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June Audio Recording Studios - A Wes Lachot studio in Provo, Utah Consoles
Old 14th January 2019
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaudio View Post
deedeeyeah, those are great ideas. unfortunately we are unable to access the area up there easily due to building codes and the space needed for a proper staircase. Beyond that isolating the space up there from the studio would just be so expensive that it wouldn't be something we could do. We will of course be wiring for network and anything else that our wiring designer Thom Canova is planning on!
too bad... - put in a window nevertheless and make it a small but cool vip lounge :-)

awesome build - keep us posted and all the best for any further activities!
Old 16th January 2019
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
It's because without a ceiling there is no sense of scale. Or rather, there is an incorrect sense of scale. We judge the size of rooms by (subconciously) comparing the width to the length to the height, and getting a general sense of how each dimension compares to the other two, and more importantly how the width and the length each compare to the height. The height is the most important of the three, because it's easiest to judge, by comparing it against the height of a person (hence the term "human scale"). So a typical room with, say, a 9 foot ceiling we see as being about 1 1/2 times the height of a person. From there, it's easy to judge how the room's other two dimensions compare to human beings, which is the only thing that really matters.

But if the ceiling height is the sky, then you're comparing the width and the height to infinity, and when you do that, infinity always wins, and any width and length dimensions will look tiny. Once the height comes down from infinity to 18 ft., that large tracking room will look pretty darn big. Following this logic, I could have made it seem even bigger by bringing the height down to 12 ft., but then it wouldn't sound as good.

So it's all a matter of ratios. And of course the same is true from a sound standpoint--it's not the absolute dimensions that are most important, but the ratios of each dimension to the other dimensions, if you want a musical sounding room with even bass response.

Wes
Wes,

How do determine your monitor mounting height given the angled soffits? Does this determine your angle for the speaker soffit wall or is it the RFZ that determines the angle and you adjust monitor height based on that?
-Mark
Old 16th January 2019
  #93
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msenger69 View Post
Wes,

How do determine your monitor mounting height given the angled soffits? Does this determine your angle for the speaker soffit wall or is it the RFZ that determines the angle and you adjust monitor height based on that?
-Mark
The height of the monitor's acoustic center, if the walls were perpendicular to the floor, would be about 2" above ear height, or about 50". However, we angle the walls just slightly, so that they are not perpendicular to the floor, for two reasons. One is to minimize acoustic interactions with the console. The other is to keep the people in the rear of the control room on axis with the acoustic center, since a person's ears when sitting on a sofa are closer to the floor than they are when that same person is sitting at the console. This requires raising up the monitors about 8-10" in order to keep the engineer's ears exactly on axis. This is computed using the Pythagorean Theorem.
Old 17th January 2019
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
The height of the monitor's acoustic center, if the walls were perpendicular to the floor, would be about 2" above ear height, or about 50". However, we angle the walls just slightly, so that they are not perpendicular to the floor, for two reasons. One is to minimize acoustic interactions with the console. The other is to keep the people in the rear of the control room on axis with the acoustic center, since a person's ears when sitting on a sofa are closer to the floor than they are when that same person is sitting at the console. This requires raising up the monitors about 8-10" in order to keep the engineer's ears exactly on axis. This is computed using the Pythagorean Theorem.
Wes,

Thanks so much! If I could pick your brain on one other technique? I’ve read your articles regarding monitoring/engineer position, ratios, sound waves in CR and understand about dealing with 3/4 wave at the monitoring position. I was hoping you might comment on how you decide on final location of monitoring position and do the CR nodes/antinodes after you’ve chosen the appropriate room ratio ultimately determine where you put the engineer? (i.e., you avoid nodes, prefer antinodes, somewhere in between or is it something else?). Thank you again for sharing your wisdom!
-Mark
Old 17th January 2019
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msenger69 View Post
Wes,

Thanks so much! If I could pick your brain on one other technique? I’ve read your articles regarding monitoring/engineer position, ratios, sound waves in CR and understand about dealing with 3/4 wave at the monitoring position. I was hoping you might comment on how you decide on final location of monitoring position and do the CR nodes/antinodes after you’ve chosen the appropriate room ratio ultimately determine where you put the engineer? (i.e., you avoid nodes, prefer antinodes, somewhere in between or is it something else?). Thank you again for sharing your wisdom!
-Mark
The final location of the monitoring position is determined by several (sometimes competing) factors. It has to be a percentage of the room, front-to-back, where you are missing all of the nodes for the first 6 or 8 harmonics of the room's fundamental front-to-back frequency. Plus, it has to be in a very precise relationship to the listening triangle.

