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Amsterdam Mastering - construction thread Modular Synthesizers
Old 1st April 2009
  #361
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Avocet doesn't show any levels/doesn't appear to be on ??
Old 1st April 2009
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius van H View Post
heh

I took that photo myself with the 10 second timer..........i wonder if anyone can spot the deliberate mistake.
The hairdo? You photoshopped your mulet away?
Old 1st April 2009
  #363
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You use earplugs....
Old 1st April 2009
  #364
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It seems like you are applying some special kind of stereo EQ, a little bass on the left, some low mid on the right. Then again I can't tell what you were hearing from that picture.
Old 2nd April 2009
  #365
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mistake

perhaps, the sound manager box (i do not know the name...) need 2 cables not one on the left in ?

the level meter not show a lot of level...?
Old 2nd April 2009
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommylicious View Post
It seems like you are applying some special kind of stereo EQ, a little bass on the left, some low mid on the right. Then again I can't tell what you were hearing from that picture.
Bingo
Old 2nd April 2009
  #367
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what is the third one ?
Old 2nd April 2009
  #368
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You bought a cheap secondhand computer keyboard and they didn't tell you it only had the number pad? :-)
Old 2nd April 2009
  #369
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Funny you should mention the keyboard - for my proper website photos i actually bought a fancy low profile Apple Keyboard...........however it doesn't want to work with the USB extender (and i haven't had time to install the ethernet USB extender i bought), so i've had to revert to that cheap and nasty keyboard you see in the picture. But for this API picture I forgot to swap in the Apple keyboard.

So, you have in fact spotted mistake #4 and have won free weekly album masterings for life!

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyspiller View Post
You bought a cheap secondhand computer keyboard and they didn't tell you it only had the number pad?
Old 2nd April 2009
  #370
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Cool Darius - I just finished an album yesterday so I'll be in touch if the client has the budget - fantastic place you have there. . . .
Old 3rd April 2009
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius van H View Post
Bingo
Woohoo!

What did I win? A free climb up that wall?
Old 6th April 2009
  #372
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very nice to see a beautiful mastering studio like this built in the netherlands! We're in noord-brabant! succes ermee!
Old 6th April 2009
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamdring View Post
HEDD is showing no levels/over lights are on ??
Yep, first thing I noticed that the low levels seems to be on the wrong side of the display. Great place!

Henk
Old 13th April 2009
  #374
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absolutely stunning facility you have. Great Job
Old 13th April 2009
  #375
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WOW!!
Old 22nd April 2009
  #376
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Oh, my. Even the hall is gorgeous.
Old 19th May 2009
  #377
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius van H View Post
The fabric chaps are finished - there only needs to be a bit of finishing around the diffusers, which will be done after Xmas.

It looks amazing and the guys did a fantastic job........it's hard to see in the photos, but these guys are normally furniture upholsterers - it has a quality, slightly padded, furniture feel/look to it.
Hi Darius,

I was just wondering where you got your fabric from? I'm on a mission trying to find the right kind for my new control room but I keep being off by just a bit. Either the color I like is too thick or the right type (breathable) is too shiny/flimsy.

If you can't remember where it was purchased, do you remember what kind it is? (I'm in the Netherlands too btw.)

Thanks.
Old 19th May 2009
  #378
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The fabric was done by a company from Brussels - I think they're called Pardaens.....they don't have a website - they're upholsterers that usually do furniture. It took them four and a half long days and these guys work hard!

Contact Thomas at Northward Acoustics for more info.

The fabric itself came from Ross in the UK.

Good luck! ................ D
Old 25th May 2009
  #379
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are my questions so inconvenient to you, or why they are commentless deleted?

This is a very ridiculous behaviour from you.

what is so hard on the questions about the theese two cubes and the front wall? Yes I know Velodyne extremly good, and I know the Nautilus good as too. So because of that I know definitly, that the Velodynes are in every aspect are totally under-dimensioned (and overpriced either, but thats another fact).


And the front-wall. Yes indeed, it is a LeDe room, I plan such rooms too. And the problem is the great plane frontwall. What is with the early reflections from the speakers, youre getting from this wall? They causes distortions and tonality changes in the phantom center. Why havn't you install there some diffusors, or only a tringangel geometry of the front wall?


That was my questions and I hope it isn't to inconvenient to answer them.
Old 25th May 2009
  #380
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well if you hire the designer you might get your answer ...
Old 25th May 2009
  #381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
are my questions so inconvenient to you, or why they are commentless deleted?

This is a very ridiculous behaviour from you.

what is so hard on the questions about the theese two cubes and the front wall? Yes I know Velodyne extremly good, and I know the Nautilus good as too. So because of that I know definitly, that the Velodynes are in every aspect are totally under-dimensioned (and overpriced either, but thats another fact).


And the front-wall. Yes indeed, it is a LeDe room, I plan such rooms too. And the problem is the great plane frontwall. What is with the early reflections from the speakers, youre getting from this wall? They causes distortions and tonality changes in the phantom center. Why havn't you install there some diffusors, or only a tringangel geometry of the front wall?


