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Decision to take: Behringer Eurodesk MX8000 or Mackie 24/8? Studio Headphones
Old 20th July 2014
  #1
Decision to take: Behringer Eurodesk MX8000 or Mackie 24/8?

Hi there,
as you might read in the topic: what would be the best choice for a home recording studio, which mainly focuses on synthesizers/electronic music (analog units the most)? I've the chance to choose between the mentioned mixers, almost the same price (both used).

Any help will be much appreciated!

Thanks,
F.
Old 20th July 2014
  #2
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Personally I would go with the mackie. I have a personal distain with berhringer gear.

They have a lot of great prices on their stuff...but I personally view them as a low end product.

Not that mackie is insanely high end but they make a solid product.
Old 21st July 2014
  #3
Hi Korbin,
thanks for your reply.
In the meantime I got the chance to talk to one of my mates, who ran a recording studio until a couple of years ago: he told me to never ever mention "Behringer" again in his presence!
I'll look for a Mackie then... it doesn't need to be "highest end" (it's still "home" recording), but at the same price I'd rather choose the Mackie one.

Thanks and regards,
F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #4
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No prob...and I agree with your friend haha
Old 21st July 2014
  #5
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spambot_2's Avatar
Unless you were recording full bands that needed little to no mixing, I'd suggest getting a relatively big audio interface, maybe with an ADAT input or two so you can expand it when you'll need more channels.
Old 21st July 2014
  #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korbin View Post
No prob...and I agree with your friend haha
Ah, BTW... is there a big difference (or bettere WHAT IS the difference) between Mackie 24/8 and 24/4?

Thanks,
F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #7
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spambot_2's Avatar
If they're from the same series, the only different thing is the number of faders.

Thing is, there's a "Mackie 24.8" and there's a "Mackie Onyx 24-4".
If you're talking about the difference between these two, the onyx has different "supposedly better" pre's, a different EQ, and an onboard channel assignable comrpessor.
The rest is pretty much the same.

Well yeah, there's also the number of busses, but that's it.
Old 21st July 2014
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
If they're from the same series, the only different thing is the number of faders.

Thing is, there's a "Mackie 24.8" and there's a "Mackie Onyx 24-4".
If you're talking about the difference between these two, the onyx has different "supposedly better" pre's, a different EQ, and an onboard channel assignable comrpessor.
The rest is pretty much the same.

Well yeah, there's also the number of busses, but that's it.
I stand corrected: I'm talking about a Mackie 24/8 and a Mackie VLZ 24/4... are there any differences at all?

F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #9
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Mushy Mushy's Avatar
 

I thought the convention was:
XX.Y

Where:
XX number of channels
Y number of busses

At least this applies to my 32.8.
Old 21st July 2014
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushy Mushy View Post
I thought the convention was:
XX.Y

Where:
XX number of channels
Y number of busses

At least this applies to my 32.8.
You're right, and in fact I think 24/8 or 24.8 doesn't make a difference... But yes, I mean the 28.8 and 24.4 in the above mentioned "model variations"...

F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #11
Gear Guru
 

certain models in the VLZ series have an intractable "ribbon cable" issue that causes dropouts in the main mix bus or the groups. After 3 attempts at repair, my 16 channel VLZ is still not working. It sits in a box in the cellar.


I won't go so far as to recommend Behringer, !! but if you are buying used, you should really do the research about the ribbon cable issues and avoid any Mackie that has it or that even might have it.
Old 21st July 2014
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I won't go so far as to recommend Behringer, !! but if you are buying used, you should really do the research about the ribbon cable issues and avoid any Mackie that has it or that even might have it.
Hi JoeQ and thanks for your input here... How would I recognize if ribbon cables are an issue? I mean, I have the chance to go and see/hear the mixer...
And even if everything is ok, would there be a chance to get new ribbon cables if the original ones would somewhen fail or be causing problems?

Thanks,
F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #13
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Well many responses lol...but I'm pretty sure it's simply 24 channels and 4 sub groups instead of 8 sub groups.

There will likely be some other model indication to reflect the series.
Old 21st July 2014
  #14
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You won't go wrong with the mackie. It's a nice little mixer. I have always enjoyed them.
Old 21st July 2014
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korbin View Post
Well many responses lol...but I'm pretty sure it's simply 24 channels and 4 sub groups instead of 8 sub groups.

There will likely be some other model indication to reflect the series.
Yes, indeed Korbin :-)

Well, I only wanted to know if there are some "hidden" differences in the hardware built into those two models, as they seem to be quite a couple of years apart...

Nevertheless, I'll keep my eyes open for a Mackie...

Cheers!
F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #16
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB View Post
Hi JoeQ and thanks for your input here... How would I recognize if ribbon cables are an issue? I mean, I have the chance to go and see/hear the mixer...
And even if everything is ok, would there be a chance to get new ribbon cables if the original ones would somewhen fail or be causing problems?