The nodes have to be avoided at all costs, even if it means landing on an antinode for another harmonic. Ideally, of course, you'd like to be exactly between a node and and antinode, but that is not mathematically possible for all of the harmonics of the room modes. So we worry more about the nodes, since they can result in nulls of 50 dB, and worry less about the antinodes, since the 6dB boosts they cause is much more linear than those 50 dB nulls. You have to choose your battles.

-Wes

Last edited by Wes Lachot; 18th January 2019 at 04:59 AM.. Reason: spelling
Old 21st January 2019
  #96
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#18

Busy week and weekend in the studio, but things continued out back in the new space. Most of the progression this week was in electrical, but there a lot of leftover framing was done, as well as many meetings regarding hvac and sheetrock.



The south side wall of tracking room 1 was sheeted which does even more to show the size of rooms and how things will feel. In the center you can see the window into the control room.



Looking out of control room 1, the sheeting helps show off just how large the windows will be and how great the view of the tracking room will be.



The electricians made some headway this week. There was some discussion as to how to mount the electrical boxes and keep them isolated from the framed walls but sitting in the sheetrock and other acoustic materials which will be mounted. The solution was to use some isolation material between the mounting hardware for the electrical and the framing.



Managed to get my son involved building a box for our new fire pit.
Old 21st January 2019
  #97
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That's a big room! Nice to finally see some walls and context, that has to be a good feeling!
Old 31st January 2019
  #98
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#19

I’ve been giving a lot of tours of the construction site lately. Without fail everyone asks when we expect to be finished and ready to move in. The truth is I have no idea. At one point I was hoping it would be March, now I’m hoping it’s May, but really, no idea. Honestly, for now as long as people continue to show up and work every day I’m happy.



Sheetrock began in the hallway. 2 layers of 5/8’ with staggered seems in the hallway. Both layers were taped and mudded.





HVAC work began with some duct work in the lobby. Some careful planning allowed for the ducts to live in the trusses and buy us some much appreciated ceiling height.



Some of the Samsung mini split / heat pump units.



The rails for hanging the hvac units.



All of the electrical boxes are wrapped with putty packs to help with the integrity of the sound envelope.



I know it’s kind of dumb but when these isomax clips showed up I was genuinely excited.



The clips are screwed into the studs and then the hat channel hangs in the clips. The rubber material helps isolate the sheetrock from the studs and drops the sound transmission through the walls significantly.





Iso clips and channel hung in control room 1.



Iso clips and channel hung in tracking room 1.
Old 13th February 2019
  #99
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#20

There has been a lot going on over the past couple weeks, but most of it doesn’t make for great photos so Ive been a bit quiet. Problem is, if I don’t keep updating this Ill get too lazy and drop it forever (plus my dad keeps asking me for an update), so here is some of what has been going on:



We finally got our new main entrance. The lobby will be behind the glass and on this side will be a covered patio with some places to sit.



The view from in the lobby, the whole front will be glass which gives a really great view of the outhouse.



There will be a canopy over the door and a fence basically right where I’m standing that will help provide some privacy.



All four of the mini-split air handlers for the studio spaces are hung in the hallway now.



The air handlers are hung on rubber isolators and rubber pads at the end of the all-thread shafts.



Today they started on the ductwork.



Building the ducts. They are oversized and lined with fiberglass insulation.