That was my questions and I hope it isn't to inconvenient to answer them.
It's called a front to back room if I remember correctly. You would have seen it if you read the thread

This was a professional and probably expensive build. I'm certain everything that was done the way it was done was carefully planned and calculated.

Lastly, perhaps your questions weren't answered due to the fact that your questions are hard to read

Chill dude
Old 25th May 2009
  #382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
And the front-wall. Yes indeed, it is a LeDe room, I plan such rooms too.
Hi again,

It's is not a LEDE room. It's a FTB room. I explain the general idea behind this type of room earlier in the thread. They have almost nothing in common.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
And the problem is the great plane frontwall. What is with the early reflections from the speakers, youre getting from this wall? They causes distortions and tonality changes in the phantom center. Why havn't you install there some diffusors, or only a tringangel geometry of the front wall?
I think you are misunderstanding how this room works, and how the energy scatters & behaves in it. In this case, diffusors where you propose them would have only created problems, while not solving any since there aren't any to start with.

In other types of designs you can indeed sometimes see diffused front walls. But the rooms are not based on the same concept - and therefore you'd be comparing apples and oranges.

In case you missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Northward View Post
Darius's room is a « Front to Back Room » and it is in it's philosophy very, very close to a non-environment design – which Tom Hidley introduced in the early 80s.

In fact, FTB rooms are based on the non-environment design ideas – which IMHO are the best rooms. FTB just adds a few twists and variations in the design.

The principle of the design (energy build up in the front) in fact imposes the front wall to be reflective at most frequencies (though the front wall is carefully engineered to allow some lower freq to partially go through, and be trapped there).

This may seem odd at first, but it is normal and a very important part of the design. These rooms are in a way « hemi-anechoic » rooms - some sort of inverted LEDE. The speakers also behave very much as if they were flush mounted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
That was my questions and I hope it isn't to inconvenient to answer them.
While I am more than willing to discuss the general principals behind our designs I can't give it all away - this type of info is confidential. I need to protect both my work and my clients.

Please understand and respect this.
Old 25th May 2009
  #383
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yes indeed, I respect this, no matter. I've wrote down my respect to your greatfull work in my first post here too, but this is deleted now


But...I can't see any difference between LeDe and FTB. The designs are exact the same. And the idea behind both is the same too. Guiding the energy from the front to the back of the room, where it is absorbed. But the problem is, guiding the waves in that way to the back, so that they aren't stripe the listening position. And thats the point of my question. For me it looks like that the sound waves, reflected firstly by the frontwall, go straight through the listening position. Or am I wrong with that? Nothing more I ask. Or is this information confidential too?



And yes sorry for my bad english. I'm from germany and haven't to do much in english. Hope you can read it anyway
Old 25th May 2009
  #384
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Quick recap, valid for all readers and posters.

1) Read the thread

2) If any info is shared that is thanks to Darius and his chosen Designer. It was obvious from that start that this is not a classic "discussion" thread but rather a diary with some very interesting chat about chosen design and its actual outcome/realisation.
Take criticising elsewhere. Same applies to in depth questions. It is overly clear that we are talking about commercial facility with an investment and a professional acoustical design company therefore we cannot expect total disclosure of data and principles behind the chosen design.


3) Aggressive behaviour is not tolerated in ANY form
Old 25th May 2009
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
But...I can't see any difference between LeDe and FTB. The designs are exact the same. And the idea behind both is the same too. Guiding the energy from the front to the back of the room, where it is absorbed.
This is where you got it wrong 180°:

In LEDE, the front of the room is dead, the back is live. FTBs are in many ways the exact opposite of that.

Furthermore, FTBs have a very carefully studied geometry (shaped room, RFZ etc) and the front wall's partially reflective surface has a limited, calculated area compared to the rest of the studio. The design includes full Early Reflections (ER) and speaker management.

I'm afraid, you got it all pretty mixed up.

Random google link to a good explanation of LEDE rooms. Should be pretty obvious what the differences are wrt FTBs.

Primacoustic - Acoustical Solutions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
But the problem is, guiding the waves in that way to the back, so that they aren't stripe the listening position. And thats the point of my question. For me it looks like that the sound waves, reflected firstly by the frontwall, go straight through the listening position. Or am I wrong with that? Nothing more I ask. Or is this information confidential too?
See above, look at the various pictures of the room, and think again... Your question makes no sense.

Have a nice day.
Old 25th May 2009
  #386
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Hello,

ok, seems to be an error from my side. For me was that what you call FTB the whole time LEDE. So we meant the same and I must renew my knowledge about the real LEDE


@ Riccardo
I sorry, I haven't had any intention for aggressive behavior. If you read that on this way I'm sorry. My english isn't skilled so good as you can obviously see
That this was the wrong thread for the questions was a thing I didn't know, because in this thread was posted several questions. But ok, the thing is cleared out now... The question about the subwoofer is open furthermore, but I think everybody here believes, that a big name and a high price is all what counts, or?
Old 25th May 2009
  #387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poison Nuke View Post
Hello,

ok, seems to be an error from my side. For me was that what you call FTB the whole time LEDE. So we meant the same and I must renew my knowledge about the real LEDE


@ Riccardo
I sorry, I haven't had any intention for aggressive behavior. If you read that on this way I'm sorry. My english isn't skilled so good as you can obviously see
That this was the wrong thread for the questions was a thing I didn't know, because in this thread was posted several questions. But ok, the thing is cleared out now... The question about the subwoofer is open furthermore, but I think everybody here believes, that a big name and a high price is all what counts, or?
Don't apologize first and then write something ignorant.

I don't know Darius (personally) but all it took was two google searches to see that he is using dual B&W subwoofers. These can be seen on his website.

In a high end build you are likely to see high end names. Get over it.
Old 25th May 2009
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Northward View Post
<SNIP>Furthermore, FTBs have a very carefully studied geometry (shaped room, RFZ etc) and the front wall's partially reflective surface has a limited, calculated area compared to the rest of the studio. The design includes full Early Reflections (ER) and speaker management.<SNIP>
Hi Thomas,

I was just wondering something regarding the FTB room design. Is it more likely to be used in mastering rooms as opposed to tracking/mix rooms? I'm sure the answer will be that in both it is appropriate but I haven't seen any rooms comparable or at least as recognizable as Darius' room.

I'm not going to ask you why a FTB design was used but I am wondering what you think the biggest flaw/flaws is/are of (a) LEDE room(s).

On a side note:
I asked Darius what kind of fabric (I'm not asking which brand, $ etc. Just which material) was used in his room. He diverted me towards you as you most likely chose the fabric. I recently found a nice cotton fabric in the exact color I was looking for. It's slightly thicker than I think is 'perfect' but I can blow through it (with some force. It's not as easy as let's say burlap). I've been looking for the right color/fabric for ages and would love to be able to settle on the one I found.
Could you share the type of fabric you used for his room? If not. I understand

Thanks.
Old 25th May 2009
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius van H View Post
The fabric was done by a company from Brussels - I think they're called Pardaens.....they don't have a website - they're upholsterers that usually do furniture. It took them four and a half long days and these guys work hard!

Contact Thomas at Northward Acoustics for more info.

The fabric itself came from Ross in the UK.

Good luck! ................ D
Three posts in a row? Geez HoH, get a life.
I know I know.

Hi Darius,

I haven't thanked you for your response yet. So thanks.

You've been in the new room for a while now.. I know you must love it to death but how has your work been lately? More fun than ever?
Are clients digging the sh*t of out it?

I'm sure I'm not the only one to wonder how it is all working out for you.

Old 25th May 2009
  #390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookedOnHardware View Post
I was just wondering something regarding the FTB room design. Is it more likely to be used in mastering rooms as opposed to tracking/mix rooms? I'm sure the answer will be that in both it is appropriate but I haven't seen any rooms comparable or at least as recognizable as Darius' room.
"In both it is appropriate"

It's a new approach to design, although based on proven concepts. So there aren't so many around yet. Since it's very difficult to upgrade older designs to FTB scheme, you need a "ground-up" build. And those don't show up every week...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookedOnHardware View Post
I'm not going to ask you why a FTB design was used but I am wondering what you think the biggest flaw/flaws is/are of (a) LEDE room(s).
I work with FTBs as often as possible because afaic I believe they are the best compromise. And today, CAD giving your more overall control on the design, it allows you to really fine tune the room - which is best seen as an organic system, with everything playing a precise role and in it's right place.

Honestly, I never really liked LEDE rooms. In real life I think the live end (back of room, post Haas effect) creates more problems than was first thought on paper. Even when heavily diffused. I find it's residual interactions with the rest of the room to be enough of a problem that I avoid these designs alltogether. Often I feel the LF response isn't tight/defined enough too.

Though there are LEDE rooms around that are considered very good rooms, and engineers love them. Bear in mind there is of course a question of personal taste involved here: I don't like how they sound, and that is subjective.

One last thing: beware when visiting a "LEDE" room, as a lot of them that claim to be LEDE aren't properly implemented. And those are pretty bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookedOnHardware View Post
On a side note:
I asked Darius what kind of fabric (I'm not asking which brand, $ etc. Just which material) was used in his room. He diverted me towards you as you most likely chose the fabric. I recently found a nice cotton fabric in the exact color I was looking for. It's slightly thicker than I think is 'perfect' but I can blow through it (with some force. It's not as easy as let's say burlap). I've been looking for the right color/fabric for ages and would love to be able to settle on the one I found.
Could you share the type of fabric you used for his room?
As long as it's not too thick - and has a decent permeability, you're good to go. I systematically use furniture grade (high-end) fabric because it will resist install, years of use & shoulder rubbing, is easy to clean and... is fire rated. The latter being very important. This type of fabric is quite thicker compared to other "normal" types.

Be sure to use a proper sub-layer though (Dacron in our case, see picture)
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Amsterdam Mastering - construction thread-dacron.jpg  
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