Thanks,
F.
My situation, which was apparently typical, was that I replaced the ribbon cable 3 times, and also tried a last-ditch "spray and pray" attempt to clean the contacts. None of the repairs "stuck", though the machine would work properly for a few weeks after each repair. To be fair, Mackie did the repairs free each time, but OTOH, after the third time, its not even worth the gas to drive to the service center anymore.

If the ribbon cables are already an issue, you will see that one side (usually the right) no longer outputs sound! Hard to miss that! Sometimes one of the groups goes out. Sometimes the sound will come back if you over-crank the input - then it will cut out again. As far as I know there is no way to see if it is "going to become" an issue until it fails, then it is too late.

my best advice is to do some searches on the Mackie Ribbon cable issue, find out which models are involved and simply avoid those models completely and without exception. Mine was a 1604 VLZ
Old 21st July 2014
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
my best advice is to do some searches on the Mackie Ribbon cable issue, find out which models are involved and simply avoid those models completely and without exception. Mine was a 1604 VLZ
Hi again, Joe.
I read somewhere that some but not all of the 24.8 could've had this issue... no actual reports, simply ppl talking about this "possible" issue...

So, if I'd have to look for some other 24ch studio mixer (no need for buses, I will record synths and similar, electronic music is my main interest), what should I consider next? I don't want to buy it new and my budget should remain around $ 500-600 (this is what that 24.8 Mackie would cost to me, today: USD 555)...

Thanksalot!
F.
Old 21st July 2014
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB View Post
Hi again, Joe.
I read somewhere that some but not all of the 24.8 could've had this issue... no actual reports, simply ppl talking about this "possible" issue...

So, if I'd have to look for some other 24ch studio mixer (no need for buses, I will record synths and similar, electronic music is my main interest), what should I consider next? I don't want to buy it new and my budget should remain around $ 500-600 (this is what that 24.8 Mackie would cost to me, today: USD 555)...

Thanksalot!
F.
I am not up on all the models and so on, so I am not much help there. I bought the mixer 10+ years ago for some live use and ended up regretting it.

Perhaps for example, the newer Onyx models are free of this defect. I have not heard about any of them having this problem.

Don't forget, there are also plenty of other brands of mixers out there. A search around Gearslutz for your same question will find you plenty of mixers that have not even shown up in this thread yet. The school where I teach has a little Allen and Heath mixer in the lab that is pretty solid. The old Soundtracs and Soundcraft mixers were good. Age may be an issue, but IMO they were superior to what's available in that same "class" of mixer today.

Quote:
I read somewhere that some but not all of the 24.8 could've had this issue
Just my 2¢ - dig a little deeper and see what specific models actually do have the issue. If ANY units of a particular model had the issue, I say avoid that model like the plague. Because there is no solution - there is no way to "fix" the problem for good.

This is my opinion. But it is based on my personal experience. If you want to take your chances that the mixer you buy will not be one of the "some", be my guest.
Old 21st July 2014
  #19
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spambot_2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB View Post
So, if I'd have to look for some other 24ch studio mixer (no need for buses, I will record synths and similar, electronic music is my main interest), what should I consider next?
An audio interface.

I don't really understand why you would wanna get a mixer.
Old 21st July 2014
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by spambot_2 View Post
An audio interface.

I don't really understand why you would wanna get a mixer.
Yeah well... I used to "visit" a friend's studio like almost 17-20 years ago and since then I never got mine set up... thus I remember using physical mixers and stuff.

I've not yet been into "audio interfaces", thus I would be happy if you could explain a bit deeper what advantages I could get (besides saving space in my studio) or in general what differences I would have between the two options...

Thanks,
F.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #21
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There are a million reasons to have a mixer.

You need the interface either way.

A mixer is a cheaper way to get more mic pres than buying interfaces with mic pres also.

To buy 3 motu 896's which would give you 24 mic pres that would cost near $3000.

Where as you can buy a mackie 24-8 plus 24 channels of converters only together for significantly less...

Not to mention the mic pres being a higher quality (which may or may not be the case with the mackie but still a reason for a mixer).

Routing is a huge one. Much easier to get multiple headphone outputs without having to eat up your interfaces line outputs so they can be used for other more useful things.

Also using outboard analog gear via insert points or aux outs.

The list goes on and on.

The interface provides you with in and out of your computer...that is all. Some may have some fx and what not but whatever. The mixer is a completely different thing than the interface and serves an entirely different purpose.

Sure you can mix everything in the box...and then you just need a way in...the interface...or you can mix out of the box and get some circuitry on the signal to make it sound nicer and not so digital.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #22
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After reading more into some of the posts. I must clarify the need for a mixer and interface are not exclusive from one another...the question is not "mixer or interface". They are two different things.

There seems to be some confusion on that.

If you are recording into a computer you NEED an interface...period.

The mixer has nothing to do with that...at all.

Your interface determines how many separate channels you can record and also what quality the conversion from analog to digital is.

A mixer is a different tool altogether.

Just to be clear.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #23
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One HUGE difference between the 24-8 and 24-4 is that the 24-8 is an inline console, with a "mix B" section, the 24-4 is not.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #24
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spambot_2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korbin View Post
Your interface determines how many separate channels you can record and also what quality the conversion from analog to digital is.
This.

Big studios have big consoles because they tent to use them to mix.
Thing is, behind them consoles they have big audio interfaces so they can record each audio channel separately to work on them afterwards.

Getting a mixer without an audio interface would mean not being able to record stuff into a computer with a better than fairly bad quality, and not being able to work on each track separately after it's been recorded, and that's why I'd say you would need an audio interface before any mixer.

Then you can always get a mixer and use it to mix, connected to your audio interface to have separate audio streams, though if you can't have separate audio streams you're bound to record a couple tracks at a time max if you wanna keep them separated, or record whatever number of tracks without being able to edit them individually afterwards.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #25
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Exactly...That's exactly what I said haha. Audio interface is a must no matter what. That still doesn't change the fact that mixer and interface are two separate tools.

If he decides he wants 24 channels into the computer...then he needs 24 channels of interface. That is the case with or without a mixer. That's my point.

When you say "Big audio interface. I don't understand why you want a mixer." You imply that a big audio interface somehow negates the purpose of a mixer. And all my point was...it doesn't. Mixer or not you have to have an interface...That has nothing to do with what the OP was asking. He asked for an opinion between two mixers, not how to record multi-track.

Again...yes you need an interface or multiple interfaces linked together that supports the number of individual inputs you want to record to your computer/DAW...If you want a mixer for purposes that have nothing to do with that fact...cause a mixer has nothing to do with that...and you are choosing between the mackie and the euro-desk...My advise/suggestion is the mackie.

If you want help figuring out how to impliment that mixer into your DAW setup...Then we can talk about what you need as far a an interface goes.

mixer = apple
interface = orange

Good luck OP!
Old 22nd July 2014
  #26
hehehe... thanks everybody!

Now it's clearer to me, what I can do with oranges and apples...

In fact, I think I'll start with a 24ch mixer as I already have a tiny audio interface. If that won't suffice, I'll upgrade my audio interface of course.

Thanks everybody!

F.
Old 22nd July 2014
  #27
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlavioB View Post
hehehe... thanks everybody!

Now it's clearer to me, what I can do with oranges and apples...

In fact, I think I'll start with a 24ch mixer as I already have a tiny audio interface. If that won't suffice, I'll upgrade my audio interface of course.

Thanks everybody!

F.
I think you still might be missing the point
your "tiny" audio interface probably has two inputs and two outputs. Your 24 channel mixer might as well be a 2 channel mixer in that case! There is nothing for you to "mix". All your mixing will have to be done inside the computer software.

You will need an interface that has 24 outputs in order to be able to send each track of your song to a channel on your mixer if you want to use the mixer to actually mix your songs.

to record, you could conceivably have 12 stereo keyboards playing at once INTO your mixer, but they would have to go down to just two channels with no possibility of ever individually adjusting them after.

The only meaningful use you could have for a mixer in a situation where you have a two-channel interface is that you could use it as a volume control. Maybe use the center section for talkback if you have anyone there to talk back TO. As preamps. 22 of the channels would mostly just be sitting idle.

If you are performing your keyboards one at a time, a mixer is not 'necessary' - you hardly even would need a patch bay. Just move one pair of wires from synth to synth as you track them. If you had a live band of 12 synth players, you could mix them on the way in, but as I said, they would all be lumped together onto a single pair of tracks.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #28
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Well... Yes and no.

People used to record straight to 2 track tape.

If he wanted to for now...he could record straight to a stereo mix.

But I agree...in the long run (and not so long run) he will need an audio interface. At least an 8 channel one to start.

But for now his DAW becomes a stereo recorder with a 24 channel mixer to mix that stereo track.

Actually could be pretty cool to be honest.

There is something to be said for making decisions ahead of time.
Old 23rd July 2014
  #29
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korbin View Post
Well... Yes and no.

People used to record straight to 2 track tape.

If he wanted to for now...he could record straight to a stereo mix.

But I agree...in the long run (and not so long run) he will need an audio interface. At least an 8 channel one to start.

But for now his DAW becomes a stereo recorder with a 24 channel mixer to mix that stereo track.

Actually could be pretty cool to be honest.

There is something to be said for making decisions ahead of time.
sure if he has a MIDI interface, (does he have a MIDI interface?) he could program all his hardware synths in advance and render the mix 'live' via his console onto the two tracks. But once again, these "suggested uses" for a console are coming from us, not from him.

Quote:
There seems to be some confusion...
I bet dollars to to doughnuts he is not rolling in dough, either. In my view, you probably shouldn't buy a piece of gear until you not only know what it is, what it can do, and why you need it; but you are frustrated by its absence.
Old 24th July 2014
  #30
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I think it's getting insanely far from the ops actual question which was...

I want to buy a mixer...between these two which do you think I should buy.

How this became about set up is beyond me.
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