The steel for our instrument gallery/storage room showed up today. This wasn’t originally in the plans, the room was, but not the layout and the steel, but our contractor found us some savings and with it we will finish the room. The ceilings are so high that in order to take advantage of the space we are building a mezzanine. Here you can see the stairs and the deck material.



Laying out the steel structure.



The steel beams in place - the back of the room will be the largest part of the mezzanine, with a catwalk going down the left side. The stairs will sit on the right side agains the wall.



In the past few weeks I also made the mistake of learning about the new API 2448. We currently have a 32 channel API 1608 and the plan has been to put that in the new studio 1. We typically use half our console for mic lines / front end and half for pro tools returns. The new 2448 is an inline design, meaning it has 2 input paths per channel, so we could have pro tools outputs directly above mic lines and a 32 channel console would actually yield us an additional 16 mic lines to use and an additional 16 line inputs all at the same time. So, now I’m plotting and scheming for ways to save on other equipment, current equipment we could sell and places in the construction budget where we might still find some savings. Of course the lead time on one of these consoles from API is 3-4 months, so if we want a console when the doors open we need to get on the list! More info on this to come, but if anyone is looking to buy an excellent condition, practically new API 1608 let me know!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #100
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#21

Two highlights from this last week -

1) while showing a good friend, composer & longtime collaborator the studio build, he said “scott, you’re the only person i know who is bullish on the music industry.”

2) mid-mixing session for a great artist we took a quick tour of the space and she said something to the effect of “i’m excited that we will get to have something like this in Provo, Utah”

Honestly, i don’t know how I feel about the music industry as a whole, but I know that there is a lot of great music being made here in Utah and we are lucky to get to be a part of it. We have remained busy for a long time now and while this really is a crazy business move, I’m really happy to be able to do what I can to provide this great music scene with such a place. We are lucky to have Wes Lachot, Tony Brett and Thom Canova on board and frankly doing us such a favor by working long and hard on a project with some pretty big budget/time constraints. They are working closely with our great contractors at Zadok Construction (Nick and Jared) to build a pretty amazing studio space.

…and you should really check out some of the great music coming out of Utah:

THE NATIONAL PARKS

Goldmyth

Sego Sucks — out April 5

http://www.theholleringpines.com

http://www.tmtfmusic.com

https://nymph-music.bandcamp.com/releases

http://roseburgband.com/

These are just the artists we’ve worked with in the past month.



The 2nd level of the instrument storage room is nearly done, just need the railing now.



Looking into the hallway from the 2nd level. Glass sliding barn doors will hang in the opening.






Spray foam insulation in the lobby where we didn’t want to lose the space that a traditional framed wall would eat up.






More work was done on the HVAC system until about mid-week when the guys came down with a pretty bad flu that is going around. Hopefully we will see some real progress next week.



In front of the lobby we got the missing piece of steel for the canopy.



The last few weeks have been primarily about electrical. I’m very impressed with the electricians and their attention to detail. At this point they are a few days away from having all of the rough electrical finished.



This is the transformer that will clean up the power for the studios. This box is so insanely heavy that none of us could even get a corner of it off the ground, yet it needed to be hung up to be put to use.



Chains and pulleys got the transformer hung and ready to be hooked up.



The electricians take great care with their installation. Here he is precisely bending conduit that will be hidden behind sheetrock and never seen again.






This small room has so much electrical equipment in it. On the left is the panel for the “dirty” power of the new building (lights, hvac), on the right is the new panel for the house.



The transformer is hung on the left, in the middle is a disconnect and a surge protector, on the right is the panel for the clean power to the studios.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #101
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Quint's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaudio View Post

I know it’s kind of dumb but when these isomax clips showed up I was genuinely excited.



The clips are screwed into the studs and then the hat channel hangs in the clips. The rubber material helps isolate the sheetrock from the studs and drops the sound transmission through the walls significantly.





Iso clips and channel hung in control room 1.



