The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
SpeakOn Neutrik cables for XLR ?? Studio Monitors
Old 23rd July 2014
  #1
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
SpeakOn Neutrik cables for XLR ??

Hi
i never had speakers with XLR. My old studio speakers had regular, screwing copper cables.
Now im gettin new speakers soon and want to order some cables in advance (not just speaker cables) and i am wondering if these SpeakOn Cables are the cables i would use to connect my speakers. Like EVE SC 208 for example. who said NEUTRIK XLR...

Also i wonder how to connect them.
I will run my soundcard out into a API 500 Lunchbox and out of that XLR into my speakers (i guess)
im wondering how i would connect everything if i want to record my tracks. do i have to unplug the speakers and connect it to my soundcard in to record it (since i will use those 500 Analog pieces)
Or do have speakers a through XLR like midi or do i need to put something in front of my speakers...

im wondering..
thanx
Old 23rd July 2014
  #2
Exactly which speakers are you planning on purchasing?

The EVE SC208 speakers are active monitors. That means they use internal amplifiers so the XLR (and RCA) inputs take line-level audio. They don't use a external audio power amplifier such as the type which have Speakon connectors. Speakons are not used for line-level interconnections or active monitors, they are used on power amplifiers and passive speakers.

An active monitor would be driven from a Mixer "main" line-level output or from the "Line-level" output of a computer audio interface.

If you have an external audio interface it will likely have either balanced 1/4-inch TRS or XLR (M) outputs. If it's an internal computer soundcard, it may have unbalanced RCA outputs or it may only have a single 3.5mm Stereo jack. The correct cable depends on what kind of output your "soundcard" actually has. If it's on RCA jacks, a simple RCA to RCA cable will work best for an active monitor like the EVE SC208. If it's on a single 3.5 mm stereo jack, then a 3.5 mm stereo to dual RCA breakout cable is needed. If your audio output is on RCA or a 3.5 mm stereo jack, there is absolutely no advantage to using the XLR inputs (since it's an unbalanced" signal source).

If you have an external interface with 1/4-inch TRS balanced outputs, a pair of simple balanced TRS to XLR cable are all that's needed.

If you specify what kind of output connectors your "soundcard" has, what you're trying to do, and what speakers you have or will have, we can help recommend the proper way to connect them.

Unless you need to feed a 500 Series processor in your Lunchbox, there is no reason at all to connect the "soundcard " output to the Lunchbox. Generally the interface (soundcard) outputs connect directly to the speakers, unless you are in a studio situation that may require switching between different monitors which might require a monitor controller.

There are a few passive speakers (speakers that do require a power amplifier) that do use XLR connectors for input, but those are rare and not commonly used anymore. Most speakers (monitors) equipped with XLR input jacks are internally amplified and require "line-level: signals only.

A "Lunchbox" can be used to house any number of "500" modules: mic pres, EQs', compressors, and even external interfaces. There are 500 Series racks that actually include an interface and will connect directly to a computer through a USB digital connection. However most"lunchboxes are simply passive racks to hold whatever you want to put in and need an external interface to allow recording with a computer. How to connect it all depends entirely on which modules you are using and what you're trying to do.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #3
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Hey Lotus, thanx for jumping on.
Yes youre right ive to go more into detail..
Ill have a RME Multiface II and the speakers im about to buy are Focal CMS 65 or EVE 208 or AE22 most likely..
Yes i know youre refering to APhex 500 lunchbox. But like you said, most of "regular" lunchboxes are passive.
I have a Lindell Power 6. 2 preamps and 2 eQs.. and i want to use them for my mix. So i thought i need to send everything through it and out of it into the speakers ???
But like i said, if i want to record it, and they are in the speakers..!! ??? guess there are seperate outs needed !!

