you by saying IMHO you jump to conclusions without having enough data?

REEEEAAAALY??

This is exactly the kind of disconnected logic I'm taking about. It doesn't take David Geffen to look at what you write and how you jump to conclusions and make a decision on your trustworthiness.

Honestly Chris this is exactly the kind of disconnect I'm talking about.
Old 30th December 2010
  #274
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
PERFECT example Chris!!! PERFECT.

You are a "long time professional" who had work pirated... yet I have no right to "slur" you by saying IMHO you jump to conclusions without having enough data?

REEEEAAAALY??
Well, you'd have a right to contradict me if you had anything concrete of your own. You don't, it's internet say-so, data from 2001, and stuff you got from 'friends' while working at un-named radio stations.
This is the kind of disconnect I'm talking about.
I'm happy to be told I've jumped to the wrong conclusion by someone who actually knows.

And again, you are publicly calling into question my 'trustworthiness'????
All I'm saying is i'm actually professional in the business, and I actually have work taken without payment.
You are what...... in your home office, passing the time of day outside your regular day job? And yet "in your opinion" I jump to the wrong conclusions.
Based on what real evidence?
Old 30th December 2010
  #275
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
There's no real need to "call me out" as several people on this board know who I am, I've even offered to do some free work for them (so far no takers). I've responded by PM.
As you have to me.

I do have a penchant for dramatic hyperbole at times.

Actually I'm not at a certain that we'd get anything more accomplished in a face to face meeting but it's nice to have a feel for the person you're talking to in a way that can't easily be done online.

For example you'd then know that the line "Hey psalad I'm callin' you out!" is being delivered in my thickest Okie drawl...... and just a wee bit tongue in cheek.........
Old 30th December 2010
  #276
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well, you'd have a right to contradict me if you had anything concrete of your own.
Actually I have the right to contradict you. Period. In my country, I'm allowed.

Quote:
And again, you are publicly calling into question my 'trustworthiness'????
All I'm saying is i'm actually professional in the business, and I actually have work taken without payment.
Yet, you do it again. Your trustworthiness is about how you interpret data, as seen right here. You have shown to me, IN MY OPINION, that you often conclude without having data to back it up. It has NOTHING to do with your industry experience. I'm only talking about how you respond to data.

Quote:
And yet "in your opinion" I jump to the wrong conclusions.
Based on what real evidence?
heh

OPINION Chris.
Old 30th December 2010
  #277
TLR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowaterMusic View Post
I bet there's a corresponding dip in legal music downloads. They couldn't possibly have also gone up in 2010, could they?
Both could easily go up as the technology is embraced by more people, the music industry is not a zero sum. People's appetites for more music and choice are increasing, and arguably they often download music they would never consciously consider buying. Partly the problem is fueled by the designers of the audio players (ex. Apple) themselves: Ex. If you were to buy an average song on Itunes (say at $1) that is of average size (say 5Mb) it would cost you $3200 to fill a 16Gb Nano wth legal music, never mind the $32 000 it would cost you to fill a 160Gb Ipod Classic with music legally. If people are already griping about the $179 they have to pay for a new Ipod Nano, in what CONCEIVABLE UNIVERSE are they going to spend $3200 for legal music to fill their new device if they can get it for "free" when thepiratebay is just a click away. Also, the market is incredibly saturated with new music and new artists, even in the absence of piracy one would see a decline of sales on a marginal level even though the industry as a whole is growing. The pie is increasing, but so is the line of takers.
Old 30th December 2010
  #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I do have a penchant for dramatic hyperbole at times.
Yes, you do... but alas, so do I.

Quote:
Actually I'm not at a certain that we'd get anything more accomplished in a face to face meeting but it's nice to have a feel for the person you're talking to in a way that can't easily be done online.
Fair enough... we shall see. I don't think there is really much to be done, but it might very well be you'll see I'm not the boogieman you and others make me out to be. Personally, I find it easy to agree to disagree with people in general.
Old 30th December 2010
  #279
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
The focus is on the data we have. If it's not quite conclusive, it's much more conclusive then no data. You are asking me to, what, just trust me because you KNOW, you are an expert? That trumps data to you (I get it, as my personal experience would potentially trump data too), but Chris, I've seen the way you think and how you jump to conclusions with very little data, and I say no thanks, I'll stick with the data.
But it isn't really data.

It looks like data, just as a snowman looks like a man. But they both melt in the light and heat of the sun.

A bunch of studies compiled by grad students aren't data. Sociology isn't a science. Neither is statistics. Or economics, for that matter. And those claim that any of those are are selling snake oil.

Accountancy is a science.

Economics is not.

An accountant would look at the figures for sales over a 40 year period and the figures for piracy over a 40 year period and conclude that the drop in sales and the increase in piracy are correlated. He would not conclude that the drop in sales is related to the economy because there was never any significant correlation before piracy hit. He would not conclude that it's related to hypothetical competition from other entertainment for the same reason, and from the fact that overall consumption has not dropped, it has increased.

The facts and figures are very clear. You only have to look at them. You keep asking for data. There it is

But what you want isn't really data. What you want is something to support what you already believe, and for that you turn to "studies" and socio-economic mumbo jumbo.

Socio-economic mumbo-jumbo is what got our economy into the sorry state that it's in right now. It's not science, although it pretends to be. It's bullshyt.
Old 30th December 2010
  #280
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR View Post
Both could easily go up as the technology is embraced by more people, the music industry is not a zero sum. People's appetites for more music and choice are increasing, and arguably they often download music they would never consciously consider buying. Partly the problem is fueled by the designers of the audio players (ex. Apple) themselves:

Ex.
If you were to buy an average song on Itunes (say at $1) that is of average size (say 5Mb) it would cost you $3200 to fill a 16Gb Nano wth legal music, never mind the $32 000 it would cost you to fill a 160Gb Ipod Classic with music legally.

If people are already griping about the $179 they have to pay for a new Ipod Nano, in what CONCEIVABLE UNIVERSE are they going to spend $3200 for legal music to fill their new device if they can get it for "free" when thepiratebay is just a click away.

Also, the market is incredibly saturated with new music and new artists, even in the absence of piracy one would see a decline of sales on a marginal level even though the industry as a whole is growing. The pie is increasing, but so is the line of takers.
well said and well illustrated.

who really thinks that 16 year olds with 5,000 songs on their ipod got them all legally? actually, outside of a few people on a forum like this, how likely is it that most people in the general population have paid for the majority of music on their ipods... I'd say if you we're to look at it, it'd look like there's an awful lot of illegally free music on those ipods, and the majority of it too...

Old 30th December 2010
  #281
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Actually I have the right to contradict you.
OK, you have a right but on what real world experience can you demonstrate to the forum that leads yo to declare I jump to 'wrong conclusions'?
And what specific 'wrong conclusions' have I jumped to? That's a pretty broad and vague accusation to cover a years worth of posts.


Quote:
Your trustworthiness is about how you interpret data, as seen right here. You have shown to me, IN MY OPINION, that you often conclude without having data to back it up. It has NOTHING to do with your industry experience. I'm only talking about how you respond to data.
There is NO DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There never will be.
The funny thing is, you are attacking me and all you have is out of date, pretty irrelevant research. You've failed to prove otherwise, or even argue your case, simply saying it's all we (more like you) have.
Where on the planet is a lifetime of experience in the subject being discussed not trustworthy, especially when it's contrasted with individuals who have no experience and only a link to a blog with a few small studies that are more than 5 years old.
I'm just asking where the common sense is here?
Never mind the psychoanalysis of me.
Old 30th December 2010
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
I'll be the guy who looks EXACTLY like my avatar.
I like you man,

but if you really look like Gandalf the Gray, then you just graduated to my list of "coolest guys ever!"

Old 30th December 2010
  #284
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nuthinupmysleeve's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
OK, you have a right but on what real world experience can you demonstrate to the forum that leads yo to declare I jump to 'wrong conclusions'?
Holy crap Chris. It has NOTHING to do with industry ANYTHING. I'm talking about general stuff, even the disconnect above where you suggest because you are in the industry and I'm not, that means I shouldn't make observations about your trustworthiness? Based on what I've seen here?

