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I’m having trouble justifying College to myself
Old 4th September 2018
  #91
Math, engineering, medical and law are the reasons you go to college. Basket weaving you can learn on your own. Welders and plumbers make very good $ in 'merica.
Old 4th September 2018
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadAnimemes View Post
I’m 19 going on 20, I’ve been through one semester of college as an open major, taking audio engineering courses and gen-eds. I have 20 credits of gen-eds from high school. Long story short, I didn’t enjoy it and am questioning going back. I don’t want a career in music specifically, just want to do audio for a living. Live events, broadcast, television, recording, whatever. I just love audio. I feel like I’m waisitng my time waiting around at College for another 3-4 years when I could just put myself to work. But even if I do Nail The Mix classes, find an apprenticeship I can work at for little or free, and work a management job to help fund all of it, my parents still think it’s a bad decision not to go to school at the same time.

What are your expiriences with school? Is the debt worth it for someone who wants to work in entertainment?
Perhaps if you could share some thoughts about what you didn't like, others could offer more specific suggestions for you to consider.

It used to be that a student could pay for college with scholarships and a part time job, but the cost of a college education is so high in the USA today that it puts students in the unfortunate position of having to carefully assess the cost against expected career earnings. Otherwise, it is possible to graduate with a degree that won't ever pay back their student loans. I've seen people with $200k student loans and $30k salaries that won't ever be enough to pay back their student loans.

I'd be interested to see how many college admissions counselors and academic advisors would pass a basic personal finance course if they were forced to take one.
Old 4th September 2018
  #93
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Haha censoring again

Gearslutz will never learn people do not like censorship
Old 4th September 2018
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Math, engineering, medical and law are the reasons you go to college.
Those are hardly the only ones...
Old 5th September 2018
  #95
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Math, engineering, medical and law are the reasons you go to college. Basket weaving you can learn on your own. Welders and plumbers make very good $ in 'merica.
These are often referred to as STEM majors: Science, Technology, Engineering, Math. Medical and Law school are graduate programs. The legal profession is over-staffed and there are too many schools, so its like a liberal arts degree, only for three more years after college. Medical schools control the number of graduates, so once one gets in, they have a pretty good shot at a high paying job.

Godwin's Law is simply an observation or theory: As the number of posts in a flame war increase, the probability that Hitler will be mentioned approaches 1.
Old 5th September 2018
  #96
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Just a few thoughts...

Education changes you.

What you do for a living changes you.

Parents tell their kids to go to college and do something normal for a living because that's what you are supposed to do. Those people who are driven and talented just go on with their laser beam focus and achieve success from working hard and having a lot of talent. Steering someone toward the trades who seems disinterested in college is another one of these things parents are supposed to do.

I think at the end of the day it comes down to what do you want your day job to be that supports your art. Because unless you are very lucky, a hard worker and very talented, your day job is likely to be it for you. And, if you succeed, congrats. If not, then dammit man you gave it a try.
Old 5th September 2018
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
These are often referred to as STEM majors: Science, Technology, Engineering, Math. Medical and Law school are graduate programs. The legal profession is over-staffed and there are too many schools, so its like a liberal arts degree, only for three more years after college. Medical schools control the number of graduates, so once one gets in, they have a pretty good shot at a high paying job.

Godwin's Law is simply an observation or theory: As the number of posts in a flame war increase, the probability that Hitler will be mentioned approaches 1.
For it to really pay off, STEM majors have to do what professionals in all other fields do - go to grad school.

That's where your real professional training takes place.

No undergraduate major in the US is particularly good to launch a career from.

It's in grad school where you get the certifications, the actual engagement with companies needing professionals in your field, the network of connections you'll need to start your career hunt after graduating.

True even in the liberal arts; they just haven't managed the pipeline into college professorships in the field as rigorously as, say, medicine, so there's a huge overproduction of graduates from English to History to Philosophy that guarantees low wages for all. Same with law.

If it were all designed like med school, where sure you get $300k or more into debt (in the US), but you're in that rigorously-controlled production pipeline that insures a position and competitive salary when you get out, and then welcome to the guild (AMA) for the rest of your life, there'd be less of a problem.

Old 5th September 2018
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
The legal profession is over-staffed and there are too many schools, so its like a liberal arts degree, only for three more years after college. Medical schools control the number of graduates, so once one gets in, they have a pretty good shot at a high paying job.
Law is not remotely like a liberal arts degree. It's sort of like being hazed.

Otherwise your comments are fairly accurate.
Old 5th September 2018
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
For it to really pay off, STEM majors have to do what professionals in all other fields do - go to grad school.

That's where your real professional training takes place.

No undergraduate major in the US is particularly good to launch a career from.
Sorry, these statements are incorrect. Many "STEM" grads stop at a Bachelors and do very well for themselves, although I do think it's harder to do so now then in years past. Further, professional training mostly takes place on the job (hence the name), or perhaps with certification programs.

Quote:
It's in grad school where you get the certifications, the actual engagement with companies needing professionals in your field, the network of connections you'll need to start your career hunt after graduating.
? In what major? Those I'm familiar with don't give certifications in grad school, simply the grad degree. Certifications are a separate thing. And last I saw/heard (maybe things have changed somehow) you don't get much in the way of networking/connections in grad school. That might vary with diff degrees or fields also, though.
Old 5th September 2018
  #100
f33
Gear Addict
 

everyone should go to college, however its only worth it if you focus and keep in mind you are there to get a job.

not party and dj. which is what i did. which is dumb.
Old 5th September 2018
  #101
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You have plenty of company. Like anything else it's a question of degree. As long as you understand the importance of getting good grades and graduating and take care of that business first, nothing wrong with having fun with whatever spare time you have too. Unfortunately, youth and stupidity go together like peas and carrots.
Old 5th September 2018
  #102
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
For it to really pay off, STEM majors have to do what professionals in all other fields do - go to grad school.

That's where your real professional training takes place.

No undergraduate major in the US is particularly good to launch a career from.
...
That is not my experience, and I have some familiarity with these things.
Old 5th September 2018
  #103
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozraves View Post
Law is not remotely like a liberal arts degree. It's sort of like being hazed.

Otherwise your comments are fairly accurate.
I have some familiarity with this as well and my comments are entirely accurate.

Edit: Any of my comments on these subjects are based on personal knowledge of college graduates in the American Midwest. How things are in other countries, I can't speak to.

Last edited by ponzi; 5th September 2018 at 04:14 PM..
Old 17th September 2018
  #104
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Derp's Avatar
First World Problems: The textbooks for two classes cost $400. That's just for the books and not for the tuition. I know I'm better off than most people trying to get back into school, but for everybody else, those costs are exorbitant.
Old 17th September 2018
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by realtrance View Post
No undergraduate major in the US is particularly good to launch a career from.
A BS in Computer Science from a good school plus a couple summer internships is pretty darn close to a sure thing. No MS or PhD or certifications needed — your GitHub account and a few recommendations will do.

Electrical engineering and certain niche degrees (petroleum engineering, ag science) are also solid.
Old 12th October 2018
  #106
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I'd have to agree here. I'm an electrical engineer and across a half-dozen companies, none of my colleagues or managers have ever held higher than an MS degree, with most of them having BS degrees and lots of experience working in the "real world". Many members of my family have PhDs in various sciences and, while that's probably about the only way to be taken seriously in their fields, I don't see a huge benefit for engineers unless you want to go into pure research (and in that case, you'd probably have studied physics or materials science instead).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yummerz View Post
A BS in Computer Science from a good school plus a couple summer internships is pretty darn close to a sure thing. No MS or PhD or certifications needed — your GitHub account and a few recommendations will do.