i tried to get rid of a mixer. But i still have an old SECK 1282..80s Analog Desk. But i wanted to get my recording way as short as possible, and noisefree as possible as well..
So i tried to unplug the desk and go straight through the modules..
well to fill out every question here. I use all 8 outs of the RME via a TRS to db25 (d-sub 25) cable into my folcrom (from roll music) and also use 8 outs via ADAT through an APHEX 141.
i just mean i use all 8 outputs (analog at least) already..
Maybe i should keep the Seck Mixer ?? looks like thats the (near) only way.
thanks for pointing out that SpeakOn are just for passive speakers.. So i dont need to order them i thought they were a special XLR version, just for speakers..
Thats why i asked... So MIXER ... DESK .... CONSOLE ... The only way to go ??
Old 23rd July 2014
  #4
Interesting--- I have a old SECK Model-62 Mk-II that works perfectly and I can't bare to get rid of it. Built very well and still sounds great and is easy to use because of the generous size Not all the knobs crammed together.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I completely understand what you ultimately need but, with the Multiface -II you have a lot of options. The Folcrom passive mixer output will be too low to drive the monitors directly, but you can place a TRS/TRS monitor switch in two of the lines feeding [into] the Folcrom and then mix in your DAW routing the mix to (2) of the RME outputs. The monitor switch would divert the (2) "main" outputs and send them directly to your active monitors (or back to the (2) Folcrom inputs).. That would allow clean monitoring of anything that you had in your DAW or the computer.

If you have simultaneous, multiple outputs from your lunchbox modules, you can take those line-level balanced outputs and mix them down to two channels in the SECK and then feed the SECK "mains" into another monitor switch. That switch would select either the RME 2-channel output from the first "diverter" switch ahead of the Folcrom OR the SECK mixer feed from the Lunchbox modules.

A HOSA SLW-333 will accept (3) pairs of balanced TRS inputs (3 stereo sources) and allow rapid switching to one pair of TRS outputs (feeding one set of active monitors) OR will work in reverse taking one output and routing it to up to three different inputs. It's purely passive and won't change the signal quality.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #5
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Hey Lotus,
problem with my seck is it has no original PS so its not really clean and the channels scratch a bit, on every channel.

The Folcrom gets "powered" by preamps which are in the 500 rack.
The folcrom get "fed" by Db25 only so i cant use a TRS/TRS monitor switch. Or i missunderstood something.
The lindell lunchbox just has one OUT and not multiple so theres no way to split the signal.
guess i have to use the Seck anyway.
the folcrom output is 2 channels. these go into the Lunchbox. so i guess after the lunchbox i need a switch ? is there a XLR/XLR monitor switch as well ? guess that would be the solution without a mixer.
But like i said, maybe i missunderstood something.
anyway, you opened more ways than ive imagined. So thanx for that
Old 24th July 2014
  #6
I think this may provide the flexibility you need for your active monitors:

The (8) channels of RME output are on TRS jacks which normally would feed the 8X TRS to DB-25 "snake' connected to the Folcrom. To isolate two RME channels for "In the Box" mixing, RME Ch-1 and CH-2 go to a balanced, stereo switch and RME Ch 3-8 all go directly into the snake. one pair of the TRS stereo switch outputs connects to the the CH.1 and Ch. 2 plugs on the snake. The other switch stereo pair outputs can go directly to your second monitor selector switch.

The Folcrom stereo outputs go the the 500-Series pre amps (and EQs) to recover the 30 to 40 dB passive summing signal drop in the Folcrom and then the line-level outputs of the 500-Series pre connect to one of the other input pairs of the second monitor switch.

Using the Lunchbox that way allow the Folcrom to drive the monitors through the mic pres and EQ's. You could then also tap off the Lunchbox outputs (using some TRS "Y" cables) and run them back into the RME to record the final mix after the Folcrom and the EQs. The only real "caution" would be that you would have to be careful of your DAW routing, so that if the final Folcrom/mic pr/EQ mix was being recorded through (2) of the RME inputs, that you don't route any of those inputs back to an active output creating a feedback loop around the RME.

A small patchbay could always be used instead of the TRS switches

See attached Block Diagram-1:
.
.
Attached Thumbnails
SpeakOn Neutrik cables for XLR ??-block-diagram-1.jpg  
Old 24th July 2014
  #7
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Puhh, man, i would have never came up with that Thank you very much for all that and even that block diagram !!!
I guess the trs splitter doesnt produce quality loss or even ms's of delay ?
Think this is a solution then without a mixer !
Can you suggest a (good) splitter for this action.
So ill see if this all works when i got my equipment. !
thx again Lotus Turbo Esprit :D
Old 24th July 2014
  #8
As long as the source (in this case the lunchbox) is line-level, and has a low output impedance, as any contemporary mic pre or active EQ will have, there in no problem with an output feeding a pair (or even more) inputs. Modern line outputs are designed to be used in a "bridging" mode, not a matched impedance mode as older "vintage" gear was intended to be used. That means one output can feed multiple inputs at the same time with no quality loss at all. Of course, all the components in the signal path (the TRS switches and all cables) should be fully balanced.

When mixing through the Folcrom and re-recording the final mix back through the Multiface-II, there will be a small delay between the original tracks and the final 2-track mix. However, that should not be an issue, because presumably, the 2-track "final" won't be again mixed with any of the original multi-track material in the DAW. Also the typical RME driver latency is very low. If for any reason, you do have to add any material from the original multi-track, you can simply add a matching delay, or just shift the re-recorded 2-track mix forward into alignment with the original multi-tracks.


Hosa makes the "TRS CYS105" TRS to dual TRS "Y" cables which you should be able to find or have shipped to Deutschland. Another possibility is a male TRS to dual female TRS "Y" used with a pair of regular TRS/TRS cables.

You do have to be sure that the cable is a true "Y" connection, that is that both outputs are simply in parallel with the input. You don't want a cable which is wired as an "insert" or stereo "breakout" which is intended to split the Tip signal to one connector and the Ring to the other. Those are usually pretty obvious since they will have a TRS input and (2) TS outputs. If you have any soldering skills, you can also make your own "Y" cable. All connections are simply wired in parallel.

Also, remember the HOSA SLW-333 switches actually have a 3 to 1 or (if used in reverse) a 1 to 3 switching arrangement. That means you will have an additional set of TRS inputs available for your monitors via "Switch-2" as well as an additional set of switched TRS outputs from the Multiface Ch. 1 & Ch. 2 via "Switch-1". I didn't bother to show those on the block diagram, but remember, they are there if you need to add a third source, or different signal path to the monitors to the system in the future.

Also, always keep in mind that it's possible to wind up with an output feeding an input that is connected to the original output. That will create a feedback path, so be careful of your DAW routing.
Old 25th July 2014
  #9
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Hi again Lotus.
I found this TRS splitter ART Pro Audio
couldnt find anything else with less channels.

but i was thinking. i could go out after the lunchbox instead directly after the TRS output of the RME?? so i need a XLR splitter. found this
Millenium SP 31 - Thomann UK

what do you think ??
ThX
Old 25th July 2014
  #10
You really should use a "parallel" splitter for best results. The ART Pro has a minimum insertion loss of 12 dB. I would not use it in your application.

The Milenium splitter box looks fine and should work OK to split any XLR outputs you have. There are XLR (F) to dual XLR(M) cable "Y" splitters which are less expensive which will work as well.

If your Lunchbox line outputs are on XLRs, then you really need a XLR(F) to dual TRS plugs. I've not seen those commercially available, although any good audio tech can easily build a pair, or (less nice) it can also be done with XLR to TRS balanced adapters, but using a direct wired connection without adapters is always more reliable. When driving multiple inputs at the same time, it's really best to be connected directly to the source output, not through any type of attenuator or mixer unless you want to add another gain stage.

All XLR monitor switches also exist, but are much more costly than the TRS versions.
Old 26th July 2014
  #11
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Man Lotus, dont know what i would do without your help
Im going to buy two of those Millenium SP 31. Because i really want to record everything through the Lunchbox and i dont trust these Y split cables. Im sure theres a loss somehow.. (in fact i just read that you loose a dB, which isnt that bad)
ps after the splitter i can get a xlr ->trs cable and go back to the rme. the other to the speaker..
btw. also found this
Millenium SP 3 Splitter - Thomann UK whats the big difference between them or whats simply better for me ? or doesnt it matter at all
im really not a tech nerd as you can assume :D
so i say thanx again and have a nice weekend..


man.
i just contacted thomann since they are in germany which would be better and they ment to say that those are mic boxes and lunchbox is giving out line signals so i should go for this one
http://www.thomann.de/gb/palmer_pls02_line_splitter.htm
which cost 10times more, for this i better unplug the speakers and record in silent !! I guess they just wanna make BANK !

i also found out that a real good splitter would have galvanic separation inside. So thats maybe whats so expensive..
If you suggest one of those boxes (over the Y) then ill get them otherwise ill just buy Y Cables..
hmmm
Time goes
I found some guy in germany who's selling 3 splitters:
PROEL SPI4CH Passive Splitter
T.Racks Eight
MILLENIUM SP 8
any of those maybe good/better vs the others vs XLR Y Cable ?
Old 26th July 2014
  #12
Good questions!