Iso clips and channel hung in tracking room 1.
Why are these Iso Clips necessary? From what I could tell, the stud walls are already not touching the cinder block walls, so what are the Iso Clips isolating?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #102
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I believe on those outside walls we are just looking for maximum isolation from cars, etc outside, although Wes will hopefully chime in with the actual answer!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaudio View Post
I believe on those outside walls we are just looking for maximum isolation from cars, etc outside, although Wes will hopefully chime in with the actual answer!
Wes is more knowledgeable about this stuff than I, but it would seem to me that, if you're already dealing with an isolated assembly (via the offset stud wall), the iso clips wouldn't net you any additional isolation. But maybe the studs have some sort of hard connection with the outer shell of the building that I can't see?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #104
Gear Nut
 

I'm assuming the studs are less perfectly isolated from the slab.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaudio View Post
I believe on those outside walls we are just looking for maximum isolation from cars, etc outside, although Wes will hopefully chime in with the actual answer!
any figures which you are trying to achieve in the main room and control room?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #106
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juneaudio View Post
I believe on those outside walls we are just looking for maximum isolation from cars, etc outside, although Wes will hopefully chime in with the actual answer!
You do pick up a few dB of isolation, since there is a difference between floating and not floating on the clips, period. But there's another big reason we use the clips, and that's for the acoustical performance of the room itself. Large wall surfaces can act as giant basstraps, catching frequencies below 60 Hz that are hard to catch in other ways, and it all happens in so little space (as opposed to deep basstraps).

It works because the wall is allowed to wiggle in a way that a not-floated wall cannot. It's based on this principle:

When sound waves struck a room boundary (wall), three things can happen.
1) Sounds above the wall's resonant frequency bounce back into the room, creating standing waves.
2) Sounds below the wall's resonant frequency travel through the wall, potentially bothering the neighbors.
3) Sounds at the resonant frequency are absorbed into the wall, creating a tiny amount of heat, and neither create standing waves nor bother the neighbors.

Notice how number 3 is the only one that doesn't suck? Well, the IsoMax clips broaden the wall's resonant frequency Q in a very attractive way, making the wall into a giant basstrap. This is one of our secret weapons. Oops--I just divulged it.

-Wes
Old 3 weeks ago
  #107
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
any figures which you are trying to achieve in the main room and control room?
NC20
Old 3 weeks ago
  #108
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
You do pick up a few dB of isolation, since there is a difference between floating and not floating on the clips, period. But there's another big reason we use the clips, and that's for the acoustical performance of the room itself. Large wall surfaces can act as giant basstraps, catching frequencies below 60 Hz that are hard to catch in other ways, and it all happens in so little space (as opposed to deep basstraps).

It works because the wall is allowed to wiggle in a way that a not-floated wall cannot. It's based on this principle:

When sound waves struck a room boundary (wall), three things can happen.
1) Sounds above the wall's resonant frequency bounce back into the room, creating standing waves.
2) Sounds below the wall's resonant frequency travel through the wall, potentially bothering the neighbors.
3) Sounds at the resonant frequency are absorbed into the wall, creating a tiny amount of heat, and neither create standing waves nor bother the neighbors.

Notice how number 3 is the only one that doesn't suck? Well, the IsoMax clips broaden the wall's resonant frequency Q in a very attractive way, making the wall into a giant basstrap. This is one of our secret weapons. Oops--I just divulged it.

-Wes
How does using 2 or 3 layers of 5/8” alter the frequency, performance, etc.. of said “bass trap”?
-Mark
Old 3 weeks ago
  #109
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I’m thinking more mass would lower the resonant frequency of the assembly and this will absorb some of those lower frequencies and turn that energy into small amounts of heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msenger69 View Post
How does using 2 or 3 layers of 5/8” alter the frequency, performance, etc.. of said “bass trap”?
-Mark
Old 2 weeks ago
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glamrock80 View Post
I’m thinking more mass would lower the resonant frequency of the assembly and this will absorb some of those lower frequencies and turn that energy into small amounts of heat.
+1

Just checking these out. It looks like the company calls out minimum of one clip every 48 inches and channels every 24 with a max load of 60lbs per clip. So you can't do any less than that.

