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Old 18th March 2015
  #421
Monitor control panel now working.

Click for video

Last edited by Nuisance; 18th March 2015 at 02:35 AM..
Old 24th March 2015
  #422
Here for the gear
 

About those double sandwich plasterboard layers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
The first plasterboard is nailed to the frame, the deadsheet is simply laid down and then covered with the second layer of plasterboard, which is nailed to the frame again. We use large-head galvanized steel nails for the job.

The deadsheet I use is this one:
ACUSTICA INTEGRAL - Insulating acoustic materials - LA Absorbent Sheet
or similar.

First, I want to express my huge appreciation for this unbelievably informative and helpful thread. Thank you Branko!

Here goes my question:

After your first replay, I thought that the deadsheet (bitumen) layer is just nailed between the plasterboards, but then I saw that the LA Absorbent Sheet is self-adhesive. Are you using this quality of it and is it theoretically beneficial to be glued?
Old 24th March 2015
  #423
I'm glad you like the construction diary. By sharing this information, we wanted to stress the importance of proper acoustical treatment and encourage people to build better rooms.

About the LA sheets - we always nail them, as they are always the inner part of the sandwich, so nails will always go through them.
Old 4th April 2015
  #424
Old 4th April 2015
  #425
Thanks to Branko for being my lighting assistant on this shot.

Old 22nd April 2015
  #426
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
The first plasterboard is nailed to the frame, the deadsheet is simply laid down and then covered with the second layer of plasterboard, which is nailed to the frame again. We use large-head galvanized steel nails for the job.

The deadsheet I use is this one:
ACUSTICA INTEGRAL - Insulating acoustic materials - LA Absorbent Sheet
or similar.
I hope I am not being too big of a bother, but I have one more question about the nailing details.
I am trying to build half-a-wall just to test all the details/materials (before I actually go for the whole shell).
I already build the stud frame as described (60cm centers), and now I am nailing the (gypsum-bitumen-gypsum) sandwich.

Do you nail the sandwich to every vertical beam, or only at the end boundaries of the plasterboard sheets (1.2m wide)?

(Nailing it on every vertical beam seems quite stiff, and I am a bit scared that it won't have enough give to vibrate (as the biggest "free" membrane area is going to be 2.5mx0.6m (for my 2.5m ceiling)))
Old 22nd April 2015
  #427
Every 60cm (2 foot) in every direction.

It doesn't vibrate or flex as such the idea is that it resists flexing in a structure that has a tendency to want to flex and the constrained layer (dead sheet) which is resisting the flexing does it's job in turning the kinetic energy into heat (very very small amount). In addition as a part of its function it adds mass and damping to the wall as a whole. The wooden studs are an integral part of the whole system and cannot effectively be replaced by metal studs without adversely affecting the performance of the wall.




Last edited by Nuisance; 22nd April 2015 at 09:12 PM..
Old 24th April 2015
  #428
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuisance View Post
Every 60cm (2 foot) in every direction.
Ok, so basically, nails on every vertical beam... But what do you mean exactly by 'every direction' - does this imply that the space between every 2 nails is also 60cm? (I am using combination of screws and nails on every 25cm or so). Kind-a scared to not overcook it or something

(Btw, I have the book with this picture. The best book for studio design I've read.)
Old 24th April 2015
  #429
You can't over do it.

It just becomes pointless beyond a certain level and when we are building a studio commercially time is money, and so are screws /nails / staples.

I mean you could glue it, that would be a total bond, but it has been tested to be of no benefit in terms of the result. The laminate just needs to be held together firmly so the layers can't slip against each other and defeat the object of their presence.
A 60cm grid of fixings (whatever they be) has proven adequate. If we are stapling the layers (5cm 16 gauge Paslode staples) we often use more as they are much faster to apply but hold the boards less well.

All those fancy special "acoustic" glues work that way, just the same, but are about 10 times the cost of what we use and to achieve the same effect you'd have to put about 18 tubes of such glue on each sheet which would be an insane cost for a room the size of these.

The bitumen dead sheet is made from a waste by-product from oil refining so is relatively cheap
The sheets we use vary but are about 15Kg per sheet of sheetrock, or sometimes as low as 10kg.

If you peel the plastic film from the Danosa product you have a sticky surface that directly bonds to the face of whatever it is sandwiched between. We tried that on one or two occasions but the end result was absolutely no different. We do that when we use it in the doors just for some extra grip as they are subject to more abuse.

The Danosa product we use a little more these days than the very similar Acousica Intergral

DANOSA - Membrana Acústica Danosa M.A.D.4

DANOSA - Membrana Acústica Danosa

You can absolutely equally as effectively use commercial roofing membrane of a similar type (without the stone chips of course) We have done that when we have run out of the main batch of material and needed to source some locally very quickly.

It really doesn't matter which product you use so long as it it of similar properties similar mass and similar density.
Old 24th April 2015
  #430
There are two functions to this method, both go hand in hand. The first is isolation, with the methods I described the membrane massively increases the isolation properties of the walls, but also it damps most structural resonances within the walls stopping any nasty rings or booms from wall structure resonance.

It's not, by any means a very effective isolator down at the low end, but that is not what we use these walls for. the external floated concrete bunker is there for that, this is more for acoustic control as a concrete bunker is a horrible acoustic space.

A degree of acoustic control happens by letting the bass pass these walls, as it passes it looses power, when it reflects from the bunker (which it cannot pass) it has to pass the walls again. If it looses 20db on each pass you get 40db of absorption compared to just the bunker being there.

The more these walls isolate the less they control the internal acoustics as more energy gets reflected so there is an element of allowing certain frequencies to pass involved in the construction. Two layers of sheetrock with one layer of deadsheet is optimum in most situations

As in many cases these walls are behind further trapping devices in our studios they are augmented by the traps and if, lets say the trap takes out ,for example, 40db on each pass you end up with a huge loss of reflected energy from the bunker walls. Lets not forget that the bunker walls are not 100% reflective and become absorptive lower down where there is energy to excite them due to their damped nature (full of sand) and acoustic suspension.

We've measured well over 120db isolation at 25Hz in these structures in well implemented cases. The theory is very very simple, easy to implement, very robust and repeatable.
Old 27th April 2015
  #431
Here for the gear
 

Thank you for the thorough explanation! It makes big sense and it is definitely encouraging for my experiment.
My first room resonance is at 26hz, pretty low, and I am trying to have _some_ result down there.
I don't know if it is too far fetched to hope for some effect with only 2 by 2.5 meters half-wall (sealed to the concrete wall) and the sandwich spaced at about 15cm.
(I have 11cm gap from the concrete wall, then 4cm rockwool attached to the sandwich (10kg gypsum-4.5kg bitumen-10kg gypsum). The sandwich is total of about 25kg per m2.
I am hoping to measure some improvement at 25hz-35hz which will motivate me and keep me convinced to continue building the whole shell.
I know it may sound like I am too skeptic, but I want to first "feel the soil" before making the big effort.
Old 5th May 2015
  #432
Old 5th May 2015
  #433
After completing the building and acoustical treatment, and after installing and fine-tuning our monitoring system, a time has come to finish this whole project with a major update one studio can get.

On Monday, we received a big shipment of boxes. Various sizes and shapes, they all had one thing in common: a label saying "Avid S6".



Quickly finished everything that was scheduled for the morning session, and started disassembling the good old ICON D-Control, a really beautiful desk that has served us during the last decade. During these ten years of service, it was installed in two rooms, and worked perfectly during all that time.
In total, we had less than 3-4 hours of downtime, which is a record that not many consoles can claim.





By the end of the afternoon, everything was cleared, ready for the new desk to step in.

D-Control will now go to the storage room, waiting for someone to buy it.



Today we started building the new desk, more pictures to come.
Old 5th May 2015
  #434
Mr. Nuisance has taken some pictures of the S6 build, I'm sure he'll publish them soon.
Old 6th May 2015
  #435
Yeah, but you can have all the best gear in the world but it's useless without a great team.....
Old 6th May 2015
  #436
Luckily we have both.

Some of the Loudness Films team and the Avid team Putting the S6 together.














Last edited by Nuisance; 6th May 2015 at 12:43 AM..
Old 6th May 2015
  #437
Old 6th May 2015
  #438
Old 6th May 2015
  #439
Old 6th May 2015
  #440
Totally by accident the Acer touch-screen monitors we had fit the producers desk perfectly using their own stands


Last edited by Nuisance; 6th May 2015 at 01:07 AM..
Old 6th May 2015
  #441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuisance View Post
Yeah, but you can have all the best gear in the world but it's useless without a great team.....

Luckily we have both.
Probably the most important part of our business is this great team we have here at LOUDNESS - gear is just helping everyone to give his best.
Just look at those pictures in previous post. It seems we've put together a "S6 industrial production line".
Thinking about that, we could offer "S6 assembling service" to studios in the area...
Old 6th May 2015
  #442
It was eventually switched on.























Old 7th May 2015
  #443
279793
Guest
Looks great! Thanks for sharing in such depth - it's so cool to get this sort of quality advice. I've never seen a flat pack desk before, either!
Old 16th May 2015
  #444
Gear Head
 

Great add to the LOUDNESS, I hope someday I can visit to check it out.

I live really close to LOUDNESS.

Cheers
Marco

Last edited by UnFraGile; 31st August 2015 at 10:26 PM..
Old 28th August 2015
  #445
Gear Head
 

I've heard today that your Avid S6 system is the largest in Europe

NICE

And found this Nuisance -
Old 31st August 2015
  #446
I think there's a bigger desk in Italy - our is 48 faders and I've heard the Italian is 64. We opted for producer's desk on one side and that takes up 2 fader bays.
Here's the latest picture:





You can notice we have installed only 5 TFT modules, but I will probably get one more, as it is such a good source of useful information...

My initial idea was to reserve those 8 faders for VCAs only, but it isn't that useful as I thought it will be.
Old 31st August 2015
  #447
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnFraGile View Post
I'm live really close to LOUDNESS.
You're welcome, just check if I'm in the shop.
Old 31st August 2015
  #448
Lives for gear
 
andrebrito's Avatar
 

Great photos, good luck with the project, glad to see it is almost done !
Old 31st August 2015
  #449
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Branko View Post
You're welcome, just check if I'm in the shop.
I will

Thank you
Old 2nd September 2015
  #450
Wow Branko this is very inspiring!! thank you very much for sharing
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