It's not even "right vs. wrong" conclusions.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, I know you might think I'm trying to be insulting, but I'm not. I'm only going by what I've read here, which is limited... but it's all that I have.

Quote:
And what specific 'wrong conclusions' have I jumped to? That's a pretty broad and vague accusation to cover a years worth of posts.
I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer why I feel the way I do... but either way, maybe you should just ignore it, it's just the opinion of a lowly piracy apologist and hobbyist and ______. Seriously, I'm not sure why it's such a problem.

Quote:
There is NO DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is data, and it is of limited, but real, value. Chris... it doesn't bother me that you disagree. Why are you so insistent that I see things your way?

There's no attempt from me to analyze you, Chris, I am not sure why you think that's what I'm doing. I'm just talking about my own observation.
Old 30th December 2010
  #285
Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR View Post
Both could easily go up as the technology is embraced by more people, the music industry is not a zero sum. People's appetites for more music and choice are increasing, and arguably they often download music they would never consciously consider buying. Partly the problem is fueled by the designers of the audio players (ex. Apple) themselves: Ex. If you were to buy an average song on Itunes (say at $1) that is of average size (say 5Mb) it would cost you $3200 to fill a 16Gb Nano wth legal music, never mind the $32 000 it would cost you to fill a 160Gb Ipod Classic with music legally. If people are already griping about the $179 they have to pay for a new Ipod Nano, in what CONCEIVABLE UNIVERSE are they going to spend $3200 for legal music to fill their new device if they can get it for "free" when thepiratebay is just a click away.
Well, you've got one damn good point there - Apple is making a killing off of encouraging and abetting piracy.

One would hope that people would use some of that huge amount of storage to increase the quality of their music by using WAVs or lossless FLACs, but Apple doesn't seem to really be encouraging that and many users don't appear to be concerned about quality.

Quote:
Also, the market is incredibly saturated with new music and new artists, even in the absence of piracy one would see a decline of sales on a marginal level even though the industry as a whole is growing. The pie is increasing, but so is the line of takers.
This is somewhat debatable. It's true that there's a glut of music on the internet, but how much of it is truly quality productions from real commercial quality artists? The answer to that would appear to be "Not Much". And that which is available is frequently obfuscated by the oceans of crap, making it more difficult to find.
Old 30th December 2010
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
But it isn't really data.
It IS data of course. It might be of limited value. But it is data, and there's no immediate sign of bias or poor scholarship in the ones I looked at. Nobody has actually provided any real analysis of why the data is problematic.

Fair enough about "science." The point isn't so much science, it's that they are using accepted methodology from what I've read and don't appear to have bias, have references, etc.

Quote:
An accountant would look at the figures for sales over a 40 year period and the figures for piracy over a 40 year period and conclude that the drop in sales and the increase in piracy are correlated.
An accountant might very well suggest that he believes they are correlated. He wouldn't suggest he KNOWS anything without diving deeper into the numbers, if he's worth anything. He might also look at 5 year old data and suggest it appears things are trending in a particular direction, and he might say it's not conclusive.

Quote:
He would not conclude that the drop in sales is related to the economy because there was never any significant correlation before piracy hit.
OK, so first, help me by supporting your argument that the recorded music industry sales aren't impacted by economic conditions. Can you provide a resource for me?

Quote:
He would not conclude that it's related to hypothetical competition from other entertainment for the same reason, and from the fact that overall consumption has not dropped, it has increased.
Again, that's really silly John. Free consumption has increased, paid has not. People have a limited amount of money for entertainment. It's a very difficult thing to break down.

Quote:
But what you want isn't really data. What you want is something to support what you already believe, and for that you turn to "studies" and socio-economic mumbo jumbo.
Funny how you keep telling me what I want. I have changed my mind as a result of things I've read here and things I've read as a result of them being referenced here. These things have changed my mind both ways... for example, about how much more widespread piracy is, but also how many other factors have impacted the music industry's success. So do me a favor. Don't be a prick and try and tell me what I want.
Old 30th December 2010
  #287
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundrick View Post
I like you man,

but if you really look like Gandalf the Gray, then you just graduated to my list of "coolest guys ever!"

Gandalf The Grey? I'm flattered! That is in fact a picture of me as I'm often found at my local bar, using my flashlight (all live sound engineers should carry a flashlight at all times) to read a science fiction book. It is indeed a good picture - the guy who took it has been selling signed copies (by him, not me) at an exhibition of his photography for $40 a pop.

If you don't believe it's really me, ask Jules or James Lugo, who both met me at the recent AES show.
Old 30th December 2010
  #288
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
you suggest because you are in the industry and I'm not, that means I shouldn't make observations about your trustworthiness? Based on what I've seen here?

It's not even "right vs. wrong" conclusions.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, I know you might think I'm trying to be insulting, but I'm not.

Where have I even jumped to any 'conclusions'?

That's really my point, you have conclusions - you call it 'data' and a 'hunch'.
I haven't made any conclusions about a percentage, or what kind of person is a pirate etc, etc.....
And no I don't actually appreciate being called 'untrustworthy, or 'on crack' and all the rest of it. tutt
If you'd ever worked in 'the industry' you'd simply understand why I have so much time for those kind of people, and the opinions they have. It's usually experience hard won..... hard won!
But then you think they're 'ants' who can't see what you're seeing.
Old 30th December 2010
  #289
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
An accountant might very well suggest that he believes they are correlated. He wouldn't suggest he KNOWS anything without diving deeper into the numbers, if he's worth anything. He might also look at 5 year old data and suggest it appears things are trending in a particular direction, and he might say it's not conclusive.
One column up, one column down. Looks pretty clear cut to me.

Quote:
OK, so first, help me by supporting your argument that the recorded music industry sales aren't impacted by economic conditions. Can you provide a resource for me?
Not immediately. I'll try and look into it. Historically entertainment does better than other industries during an economic turndown. Perhaps the Billboard sales charts would be useful.

Quote:
Again, that's really silly John. Free consumption has increased, paid has not. People have a limited amount of money for entertainment. It's a very difficult thing to break down.
People have the same amount for entertainment they've always had. In rough times people will avoid paying for big ticket items but they'll still buy entertainment to keep their minds off the screwed up state everything's in. The gaming industry is booming - because you can't pirate online games easily and effectively. People are still buying tickets for ball games - which cost more than ever, while the price of music has dropped.

Free consumption has increased because demand has increased. Paid consumption has dropped because sadly most people today are not of the best moral character and will gladly steal any time they think they can get away with it, especially if it's stupid easy. Thing is to make it not stupid easy. Increasing the chances of consequences to those who organize and profit from this will help.

Back before the current free for all pirates always used to be paranoid about getting caught and kept their communities small and exclusive. Now everybody's doing it and nobody worries the slightest bit. We need to put the paranoia back into piracy.
Old 30th December 2010
  #290
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This is good reading here, in particular for John:

The recession in the music industry – a cause analysis « Music Business Research

From the article, here are a couple of interesting sections:

Quote:
Since CD sales in the U.S., Britain, and Germany have been falling since 2000 and 1999, respectively it seems obvious to explain this decrease by pointing to the appearance of NAPSTER, which already attracted millions of users every day in the fall of 1999. However, the figures also showed that the Japanese market, the second most important market in the world, already suffered an 8.2% loss of CD sales between 1997 and 1999, but that it was up by 7.9% in 2000. In Japan sales were in decline even before the onset of NAPSTER, which industry representatives would probably explain by pointing to the emerging practice of ripping and burning CDs. For the French market no such simple explanations work. In 2001, an historic high of CD sales was measured before the recession startet in 2002, when the hype around NAPSTER was already history. However, since it is not very realictic to assume that French music consumers had not been aware of how to obtain music for free over the net until 2002, it can safely be assumed that they used NAPSTER as avidly as did consumers in other countries. Similarily, it cannot be explained why the UK-market – after a minus of 17.7% from 2000 to 2001 –was able to hold its sales level in subsequent years, despite the emergence of new P2P-filesharing systems. From 2003 to 2004 one could even observe an increase of 4.4%. In the UK, the first strong sales slumps took place only in 2007. Thus, there are empirical anomalies that put the “filesharing-thesis” into question.
It's pretty hard to look at this and see the 1:1 correlation that you suggest.

