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Music Producers as a career Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 11th March 2014
  #31
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrChery View Post
PLEASE do not take what joeq, vintagelove, and drbill are saying to the heart. Some of what they are saying is true but they're directions are extremely one-way only, which is very close minded advise from them.
Geez, I thought I gave some 2-way advice. I mentioned if he had the passion to call me wrong, to absolutely go for it. But what gave me caution in his original question was that he said he didn't want to live in a studio appartment. That's a huge red flag that the OP in not really willing to make the sacrifices that it will take to get where he wants to go. I could be wrong, but like Joeq said, the OP needs realistic info to make an informed decision. I think he got it. Aside from those who just say "go for it dude"....which is un-realistic. Bottom line : do you take life advice from those who are experienced, who have gone thru it, or do you take advice from those in the same boat as you're in - starting out, shooting for the stars?

Well, a little of both is actually good, but to dismiss those experienced viewpoints as you did is dangerous if you want a long standing career....

Best of luck to all going for it. It's a rocky road....
Old 11th March 2014
  #32
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Geez, I thought I gave some 2-way advice. I mentioned if he had the passion to call me wrong, to absolutely go for it. But what gave me caution in his original question was that he said he didn't want to live in a studio appartment. That's a huge red flag that the OP in not really willing to make the sacrifices that it will take to get where he wants to go. I could be wrong, but like Joeq said, the OP needs realistic info to make an informed decision. I think he got it. Aside from those who just say "go for it dude"....which is un-realistic. Bottom line : do you take life advice from those who are experienced, who have gone thru it, or do you take advice from those in the same boat as you're in - starting out, shooting for the stars?

Well, a little of both is actually good, but to dismiss those experienced viewpoints as you did is dangerous if you want a long standing career....

Best of luck to all going for it. It's a rocky road....
I agree, and im new too, but I have already accepted part of being successful with this is accepting right off the bat that you ARE going to struggle at first..**** maybe for even 10+ years. And Im ready haha.

What are some stable 'side jobs' you could do on the side with an audio engineering degree that can actually give you direct OR indirect experience in the field till your waiting for 'your break'
Old 11th March 2014
  #33
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
Id love to hear some older more experienced guys opinions on what I just said.
I think "breaks" come from personal relationships, not from internet promotion. That's the way I've seen it work - over and over and over - over my tenure in this biz. I may just be out of touch, but internet sensations are a flash in the pan from what I've seen with little staying power long term. Now, you may say the jury is out because the internet is too "young" to know for sure, and you may be right. But the tried and true method of long term success is personal relationships - and those happen face to face. It works on almost ALL facets of business from contracting, to pool cleaning, to investments, to music. Nothing beats friends in the right places.
Old 11th March 2014
  #34
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I think "breaks" come from personal relationships, not from internet promotion. That's the way I've seen it work - over and over and over - over my tenure in this biz. I may just be out of touch, but internet sensations are a flash in the pan from what I've seen with little staying power long term. Now, you may say the jury is out because the internet is too "young" to know for sure, and you may be right. But the tried and true method of long term success is personal relationships - and those happen face to face. It works on almost ALL facets of business from contracting, to pool cleaning, to investments, to music. Nothing beats friends in the right places.
Oh I agree, you cant do it with the internet alone that isn't what I was trying to say. But it is a HUGE tool to getting recognized and possibly making those real life connections that you wouldn't have otherwise. Not to mention the information that is accessible. 15-20 years ago you could never go on a forum and get opinions from people world wide. Or complete step by step detailed guides on how to use a certain DAW, etc etc..

by all means knowledge and promo alone isn't going to do it..but its no denying the internet could and probably does drastically increase the speed of getting to where you want to go compared to if you didn't have the internet.

Im not trying to say technology is making better producers, just that its making it easier for them.
Old 11th March 2014
  #35
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
I agree, and im new too, but I have already accepted part of being successful with this is accepting right off the bat that you ARE going to struggle at first..**** maybe for even 10+ years. And Im ready haha.

What are some stable 'side jobs' you could do on the side with an audio engineering degree that can actually give you direct OR indirect experience in the field till your waiting for 'your break'
You are almost ASSURED to struggle for MORE than 10 years. After 10-15 you might be able to support yourself, but that's not my idea of "success".

