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Songs too quiet when I burn to disc DAW Software
Old 25th July 2014
  #31
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RRCHON's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosajjao View Post
Regarding the RMS comment earlier, does a loudness meter provide the RMS reading?
Kind of, the Root Mean Square a function that give you a statistical an average of the peaks over a window of time as compared to a known wave form. It relates a little better as to how human ears perceive volume changes than a digital peak meter but it is a standardized measure and it can be measured many different ways (different window sizes, different wave form, different ceilings.) There is more on this topic, RMS of voltages, ect...

Cubsae has a RMS Metering function as well Loudness meters are that are based on Loudness standards which are based on algorithms and filters as to approximate human hearing. There for the most part are broadcast standards but they can translate over to music post production or production rather well. The thing to understand is than none of them is perfect, they were created to allow compliance with legal standards and as the means to enforce those standards. You can research Program Metering and it will explain it a bit better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosajjao View Post
I am running Cubase 7.5 and when I master I generally go off of limiting the loudest peaks by 2db so I still maintain some dynamics, and set a brick wall limiter to -0.1 db so that I never clip over 0db.
The dynamic range of a recording isn't based on how much you limit, though as you increase you gain reduction, more and more distortion will be introduced into you signal. Average Crest Factors, and Max Crest Factor, the difference between the quiet parts of your signal and it's loudest parts are what dynamic range is about. 2dBs of gain reduction isn't going to cause a contemporary limiter any problems (though it really depends what you are feeding it.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosajjao View Post
Would it help more to watch the loudness meter during mastering rather than the normal meter that shows dB?
Yes but trust you ears most of all. Also, a loudness meter will typically measure back from zero the same as your digital peak meter. A reading of -9 is louder than a reading of -12.
Old 25th July 2014
  #32
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
You can research Program Metering and it will explain it a bit better.
I'll Have to check that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
Average Crest Factors, and Max Crest Factor, the difference between the quiet parts of your signal and it's loudest parts are what dynamic range is about.
I always watch this closely in Voxengo Span. I'd read elsewhere that 2db max crest factor was what you'd see with over compressed music. I generally find my music hits between 8 and 12 db max crest factor, after going by ear and compressor needle movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
A reading of -9 is louder than a reading of -12.
Yeah I don't remember when I learned that, but at some point I remember figuring out that it went from negative numbers up to zero based on sensitivity, not on volume. I have this old Marantz receiver that uses sensitivity readings instead of volume for its numbers, and I'd always wondered before why zero was louder than -45. So much science involved in music engineering.
Old 25th July 2014
  #33
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RRCHON's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGuy View Post
At this point, I just want to raise the overall volume. I will have my tracks mastered professionally once I have at least 10 ready. In the mean time, I'd just like to be able to listen to my songs in a boom box and have them be a normal level without turning the volume up full blast.
The limiter in Logic Express, which I don't even know if there is one, and the compressors included will be good enough for what you need to do.

The problem is aside form telling you that.... there still isn't enough information to actually tell you anything useful. Nobody can read your mind, and people as you see are more than willing to help you, if you just provide them with either enough information through the use of numbers, descriptions, and technical jargon or an example.

That's why Mr. Yumid said the tread was useless. Your tracks are relatively low in volume compared to commercial releases. That is understood, but they could be low for a number a reasons, and people have written entire thick books on the subject. It would take a thick book or at least a wall of text to cover all the basics of what might or might no be wrong and a sensible approach on trying to get what you want from what you have.

So, instead of just riding carousel and pointing at the mean kids outside, explain yourself a little better. Peaks are at X, Average RMS or Average LUFS/LUKS is at Y... I am comparing my track to Z, and even then it will still be a guessing game but at least people will have something to go on.

Sometimes the fastest and shortest path between two points is demonstrative.

Good luck with you project, and I wish you the best.
Old 25th July 2014
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGuy View Post
At this point, I just want to raise the overall volume. I will have my tracks mastered professionally once I have at least 10 ready. In the mean time, I'd just like to be able to listen to my songs in a boom box and have them be a normal level without turning the volume up full blast.
Sometimes I use this plugin at the end of my master bus to get a rough idea of what the mix will sound like after a mastering limiter is used. It's actually a fairly decent tool and may work for your needs:
>>loudmax plugin<<
Old 25th July 2014
  #35
Gear Maniac
 

THANKS SCOOTERTRASH!! That looks like something worth checking out. I download it and give it a try tonight after work.
Old 25th July 2014
  #36
Gear Maniac
 
kraus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRCHON View Post
The limiter in Logic Express, which I don't even know if there is one, and the compressors included will be good enough for what you need to do.

The problem is aside form telling you that.... there still isn't enough information to actually tell you anything useful. Nobody can read your mind, and people as you see are more than willing to help you, if you just provide them with either enough information through the use of numbers, descriptions, and technical jargon or an example.

That's why Mr. Yumid said the tread was useless. Your tracks are relatively low in volume compared to commercial releases. That is understood, but they could be low for a number a reasons, and people have written entire thick books on the subject. It would take a thick book or at least a wall of text to cover all the basics of what might or might no be wrong and a sensible approach on trying to get what you want from what you have.

So, instead of just riding carousel and pointing at the mean kids outside, explain yourself a little better. Peaks are at X, Average RMS or Average LUFS/LUKS is at Y... I am comparing my track to Z, and even then it will still be a guessing game but at least people will have something to go on.

Sometimes the fastest and shortest path between two points is demonstrative.

Good luck with you project, and I wish you the best.
If you read the first post all the info you need is there.. He states that he is watching the levels so one must assume he is keeping things close to zero. This may be a bogus assumption but let's pretend he knows at least that much.

He also states that he was previously using HarBal which is a Mastering Software for PC.

Furthermore he is moving from PC to Mac. Since he no longer is using a Mastering Software it is easily deduced that the OP is looking for a replacement software. Most likely something with a Limiter as that is generally part of the mastering process..

Cheers!
Old 25th July 2014
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraus View Post
If you read the first post all the info you need is there.. He states that he is watching the levels so one must assume he is keeping things close to zero. This may be a bogus assumption but let's pretend he knows at least that much.

He also states that he was previously using HarBal which is a Mastering Software for PC.

Furthermore he is moving from PC to Mac. Since he no longer is using a Mastering Software it is easily deduced that the OP is looking for a replacement software. Most likely something with a Limiter as that is generally part of the mastering process..

Cheers!
Thank you for pointing all that out. I indeed am watching my peaks to make sure I don't go above zero on the meter. I think some people here just like to attack others and belittle them instead of helping! I am using Logic Express and it is the same as Garageband in that it is a little hard to export a song and have it be an acceptable volume when you burn it to disc.
Old 25th July 2014
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAGuy View Post
THANKS SCOOTERTRASH!! That looks like something worth checking out. I download it and give it a try tonight after work.
No prob. If that doesn't work out for ya, give vladg Limiter N0.6 a try. It has a few more parameters and can be fairly transparent. The Loudmax plugin usually works and is easy to use, but if you want something a bit more tweakable, Limiter No. 6 can work. If you want to do a bit of your own mastering and have some disposable income, Izotope Ozone can be very useful. Good luck.
Old 25th July 2014
  #39
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RRCHON's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraus View Post
If you read the first post all the info you need is there.. He states that he is watching the levels so one must assume he is keeping things close to zero. This may be a bogus assumption but let's pretend he knows at least that much.

He also states that he was previously using HarBal which is a Mastering Software for PC.

Furthermore he is moving from PC to Mac. Since he no longer is using a Mastering Software it is easily deduced that the OP is looking for a replacement software. Most likely something with a Limiter as that is generally part of the mastering process..

Cheers!

Even if you take it for granted that his peaks approach a dBFS 0, there is still no information about what the average signal is like. You are assuming that frequency is balanced and that is signal is heavily tilted. You are assuming that there isn't a mountain of low frequency stacking to make up for lack of upper spectrum harmonic content. This can go on.

I actually wanted to help him understand what was going on and how to not just fix it without actually fixing it. I mean Har-Bal's robo mastering works on Mac if it was so great why not just re-install it.

I guess there is no point in trying to actually understand the problem. The kid will be back in 2 weeks after spending a bunch of money and time trying to fix something that might or might related to limiting.

If it was just a limiter problem - the full blast on the boom box, just doesn't make sense. That is unless the volume knob on his boom box has a 6 dBSPL range from 1 - 100%.

w/e.... I already wished the kid the best. I don't know why I keep getting sucked in back into this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter Trash View Post
No prob. If that doesn't work out for ya, give vladg Limiter N0.6 a try. It has a few more parameters and can be fairly transparent. The Loudmax plugin usually works and is easy to use, but if you want something a bit more tweakable, Limiter No. 6 can work. If you want to do a bit of your own mastering and have some disposable income, Izotope Ozone can be very useful. Good luck.

In addition to VLadg Limiter No.6. visit http://www.tokyodawn.net/tokyo-dawn-labs/ they have some free stuff (Feedback Compressor, 3 band shelving EQs, Distortion processor) which you might or might not be able to use.
Old 26th July 2014
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

Wow what a weird response. It's funny when angry unhappy people try to explain why they're so hateful and make it seem like they trying to be helpful!

Thanks to those of you who actually helped instead of ridiculing me.
Old 29th July 2014
  #41
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Yumid's Avatar
 

lol
Old 9th February 2015
  #42
Here for the gear
 

I had the same issue. Found Thomas Mundt Loudmax plug-in free! works for me, good luck!
Old 10th February 2015
  #43
Gear Guru
As far as the FGX question earlier. It is a really easy plug in to use if you read the manual, and you can learn a lot about pseudo mastering from it. You can usually find it on sale. Tone boosters also has a barricade limiter that is inexpensive and probably great. The Limiter #6 is wonderful free, but complicated to begin with. Have fun above all else!
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