Continuing on... taking your belief that the music industry is immune to global economics, have a look at this:

Quote:
Are there other causes of the current recession? To answer this question, we must go back to the time before the launch of the CD (1982/83). The continuing boom in the phonographic industry in nearly all markets came to a sudden end in the late 1970s. Especially the UK-market was hit particularly hard. Between 1977 and 1980, sales of recorded music decreased by 26.4%. In the United States the units sold declined 10.4% from 1978 to 1979, which amounted to a value-based sales drop of 11.0%. In France 8.3% less recorded music was sold between 1978 and 1980. Only in Germany and Japan sales declines were moderate with 3.4% (1978-1980) and 2.2% (1977-1978), respectively. But the recession hit the middle and small markets particularily hard. In Denmark, the sales of recorded music slumped 29,4% in 1980 compared to the previous year. In Austria the decline in sales was also serious with a minus of 13.8% from 1978 to 1979. There was hardly a country in the Western Hemisphere where recorded music sales decreased by less than 10% (Table 1).
Continuing after the graph:

Quote:
At the time, reports blamed the decline in recorded music sales on the world-wide recession triggered by the second oil crisis as well as the competition with other media on the one hand and, on the other hand, on privately copying music onto audio cassettes. But even contemporary authors considered these explanations insufficient. Thus, Pekka Gronow suspected in 1983 in a scientific paper in the journal of Popular Music: “Explanation has been sought in the general economic recession, the influence of private copying, and competition from other media. But perhaps records, as a mass medium, have now reached the saturation point.” (p 72). He made the point pretty well, as can be demonstrated by the subsequent analysis of sales figures for the global market of recorded music.
Pretty interesting stuff.
Old 30th December 2010
  #291
And while I'm on my soapbox.....
Over the Christmas holidays the tv stations have been showing highlights of the past summer festivals, events like Glastonbury.
When I look at the inventive, talented young musicians. Some great young bands who have obviously worked very hard and are enthusiastic about their music and their future.........
Then I think about the discussions we've had here about many more musicians going part time, or packing it in altogether. Or that young musicians should sell t-shirts.
It breaks my heart to be honest.

I wish people would think about the fresh faced musos in their twenties when they talk about the greedy industry having it's comeuppance, not the cliche of Lars Ulrich and Gene Simmons.
Old 30th December 2010
  #292
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KrisMiller's Avatar
 

Cant remember the last time I bought a compact disc. I bought records last week, but for some reason I cant justify buying a dying medium. This is not a contraction BTW....
Old 30th December 2010
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post

I wish people would think about the fresh faced musos in their twenties when they talk about the greedy industry having it's comeuppance, not the cliche of Lars Ulrich and Gene Simmons.
I agree, it is sad, but why must one only focus on one side? The industry does have their share of legitimate horror stories, and success stories.
Old 30th December 2010
  #294
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
I agree, it is sad, but why must one only focus on one side?
Because it's the youngsters with their whole careers in front of them that are going to suffer if downloading albums without paying becomes the norm, and selling t-shirts becomes the way to earn a crust.
Don't you get that?
Old 30th December 2010
  #295
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Yeah, I must say I feel the research into CD sales a little bewildering.