Thomann is just trying to raise their profit margin! A direct parallel "Y" splitter is actually the best possible connection for your situation. The lunchbox module line outputs can easily drive both inputs.

The XLR Pro Snake No. 90074 "Y" splitter will work fine. Just because the Palmer is in a box and has a ground lift (which you don't need at all) doesn't change anything. The output of the lunchbox module still must provide the signal current to drive (2) inputs, which is no problem.

A splitter with galvanic separation (isolation transformers) can eliminate ground loop issues, but all of your hardware will be close together and have a common ground so that is not an issue. The transformer-equipped splitter will actually have slightly higher losses and will add a tiny amount of harmonic distortion and low frequency saturation when compared to a parallel "Y" cable splitter. The RME has very good balanced inputs, and as long as everything is balanced, there should be absolutely no need for an isolated splitter.

If any of your gear used unbalanced outputs or was located at a great distance from the other gear and was being powered from a different AC mains source, an isolated splitter could be useful to solve potential problems.

Try the "Y" cable splitter first. If you are using good cables and everything is relatively close together and powered from the same mains AC power feed there is no reason to believe you will have any issues. The only reason to use a isolated splitter like the Palmer, and add the extra signal loss and (admittedly very low, inaudible distortion) would be to provide ground isolation.
Old 26th July 2014
  #13
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
COOL!
ill do that. And yes everything is pretty close together. even my speaker just get 1m cables. lunchbox db25 are just 50cm "long".
The only thing ill use which is unbalanced is the aphex 141 DA converter, connected via toslink optical output of my multiface and with a 50cm db25 out to the folcrom (or the other way around) and they all use the same power. So i guess ill use the Y cables otherwise i would have use my Seck hanging on the wall just for the speakers, but this would be a waster of POWER consumption.
The only thing which would be even better would be a xlr femal to xlr male and trs male.
Just found this "Dreitec 63410" on ebay but its hard to see coz sh!t photo but maybe theres a chance.
SpeakOn Neutrik cables for XLR ??DreiTec 63410 1,5m Y Audio Kabel Klinke XLR/M + XLR/F | eBay (or look for this article number 371109228117)
i wonder if theres a difference if theres XLR female and xlr male and TRS on the other side
or if theres TRS on one and both XLRs on the other side. i mean besides from unpractical (on a 1.50m cable) its the same wireing or not ?
and of course again a thank you very much for beeing helpster of the week
Old 26th July 2014
  #14
It's hard to tell how that one is wired (not enough info) but I'd guess it's NOT a parallel "Y' cable but is an "Insert " cable. designed for a channel strip mixer insert jack with the XLR male connected only the TRS "Tip" (send) and the XLR Female only to the "Ring" Return. It would be easy to verify using an ohmmeter. That's just a guess, and they do call it a "Y" cable so could be either version. If it's wired as an "Insert" it won't work at all as a dual-output splitter.

If it's wired as an insert, it could be re-wired to a parallel "Y" cable, but if you have to take connectors apart, remove jumpers, and solder, so it's actually easier to just build-up a proper cable from scratch with new wire and connectors.
Old 27th July 2014
  #15
Gear Nut
 
zabooka's Avatar
Holy sh...
No i better buy the other one and short cables to plug onto that cable.
Now ill be safe.. Thanx Lotus
Old 28th October 2015
  #16
This is great info. I may go for this setup for a multiple monitoring solution with two studio monitors plus a mixcube. Is this a good idea? The alternatives are the Hossa SLW 333 with 5 new cables, the NowSonic Switcher (with a potentiometer I don't want/need), or the Sm Pro Audio M-Patch. This is such a cheap solution I feel it's overlooked.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump