The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
need help , building a project studio
Old 20th January 2008
  #1
Lives for gear
 

need help , building a project studio

Hi everybody

I was reading this forum for a long time and have to say its really a great forum here . Its obviously that some of you guys are real pros at studio acoustics and building .
I am about to start building my studio .Its the basement of an old house and i will post you a rough plan picture of it.

I would like to have :

-Control room
-Drum room
-Live room for rehearsals and recording the whole band or couple of instruments together
-one room for vocals or double bass ,sax etc

so its 2 rooms for drums and whatever instrument ( probably the double bass most of the time) one larger room for the whole band and one control room ....

The whole basement is about 100 m2 and the ceiling is low ,around 2,5 m H but with a lot of concrete ceiling holder ( i dont know the name for it in english) which are 40 cm so it makes the ceiling even lower ....

Do you have any ideas how to place the control ,drum room etc ? any tips are welcome .
Thank you very much for your help
Old 20th January 2008
  #2
Lives for gear
 

here is the plan
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-room-1.jpg  
Old 20th January 2008
  #3
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

If the booths are large enough in this solution, you could have the rooms around your CR allowing eye contact with everyone.
The green stuff (soundlock and machine room) is what I thought you might find useful. Leaving these out will make your main room somewhat bigger and maybe more interesting acoustically.

Roof-top windows (Dachfenster) can be a nuisance when it's raining. Any solution for that?
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-room1_pk.jpg  
Old 20th January 2008
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Hey ,thanks Peter , this is not bad at all .
I dont know if you checked the dimensions but the space u planed for drum and vocal room is enough just for one room maybe drums . I want to make nice sounding little bigger rooms for drums and second instrument . Visual contact between the rooms and the main room is really important here ...I will probably leave out machine and PC room ....
Thanks one more time man !!!!
Old 20th January 2008
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Anybody else ?
Old 21st January 2008
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass man View Post
Anybody else ?

I just had a shot at a possible strategy.

There where a few things I noticed from a practical point of view that I added in here, but if you want a very large main room, this sketch is probably not really what you are looking for.




Cheers,
JFN
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-room2.jpg  
Old 21st January 2008
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Thanks man , some good ideas here


For the music i am going to record there its important :

- Visual contact between musicians
- bigger drums ,vocal booth and live room

Tha control room dont have to be too large as far as it sounds ok for mixing and tracking Medium small is OK for me .

So live playing - recording (jazz bands and similar) is the goal ...

Thanks for your tip man ,this forum is really great .

Nice day
Old 21st January 2008
  #8
Lives for gear
 
gullfo's Avatar
 

its a small space with a low ceiling. maybe consider another space? if not here's an idea on layout which give you enough booth and about as much live room as you're likely to have.

Old 21st January 2008
  #9
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo View Post
its a small space with a low ceiling. maybe consider another space? if not here's an idea on layout which give you enough booth and about as much live room as you're likely to have.

Wow, nice work there!

Cheers,
JFN
Old 21st January 2008
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gullfo View Post
its a small space with a low ceiling. maybe consider another space? if not here's an idea on layout which give you enough booth and about as much live room as you're likely to have.

I cant see the picture did you post any ?
Old 21st January 2008
  #11
Lives for gear
 

I see it now .
Wou man this looks GREAT !!!!
I think i am going to use this one , this is exactly what i need thank you man ?

Are you doing this for money i mean is this your job ?


can you tell me one more thing :

Feet2 is how much in m2 ?

1m2 is like 3 feet2 right ?

You sad the place is too small and its 100 m2 ( its actually pretty big ) or am i missing something ? The ceiling is low thats right . Do you think it can sound OK with low ceiling or should i forget about it ? Should i treat the ceiling in the specific way since its so low ?

Thank you guys very much for your help
If i can do something for you (as a bass player or whatever) you are welcome !!!!
Old 21st January 2008
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Gullfo really cool design ,cant stop looking at it !!

Couple of more questions :

1.What should be on the places with yellow dot ,couch and eff.rack or ?

2.Places with red dots are meant to be bass traps right ?

3. Should i make bass traps on the places with blue dot too ?

Thanks
Old 21st January 2008
  #13
Lives for gear
 

here is it
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-studio-4.jpg  
Old 21st January 2008
  #14
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

That one looks great. Though the drum and iso booths at the right aren't bigger than in my first suggestion. The pillar/chimney/whatever is a bit of a problem, as it will always be right in the middle of any larger booth you might make there.
Low ceilings need LOTS of absorption, you basically want to eliminate ceiling reflexions as much as possible in such a low room. Except if you want the record to sound like in a low-ceiling room

1m is about 3ft, so 1sq.m = 1m*1m = 3ft*3ft = 9 sq.ft.
Old 21st January 2008
  #15
Lives for gear
 
gullfo's Avatar
 

the floor area is somewhat OK in size but a 2.5m ceiling with 40cm joists means the ceiling is effectively 2.1m or about 6' 9" which is very low... if you have someone who is over 6' tall, they're going to feel very claustrophobic...

one of the most important considerations in studio design is the space in which you are building it.. location, location, location, and ceiling height. obviously if this is the only space you have to work with and you are set and committed, then you can pull it off but it will be tight.

yeah design is what i do and if you want to contact me and discuss then check my contact info. imho, if you're going to spend a lot of money making a really nice studio, find a room conducive to making it a proper one...

there would actually be a bunch of treatments all around in the CR, live rooms, booths etc to make the space sound good and allow you flexibility in the room responses depending on your needs (more or less reverberation etc).
Old 23rd January 2008
  #16
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

Glen is a SUPERB designer who is also very genrous with his time and designs for you

he helped me alot when i was spec'ing a possible studio build at home and while i had to put that on the back burner for a while he sure gave me some nice ideas and plans and drawings
Old 25th January 2008
  #17
Lives for gear
 

So ,

I went yesterday to see the space one more time and to get the right measures and it seems like the first plan wasnt really right .There is a huge very low joist in the middle of the room (on the ceiling ) which is 214 cm high( low) and there is pillar/chimney/whatever 50cmx50cm in the ****ing middle of the room right in the center . So it seems like the wonderful plan that Glenn(gullfo) made for me wont work now .....

Anyway here is the right plan of the space .........
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-podrum-001.jpg  
Old 25th January 2008
  #18
Gear Nut
 
The Kamillion's Avatar
 

Hey dude, i know u probably don't want to hear this...but the ceiling is too low for drums. I was thinking that reading thru the post BEFORE you found out about the middle joist. that makes it impossible imo. no amount of room treatment can make up for a 6 foot ceiling. if you just want to do a booth and a control room fine. u can use plug ins for piano, they don't sound as good i know but...the drums is the real issue.

your only hope is a roland v drum kit with really realy good outboard reverb.
Old 26th January 2008
  #19
Lives for gear
 

I know what you talking about but it seems like this is the only place i can get/afford so i have to work with what i have and get the best results out of it .....
Here is one option that partly reduce this funny middle joist into the wall .
I get with this plan 2 booths ,small live room , bigger live room and small control room ...
What do you think ? Glennnn HELPPPP please
Old 26th January 2008
  #20
Lives for gear
 

i dont know what went wrong with the file .... Here is one more time ...
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-st.jpg  
Old 27th January 2008
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Hi people

What do you think about this ?
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-slika-1.jpg  
Old 28th January 2008
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Nobody ?!?!?
Old 28th January 2008
  #23
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

If you feel comfortable with a control room that small (which might work well if you REALLY control your acoustics well), that could work out quite nice. Way easier with that one pillar than with the two smaller ones of the previous sketch.
However, you really really need to get rid of as much ceiling reflexion as possible. The ceiling is like a very close wall, and that will always sound like a small bedroom. You might think about PZM overheads at the ceiling too, if there's a standard drum setup.
The acoustic treatment you need here will not be cheap. Might be more expensive in the end than choosing a higher room.
Old 28th January 2008
  #24
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch View Post
If you feel comfortable with a control room that small (which might work well if you REALLY control your acoustics well), that could work out quite nice. Way easier with that one pillar than with the two smaller ones of the previous sketch.
However, you really really need to get rid of as much ceiling reflexion as possible. The ceiling is like a very close wall, and that will always sound like a small bedroom. You might think about PZM overheads at the ceiling too, if there's a standard drum setup.
The acoustic treatment you need here will not be cheap. Might be more expensive in the end than choosing a higher room.
I know what you are saying ...
I plan to treat all the rooms really well so i hope the control room could work pretty OK . The ceiling is 255cm high right now but the joist in the middle is very low so i have to make a wall of it to keep the room hight as high as possible thats how i came to this layout.
I have this idea about the ceiling which is to install 10 or 20 cm rock wool or mineral wool on the ceiling between the small joists and cover it with the fabric . In that case ill end up with 230 cm high ceiling which is treated and hopefully not over treated . I might even wrap the rock wool in some plastic before i put fabric just to keep so mid highs freq..... And of course a lot of self made bass traps all around . What do you think about this way of treating the low ceiling ??? And yes there are two pillars just the big one is on another place (comparing to the first sketch)
BTW what is PZM overheads ?

Thanks
Old 29th January 2008
  #25
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

If I have understood the acoustics people on here correclty, like Glenn Kuras or Ethan Winer, a ceiling this low can't actually be over-treated. I was thinking what would happen if the two booths and the CR swapped places, so the booths have visual contact to both bigger rooms.
PZM means pressure zone mic: a mic mounted in a large surface, which has, amongst a few other things, the nice side effect of it not being hit by any reflexions off this surface. So you basically eliminate the ceiling reflexion on your overheads, if you mount them directly to the ceiling. But, of course, their position is fixed once you've installed them.
Actually, PZM is a trademark of some manufacturer, others call their mics BLM (Schoeps: Boundary Layer mic) or GFM (Neumann: Grenzflächenmikrofon - german). Google will tell you more...
Old 29th January 2008
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Yes changing places of booths and control room is maybe not a bad idea ...
Old 1st February 2008
  #27
Lives for gear
 

Here is another plan its similar to the first one with some little changes made ...
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-plan-2.jpg  
Old 2nd February 2008
  #28
Lives for gear
 
pkautzsch's Avatar
 

Your 2nd live room isn't much bigger than the booths...you might want to drop the booth at the right.
The window over the wall between live 2 and booth on the left might become a problem.
Old 2nd February 2008
  #29
Lives for gear
 

you are right about the boot on the right ,i am just trying to kill the middle joist which is the lowest one and make a wall out of it so i can keep as much height of the room as possible ... I need to isolate the ceiling ,its a concrete ceiling so i think to put 10 cm rock wool and then 2 layers of dry wall ,after that 5 or 7 cm rock wool and fabric....
Its getting heavy i think i need a professional here ....
Old 6th February 2008
  #30
Lives for gear
 

So ,the place is mine now the show begins !!!

I would like to thank you all for your help on this forum and please dont stop with your great tips - i need`em all !

Here some Photos .

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
need help , building a project studio-1.jpg   need help , building a project studio-2.jpg   need help , building a project studio-3.jpg   need help , building a project studio-4.jpg   need help , building a project studio-6.jpg  

Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump