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When should I use HPF during tracking? Dynamics Plugins
Old 14th July 2014
  #1
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mark88's Avatar
 

When should I use HPF during tracking?

I'm sorry for the newbieness... the question is: when should I use the High Pass Filter during tracking? Is there a difference using the one in the microphone or on the Preamp? And differences using it during tracking or ITB during mixes?

Could a HPF on the bass during tracking, help improving the clarity and remove some bass frequencies which are too muddy?

I tried searching but not found any thread.. maybe if Yu could give me a link to a previous thread...
thanks!
Old 14th July 2014
  #2
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spambot_2's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark88 View Post
1. when should I use the High Pass Filter during tracking?
2. Is there a difference using the one in the microphone or on the Preamp?
3. And differences using it during tracking or ITB during mixes?
4. Could a HPF on the bass during tracking, help improving the clarity and remove some bass frequencies which are too muddy?
1. whenever you feel like it.

I can't really see any reason why one would use a HPF during tracking though.

Well you may have a really good sounding HPF at your disposal when tracking that you'll not have there when mixing, so that might be a reason, but soundwise I see none.

2. choose the one that sounds better.

3. as noted before I can't really see any reason why you would do something like that during tracking, though again, your software HPF might suck, and in that case using whatever else would be better for the sake of getting a good sounding track.

Mind that modifying the sound before recording it doesn't give you the possibility of getting the original audio back if you feel like you could have done things differently and maybe a second order cut might have sounded better than a third order one or whatever.

4. it will remove some bass frequencies indeed, but it will not improve the clarity of the recording, so removing said frequencies afterwards will have the same effect, though if you remove them later non-destructively you have the chance of getting them back up.

One reason to remove them before recording here might be that unnecessary high frequencies overload your converters/pre's/whatever part of your signal chain, so if you're positive you don't need them you can remove them and raise the volume of the rest.

Again, only if said low frequency material was the cause of the overloading of something.
Old 14th July 2014
  #3
KEL
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Knowing each instrument's frequency range and the HPF cutoff of your mics and preamps switches allows you to decide how/when to use them. I'd say leave them off for bass, kick drum, floor Tom but everything else is open season.
Old 14th July 2014
  #4
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A perfect example for user of HPF during tracking is with a compressor after the EQ. Vocal plosives or low freq's can cause the compressor to pump. Turn on the HPF and it will go away.
Old 14th July 2014
  #5
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I like to hp @ the mic or preamp while tracking sources that may "superficial" low end spikes that can cause a/d overload. For instance, yesterday I was tracking 7-string metal guitar riffs through a tube bass rig. When the player would palm mute the low b string, sometimes there would be a huge low frequency level spike that would cause overload, so the hpf on the preamp went on.

Otherwise, I hp in the mix, either in the daw or on the board. Usually everything gets a hpf. It just depends on the source as to how low I set it. Kick is around 40, bass 40-70, floor tom about 60-70. The daw hpf lets Me set the freq. where it needs to be rather than the fixed freq. of a mic or preamp, which may be too high or low.
Old 14th July 2014
  #6
As I see it, and how I incorporate it in my life, is that you can and often should use HPF as often as you can on instruments that isn't suppose to handle the bass register. Mostly to avoid build-up in the bass frequencies. I.e if your recording an acoustic guitar tracks, it may not sound that bass heavy, but if you layer more instruments on top it may build up and you'll have a lot of rumble in the bass that you don't want.

So the rule of thumb can be that you should use HPF on every instrument that you don't associate with bass frequencies.

But if you're not sure you shall leave it alone and fix it later. But if you're sure that you don't want the guitar to mess about in the lower frequency range use HPF.

And as someone already said, use the one you thinks sound best. If it's on the mic or on the pre doesn't really matters. I like to engage the HPF as soon in the signal chain as I can. But I do listen though, some HPFs can cut away to much. So if you have different do an A/B test before you start tracking your song and pick the one that you like.
Old 14th July 2014
  #7
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mark88's Avatar
 

Thanks all for the quick replies... very interesting.

Only one question remain: should I use it when recording vocals with a cardioid microphone to compensate the proximity effect?
Old 14th July 2014
  #8
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If it sounds better, yes. If not turn it back off.
Old 14th July 2014
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRStudio View Post
If it sounds better, yes. If not turn it back off.
thanks!
Old 14th July 2014
  #10
KEL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRStudio View Post
If it sounds better, yes. If not turn it back off.
couldn't be simpler than that..

unless your monitoring setup does not allow you to hear LF gunk accurately. ..or it's a female singer. You will not ruin the track by engaging the HPF. Most are 6-12db @80 or 100hz with a fairly steep Q
Old 14th July 2014
  #11
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mark88's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEL View Post
couldn't be simpler than that..

unless your monitoring setup does not allow you to hear LF gunk accurately. ..or it's a female singer. You will not ruin the track by engaging the HPF. Most are 6-12db @80 or 100hz with a fairly steep Q
so the HPF on mics and preamps stands only for live situation when you need clarity and fast operation... not for recording. Is it right?
Old 14th July 2014
  #12
KEL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark88 View Post
so the HPF on mics and preamps stands only for live situation when you need clarity and fast operation... not for recording. Is it right?
No, for recording and live both.
Old 14th July 2014
  #13
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^^^^ correct. Use for either.
Old 14th July 2014
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark88 View Post
I'm sorry for the newbieness... the question is: when should I use the High Pass Filter during tracking? Is there a difference using the one in the microphone or on the Preamp? And differences using it during tracking or ITB during mixes?

Could a HPF on the bass during tracking, help improving the clarity and remove some bass frequencies which are too muddy?

I tried searching but not found any thread.. maybe if Yu could give me a link to a previous thread...
thanks!
rule of thumb is you use a hpf on everything except kick drum and bass guitar and lower toms.

The purpose of hpf is to eliminate low rumble from instruments that don't require it. Secondly you need to leave space for other instruments. Low frequencies eat up a lot in the spectrum. One could argue you should even hpass kick and bass guitar around 30 -40hz. this is because most playback devices can't recreate these lower frequencies without distortion. Also you should only use a hardware hpf if it is a very high quality unit. Otherwise let everything through while tracking and just do it ITB. Essentially if it doesn't pleasantly and purposely go "boom", high pass it.

Lastly hpf were used slightly differently back in the day because of vinyl. The more bass the more space on the record it would eat up. So engineers went crazy hp everything. that's why older records lack that thick bottom end.

Think of it as a cleanup tool. It can eliminate lower freq rumble/vibration of a mic stand etc..... Guitar amps recorded on the floor cause rumble. You don't hear this unless you have a sub. So HP everything but kick and bass and maybe floor tom. Now at what frequency you pass them??? is another story. That is subjective. start a whole new thread for that question
Old 14th July 2014
  #15
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mark88's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
rule of thumb is you use a hpf on everything except kick drum and bass guitar and lower toms.

The purpose of hpf is to eliminate low rumble from instruments that don't require it. Secondly you need to leave space for other instruments. Low frequencies eat up a lot in the spectrum. One could argue you should even hpass kick and bass guitar around 30 -40hz. this is because most playback devices can't recreate these lower frequencies without distortion. Also you should only use a hardware hpf if it is a very high quality unit. Otherwise let everything through while tracking and just do it ITB. Essentially if it doesn't pleasantly and purposely go "boom", high pass it.

Lastly hpf were used slightly differently back in the day because of vinyl. The more bass the more space on the record it would eat up. So engineers went crazy hp everything. that's why older records lack that thick bottom end.

Think of it as a cleanup tool. It can eliminate lower freq rumble/vibration of a mic stand etc..... Guitar amps recorded on the floor cause rumble. You don't hear this unless you have a sub. So HP everything but kick and bass and maybe floor tom. Now at what frequency you pass them??? is another story. That is subjective. start a whole new thread for that question
thanks you have been very clear!
Old 14th July 2014
  #16
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Use it on EVERYTHING. I even use it on kick and bass at 27 Hz, though that is probably not necessary.

LD Vocals: 80 Hz
Backing Vocals: 120 Hz
Synths/Keyboards: 80-120 Hz
Guitars: 80-120 Hz
Non-kick drums: 80 Hz
Old 14th July 2014
  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by chainrule View Post
rule of thumb is you use a hpf on everything except kick drum and bass guitar and lower toms.

The purpose of hpf is to eliminate low rumble from instruments that don't require it. Secondly you need to leave space for other instruments. Low frequencies eat up a lot in the spectrum. One could argue you should even hpass kick and bass guitar around 30 -40hz. this is because most playback devices can't recreate these lower frequencies without distortion. Also you should only use a hardware hpf if it is a very high quality unit. Otherwise let everything through while tracking and just do it ITB. Essentially if it doesn't pleasantly and purposely go "boom", high pass it.

Lastly hpf were used slightly differently back in the day because of vinyl. The more bass the more space on the record it would eat up. So engineers went crazy hp everything. that's why older records lack that thick bottom end.

Think of it as a cleanup tool. It can eliminate lower freq rumble/vibration of a mic stand etc..... Guitar amps recorded on the floor cause rumble. You don't hear this unless you have a sub. So HP everything but kick and bass and maybe floor tom. Now at what frequency you pass them??? is another story. That is subjective. start a whole new thread for that question
There you've got it explained in a nutshell!
Old 14th July 2014
  #18
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_Mark's Avatar
I think using HPFs on mics improve headroom for the converters.
Old 19th July 2014
  #19
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Block416's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
LD Vocals: 80 Hz
ITB hpf Or mic 80hz rolloff?
Old 19th July 2014
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mark View Post
I think using HPFs on mics improve headroom for the converters.
That's what I'm thinking! I believe that cutting out unwanted low end makes it easier and more unlikely for the converters to clip! And also if you already know that you're gonna cut it in the box later why not do it right away if you can?

But as we've already mentioned numerous times in this thread you'll have to listen. Some HPF's can cut to much!
Old 20th July 2014
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niklas_J_Blixt View Post
That's what I'm thinking! I believe that cutting out unwanted low end makes it easier and more unlikely for the converters to clip! And also if you already know that you're gonna cut it in the box later why not do it right away if you can?

But as we've already mentioned numerous times in this thread you'll have to listen. Some HPF's can cut to much!
Exactly. If it's being cut anyway, may as well do it right away. Less signal coming in = more headroom.
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