Electrical engineering and certain niche degrees (petroleum engineering, ag science) are also solid.
Old 15th October 2018
  #107
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Derp's Avatar
Don't wait too long to go back to school. I'm having a bitch of a time getting back into the rhythm of things.
Old 14th November 2018
  #108
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Derp's Avatar
I've got to say, so far I'm enjoying the way that these courses are stimulating the old brain sacks. It's not like in high school where it's just a matter of memorizing a bunch of useless facts, either. A lot of it involves thinking on your own instead of letting the textbook do the thinking, and I like that. For instance, my U.S. history classes are kicking my ass, but they leave me with a better appreciation for those that came before us and really fought for the most basic of human rights.
Old 15th November 2018
  #109
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It's all about the teacher. I got all that from my HS history classes because I had a great one. He didn't just say "memorize this," we discussed what was going on and why etc.
Old 25th November 2018
  #110
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Plush's Avatar
I was surprised to learn that only about 24% of Americans have a college degree.

So getting one gives you a big advantage.

That said, I'd be the first to suggest that our country needs to invest big dollars in trade schools, vocational schools and craft schools because those jobs are essential and can provide a good living.

But the best living is provided to those who enroll and graduate from higher education, going on from a basic BA degree to obtain advanced degrees.

The OP just needs to identify whether he wants to work in a trade or a profession.

I suggest that the brain development and personality growth that happens during college is totally worth the price of admission, debt or not.
Old 29th November 2018
  #111
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadAnimemes View Post
I don’t want a career in music specifically, just want to do audio for a living. Live events, broadcast, television, recording, whatever. I just love audio.
Have you considered a trade school that offers broadcast or production courses? The programs tend to be shorter than pursuing a BS, cost less than a four-year university and can help line up internships/networking with people working in the field locally.

Apologize if this was already suggested.
Old 24th May 2019
  #112
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KobyAndrew's Avatar
 

Many people doubted before entering college. This is normal, because it largely determines your fate. Students have little free time. They have to write a bunch of research papers that can be found on the online service right here. It is very convenient and fast. If you doubt entering college, better do it. You can leave at any time.
Old 24th May 2019
  #113
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KobyAndrew's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiotoType View Post
I do not agree with you. If a person already knows what he wants to do and does not need a college for this, then he can choose such a path.
Any teenager thinks that he knows what he wants to do, but after six months he will get tired of it, and he will not be able to enter college.
Old 28th May 2019
  #114
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Derp's Avatar
In hindsight, I think it's kinda messed up that kids have to decide so young what their futures are going to be. If I knew then what I know now (i.e. I was a very stupid teenager), I would have done so many things differently starting at middle-school onward. I've survived well without a degree, but I would have loved to get one when I still had the steam from already being in school.
Old 28th May 2019
  #115
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
Math, engineering, medical and law are the reasons you go to college. Basket weaving you can learn on your own. Welders and plumbers make very good $ in 'merica.
Define "very good $" in America? When I was working in the plumbing trade I made ****, the licensed service guy was always hitting me up for money and the other licensed guy lived off his wife's salary and would work half days. Both bosses drove **** trucks and constantly bitched about being broke.

Not sure about welders, but what's that max out at? $80-$90K/year if you're a top guy with a **** ton on tenure? I bet welders in the middle of their careers average less than $40K/year. That's nothing to sneeze at sure, but I'd hardly define that as "very good $," especially given the hours and labor. I'm sure you'll disagree with me, and that's fine. We can just chalk it up to me valuing my time.
Old 28th May 2019
  #116
I don't think it's a good idea to get a degree anymore unless it's a high level degree like MA or PHD, that really sets people apart from the BA crowd, I don't have a degree in audio and have managed to make money off it, what I found out though is that it really isn't what I thought it was and it's not what I want to do, I studied music composition and performance and for me getting into audio engineering was a big mistake, not many people can compose music to a really high level, nor can they transcribe music, arrange or analyse music which is where my true passion lies.
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