Doing a little math here and it looks like considering that the number of clips has to stay constant, you would probably want to use 3 layers of 5/8 to tune it to the lowest frequency. It looks like actually more mass than 3 layers of 5/8 would be required to load it all the way close to 60lb per clip.

It would be interesting if Kinetics would publish the newton force of the spring action of the clip so we could know what frequency it's tuned to. I'm curious if it would be the same in ceiling and wall applications.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #111
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juneaudio's Avatar
#22

Last week was filled with more rough electrical, hvac, insulation and network/security wiring. We passed our ‘power to panel’ inspection so we are just a few days away from having power out in the new space and being able to swap the house power over to the new distribution panel.

I spent a fair amount of time this week thinking about and discussing colors and finishes with Wes. I tend to be pretty particular with color and I’m really worried about getting it wrong, especially considering that what you see in the control rooms will be almost entirely wood or fabric, and fabric panels are a lot harder to change than paint. Wes has so much experience designing studios and refining things to make these very odd shaped spaces feel natural and normal and it’s easy to just want to throw colors all over without thinking through just how that will feel when you are in the studio day after day. I think at this point we are pretty close to having things pinned down and with no time to spare, Tony Brett is diving into building our acoustic panels.

Tomorrow Thom Canova will arrive to spend a week doing the rough/pre-wiring for the lines that go in the walls. After that insulation in the walls can begin and then straight into sheetrock.



This panel on the side of the house is the main disconnect between the transformer out front and the inside panels.



This is the main distribution panel inside. Power comes in the bottom and then is split via the three breakers to the house, the dirty power for the new space and the clean power for the new space.



The main distribution panel on the right, the new panel for the house in the center and the dirty power for the new space on the left.



This is the clean power panel for all the outlets in the new studios. This is fed from the isolation transformer that was hung up last week.




This small mechanical room is getting very full now that the panes are all in place as well as the hvac unit for the lobby and instrument gallery.



Insulation of the exterior walls continued this week, this is above studio 2.



Insulation along the outer wall of control room 1.



Ductwork continues in the center hallway.



Penetrations have been cut into the studios. At the top of the frame you can see the duct with a rubber vibration isolator. This will help stop vibrations in the units from reaching the ductwork.



Here the duct penetrates the wall above studio 2. Another set of rubber vibration isolators will be just inside the walls to further quiet any noise from the hvac.



Our canopy out front was framed up this week as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #112
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#23

Things are creeping along, there is still so much to do, and so much that can be done but we still have days where only one sub or even none show up. Our contractor is frustrated and working hard to get them out but there is so much building going on that it makes it hard to keep subs on site.



Fedex showed up with a ton of cable in anticipation of Canova Audio arriving from North Carolina. The Fedex guy was all put out that there was so much and insisted that we pause our session and all come out and help unload the truck. That seems weird to me, isn’t that his job?



Thom Conova and Roger Gupton arrived on Monday for 9 days of mounting tie line boxes and running cable.



You can see the black tie line box mounted in Iso Booth 1 in Studio 1 and the silver tie line box mounted on the wall of the live room. In addition to mic lines and many cat 6 lines there will be lines from the live room to the booths for guitar or speaker leads.



Cat6, quad and eight pair mic line cable.



cat 6 being pulled into the pipes in the trough



Roger tying the lines up. These guys do very tight, very clean work.



Cat 6 and mic lines run into Iso Booth 3 in Studio 1.



Thom cutting in a tie line box.



Provo City Power came out and got the new power service up and running. We are still on temporary power for the time being, but we have power into the new space awaiting the electricians finishing off the rough electrical.



The large copper cables coming up out of the ground are from the ground rods and the ufer in the foundation. These are tied to the panels through the large copper plate.



Penetrations were put into the roof for the HVAC lines and venting.





Just above the lift you can see the steam humidifier that is being installed in order to raise the humidity of the instrument gallery.



Hvac duct in the instrument gallery.



The framing in the center of the photo is underneath what used to be the ceiling of the house porch. The old bead board had to be ripped out in order to get the electrical re-routed from the old panel to the new.