In the first paragraph Peter Tschmuck cites several research papers he's used for his analysis.
First up, a claim that 'filesharing use does not necessarily have a negative impact on physical and digital sales'.
This emanates from a conclusion made by Oberholzer and Strumpf (2004), and I quote:
Quote:
conducted on a file sharing server, described in more detail later in the paper, over 11/23/02-12/2/02. 159 users completed the survey.
Next up Tschmuck cites 'Blackburn'
Quote:
In this study, Neilsen SoundScan applied what amounts to a difference-in-differences estimator to measure the changes in music sales
between 1997 and 2000 in areas around college campuses and areas not around college campus. They found much larger drops in sales in the areas around college campuses, attributing this change to the effects of Napster (Fine 2000).
Next up Andersen and Frenz.
Their charts all date to 2005, and:
Quote:
Decima Research conducted 2,100 telephone interviews with Canadian households, and provided the raw data.
At last, some reasonably contemporary research; Huygen
I found this an interesting quote:
Quote:
The number of file sharers in the Netherlands is relatively high, which can be explained by the early introduction of broadband in the country and its high penetration. Music is by far the most frequently downloaded product. Based on a compilation of different sources, the number of music downloads in the Netherlands can be estimated at between 1.5 and 2 billion per year, which would amount to 7.5 downloads for each track sold. That said, not all downloaded tracks are actually listened to as consumers tend to download a great deal more music than they
listen to.
Old 30th December 2010
  #296
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
This is good reading here, in particular for John:

The recession in the music industry – a cause analysis « Music Business Research

From the article, here are a couple of interesting sections:



It's pretty hard to look at this and see the 1:1 correlation that you suggest.

Continuing on... taking your belief that the music industry is immune to global economics, have a look at this:



Continuing after the graph:



Pretty interesting stuff.
8%? 3%? That's negligible and within normal market deviations. 50%-60%-70% is not.

I'll grant you a few percent due to recession. When the economy tanks, music sales may drop by a couple or so percent. No biggie. That's not what we're discussing - it isn't an industry killer.
+/- 5% isn't anything, it's within "standard specs". Even +/- 10%.

What we're talking about is one FVCK of a lot bigger. What we're talking about is the total profit margin and re-investment capital of an entire industry.

What you're talking about could easily be absorbed by standard industry discount deals to big box retailers. It's nothing.
Old 30th December 2010
  #297
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
Continuing on... taking your belief that the music industry is immune to global economics, have a look at this:

Continuing after the graph:

Pretty interesting stuff.
this is interesting as well... prior to piracy the record industry was largely immune to economic downturns, and some genres even grew (metal & punk for example)

let's look at the robust stability of low cost items during a recession.

songs are 99 cents, less than ONE dollar, less than the cost of a candy bar in many cases.

low ticket items are the most recession proof, the larger ticket items take the hit first, and remain effected - housing, cars, durable goods like appliances... etc.

hershey's stock price has almost doubled in the past 10 years... the music industry has lost half it's revenue, guess which one is being pirated and which one is not?

Hersey Stock Nov 8 2000 = 26.00
Hershey Stock Nov 8 2010 = 48.46

music, cheaper than a candy bar and last's a lifetime...

Also if we were to look at the share price and market cap of Apple over the last decade we would also find an increase and not a decrease of those high ticket priced products which are also not pirated and distributed as easy as a Google search.

The economic truth is, the money is out there if the product is not available illegally free, and consequence free.

Funny thing is, if you look at who's REALLY been making money in the last decade, they seem to be profiting from the availability of free content to drive their goods (Apple) and services (ISP's, Google, Etc).

Who's Really Destroying Music? Take a Closer Look...
Old 30th December 2010
  #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lives For Fuzz View Post
this is interesting as well... prior to piracy the record industry was largely immune to economic downturns.
If you read the link, you would see a clear impact on music in the worldwide economic recession of late 70's. Funny, though, as you are the first one to accuse others of only seeing what they want to see..
Old 30th December 2010
  #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
8%? 3%? That's negligible and within normal market deviations. 50%-60%-70% is not.
I don't think you read the entire article. Please do. The music industry worldwide was hit by the economy in the 70's, not just in small amounts either.
Old 30th December 2010
  #300
Quote:
Originally Posted by psalad View Post
If you read the link, you would see a clear impact on music in the worldwide economic recession of late 70's. Funny, though, as you are the first one to accuse others of only seeing what they want to see..
it's a non-issue, I'll chart those numbers against the graph below and we'll see how it looks... there's a brief two year dip, and then a massive rebound, and that's before the introduction CD's...

something tells me what we're experiencing now is unprecedented and the numbers provided there will bare this out.

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