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UK consumers back file-sharing clampdown
Old 22nd August 2011
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
... The sour taste in my mouth is from the numerous ISP's (including major telcos) that have blocked all attempts to slow or decrease piracy - likewise Google. ...
This is where we differ - I see it as "... have blocked all attempts to slow or decrease their revenue stream ...". Nothing to do with the legality of the traffic. They really don't want to know if it's legal or not - the "common carrier" doctrine. The law has been firmly on their side until now, and it's only now that the technical means of identifying *potentially* infringing traffic is becoming practical, hence the increasing pressure for ISPs to do so.

So. Can we agree what role you would like the ISP to play, either voluntarily or required by law? Personally, I don't think they should be "law enforcement officers". I think they should co-operate with the cops, not be cops. They should provide evidence as lawfully requested, and apply enforcement action as lawfully ordered.
Old 22nd August 2011
  #122
Lives for gear
 

Seems sensible to me. Perhaps you should mention this in the more relevant thread you started:

The PROTECT IP ACT has been introduced.
Old 22nd August 2011
  #123
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
You don't understand.

The point is that since now AT&T is looking at being a content provider they are reversing their decades long policy of being pirate-friendly.
We've argued this before. Where you see "pirate friendly", I see "common carrier". As in, they didn't want to know.
Old 22nd August 2011
  #124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
So. Can we agree what role you would like the ISP to play, either voluntarily or required by law? Personally, I don't think they should be "law enforcement officers". I think they should co-operate with the cops, not be cops. They should provide evidence as lawfully requested, and apply enforcement action as lawfully ordered.
In all kinds of industries voluntary self regulation has been a dismal failure.
Personally I would love to see them co-operate. History is not on their side. Actual moves to block copyright enforcement and the blatant ignoring of content creators pleas is a bad start.
The clear evidence is that they'll happily watch the destruction of people's livelihoods if it increases their profits (as in your research linked to above).
If they started to do something, anything, it would be a step forward and perhaps the move we need to foster collaboration.
Old 23rd August 2011
  #125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
We've argued this before. Where you see "pirate friendly", I see "common carrier". As in, they didn't want to know.
Because it might affect their profits if they did.
Old 23rd August 2011
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
In all kinds of industries voluntary self regulation has been a dismal failure.
I didn't suggest that ISPs should "voluntarily self regulate". In fact, I said it was a bad idea. I suggested that they should co-operate with rights enforcers, voluntarily or by law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Personally I would love to see them co-operate. History is not on their side. Actual moves to block copyright enforcement and the blatant ignoring of content creators pleas is a bad start. ...
I see that as "... moves to block interference in the (legal) way they run their businesses". You don't have to like that attitude, but they have a legal right (and legal responsibility to their shareholders) to do that. Content creators / rights holders have legal protection and remedies, they aren't charity cases. If you want otherwise, buy a controlling interest / take seats on the board of directors and tell them you'll accept the hit to dividends if they do things the way you want.
Old 23rd August 2011
  #127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
I suggested that they should co-operate with rights enforcers, voluntarily or by law.
OK, voluntary co-operation hasn't been in their game plan so far, has it?

Quote:
Content creators / rights holders have legal protection and remedies, they aren't charity cases.
If there were practical remedies they would have been enforced right?
The internet has turned into a whole new ball game. When trying to employ previously useful remedies, like copyright infringement laws, content creators have been strongly criticised by net users and by many tech companies.
Old 23rd August 2011
  #128
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AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
I didn't suggest that ISPs should "voluntarily self regulate". In fact, I said it was a bad idea. I suggested that they should co-operate with rights enforcers, voluntarily or by law.
Well... they, since the inception of the internet... have NOT cooperated with rights holders/enforcement, and in fact cock-block any effort hitherto
Old 23rd August 2011
  #129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
I see that as "... moves to block interference in the (legal) way they run their businesses". You don't have to like that attitude, but they have a legal right (and legal responsibility to their shareholders) to do that. Content creators / rights holders have legal protection and remedies, they aren't charity cases. If you want otherwise, buy a controlling interest / take seats on the board of directors and tell them you'll accept the hit to dividends if they do things the way you want.
That's the same reasoning that robber barons always try to use as an excuse.

Which is why a laissez-faire policy toward business is always detrimental to society.
Old 23rd August 2011
  #130
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
That's the same reasoning that robber barons always try to use as an excuse.

Which is why a laissez-faire policy toward business is always detrimental to society.
I wasn't agreeing with their actions, just pointing out why they act as they do. You only have to look at the state of the US - indeed, global - economy to see the results of this policy.
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