9 huge crates showed up with the Overly acoustic doors. The frames will be installed starting this week.



We removed the temporary wall that separated the future lounge / kitchen which is in the rear of the house from the hallway of the new space. It was exciting to get a sense for how these two spaces will work together.



Looking out of the lounge into the new hallway.


Old 1 week ago
  #113
Gear Nut
 

Looks great! Everyone I know in Utah trying to build commercial and residential is having the same problem with subs. The airport and the new Facebook data center are really taxing the available help.
Old 1 week ago
  #114
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dcwave's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shaka View Post
Looks great! Everyone I know in Utah trying to build commercial and residential is having the same problem with subs. The airport and the new Facebook data center are really taxing the available help.
Yah - Platinum sports around the corner from June on Center is still waiting on the subs for the electrical and to finish their venue behind the store - not enough skilled labor for the number of projects.
Old 4 days ago
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
+1

Just checking these out. It looks like the company calls out minimum of one clip every 48 inches and channels every 24 with a max load of 60lbs per clip. So you can't do any less than that.

Doing a little math here and it looks like considering that the number of clips has to stay constant, you would probably want to use 3 layers of 5/8 to tune it to the lowest frequency. It looks like actually more mass than 3 layers of 5/8 would be required to load it all the way close to 60lb per clip.

It would be interesting if Kinetics would publish the newton force of the spring action of the clip so we could know what frequency it's tuned to. I'm curious if it would be the same in ceiling and wall applications.
Would you mind sharing equations you’re using? I’ve got a ballpark with MSM, but how do you figure in IsoMax clips? Does it dampen the vibrations or is it also considered a spring in the equation?
Old 4 days ago
  #116
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#24

Preliminary wiring (electrical, audio, network/security) is finished and we are now heading into weeks (months?) of sheetrock work. In most cases walls have 3 layers of taped and mudded 5/8” sheetrock per side, although some walls only get two layers. Regardless it will take a while to complete.

We remain busy in the “house” studio although with the temporary wall out back removed the construction noise is encroaching.

I’ve begun to lose sleep due to worry about how we are going to afford to keep the doors open, but at this point, what can you do but move forward?



This is looking down in the space between the front wall of control room 2 and the tracking room wall. The black cable comes from the trough under the console through the pipe and then up into the walls to connect to the mic / tie line boxes throughout this studio space. The red and black lines coming from the panel on the left are instrument and speaker level lines that tie into a box in the control room.



The Overly door frames arriving.



Moving the studio 1 iso booth door frames into place.



Studio 1 iso booths with door frames.



The door into studio 2.



My son has been working on a project in his woods class for the studio. We ordered a huge slap of walnut and a bunch of epoxy and he has been constructing this table for our instrument gallery room. There is still a lot of planing and sanding to be done but it’s going to look great.



This is upstairs in the instrument gallery. The insulation company was set to arrive on Thursday so Wednesday afternoon Jared (superintendent) and I did a bunch of extra blocking to give a sturdy backing to the guitar hangers for the room.



This is the idea, although we won’t have quite such an amazing collection as what you see here.



Thursday evening the insulators had already finished half of the studio space, the upstairs is where all the guitars will hang, under the mezzanine will be drums and amplifiers.



Tracking room 1 looking back to control room 1. The doorways into the machine room (right) and the sound lock (left) were framed incorrectly so the door frames are hanging out waiting for a fix.



Just getting the insulation in place suddenly defined the rooms so much more. It is now easier to get a sense for how the different spaces feel. This is looking out of iso booth 1 in studio 1.



Looking into iso booths 2 and 3 from iso booth 1.



Control room 2 post-insulation.



Control room 1 post-insulation.
Old 4 days ago
  #117
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Lachot View Post
... There's another big reason we use the clips, and that's for the acoustical performance of the room itself. Large wall surfaces can act as giant basstraps, catching frequencies below 60 Hz that are hard to catch in other ways, and it all happens in so little space (as opposed to deep basstraps).
Would your secret weapon approach still make sense in a much smaller room (10*12')?
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