Side jobs are as varied as every individual trying to "make it". In my journey I did MANY related things in the music field. I don't know what your end goal is, but I did music editing, music copying, arranging, SFX design, Dialog Editing, running a recording studio, session musician, second engineer, engineering, producing, and on and on. None of those were my "primary" goal though, but they may be YOUR primary goal. I don't know, you haven't said what your goal is. I will say that having a broad range of skills to fall back on has served me well. "Jack of all trades, master of none" is a safer place to be than the BEST guitarist, most TOP CALL engineer, or Producer to the stars is. Those jobs are measured not in the top 3%, but in the top .003 percent, and those who strike out to attain top call status in ANY music related field are shooting in the VERY rarified air. I think if you question most successful people in the music biz, you'll find they did a LOT of musical jobs. If you question the superstars of this biz, you'll find they are individuals with drive and talent and focus far beyond what most of us "successful" individuals have. You will find that they are rare individuals who would not settle for anything other than being a superstar at what their goal was/is. They are individuals who would NOT take on side musical jobs, but instead focused exclusively on their ultimate goal(s). Those are the .003% individuals. That's what it takes to make it to the very top career positions. Getting to that position takes backup IMO. Trust fund, understanding parents, wife with a great job, or the ability to carry on against all odds. Not to mention a freaking wad of luck.

There are many pathways. What's' yours?
Old 11th March 2014
  #36
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
Oh I agree, you cant do it with the internet alone that isn't what I was trying to say. But it is a HUGE tool to getting recognized and possibly making those real life connections that you wouldn't have otherwise. Not to mention the information that is accessible. 15-20 years ago you could never go on a forum and get opinions from people world wide. Or complete step by step detailed guides on how to use a certain DAW, etc etc..

by all means knowledge and promo alone isn't going to do it..but its no denying the internet could and probably does drastically increase the speed of getting to where you want to go compared to if you didn't have the internet.

Im not trying to say technology is making better producers, just that its making it easier for them.
the internet giveth, the internet taketh away. I think 20 years from now you'll find that it's just as hard to make it now in the internet age as it was 30 years ago when the internet was just starting up, and things were done the "old fashioned" way. It's a guess on my part, but it's a pretty informed guess from a guy that's lived thru both paradigms....
Old 11th March 2014
  #37
Lives for gear
 

Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see anyone ask the most important question that absolutely must be answered...

So, to the OP, what type of producer are you interested in becoming:
  • A "classic" producer, who essentially manages the making of a record and who generally has almost total control over the final sound of a record.
  • A beatmaker.
My apologies if I simply missed this question and answer, but I do think it is a rather obvious question...
Old 11th March 2014
  #38
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
Maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see anyone ask the most important question that absolutely must be answered...

So, to the OP, what type of producer are you interested in becoming:
  • A "classic" producer, who essentially manages the making of a record and who generally has almost total control over the final sound of a record.
  • A beatmaker.
My apologies if I simply missed this question and answer, but I do think it is a rather obvious question...
I don't even think half the kids these days even know what a 'classic' producer is. Everyone just wants to make beats lol.

And for DrBill, I guess we just have to wait and see where the industry goes. I think your underestimating the power of something going viral haha. If someone is TRULY good. Youtube is their God if we are just talking about a producer who produces beats. Look at that little Bieber ****head
Old 11th March 2014
  #39
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drBill's Avatar
Beiber didn't go viral without a the huge machinery of a massive record company push. Someone going viral on Youtube, and sustaining a long term "career" in the industry are about as different as you can get. Besides, how does an engineer or producer or recording studio go viral?
Old 11th March 2014
  #40
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Beiber didn't go viral without a the huge machinery of a massive record company push. Someone going viral on Youtube, and sustaining a long term "career" in the industry are about as different as you can get. Besides, how does an engineer or producer or recording studio go viral?
But my point is he never would have got that push if his stuff never would have been noticed on youtube. Lots of new huge artists are only there because of their recognition on youtube. Not to take anything away from the talent, but that's how they got noticed, and that's my point, artists or producers didn't have that luxury 20 years ago

And sorry I kinda sidetracked from talking about studios and engineers and stuff, I was more just referring to a producer who produces his own music when I was talkin about that
Old 11th March 2014
  #41
Gear Head
 
Omnicell's Avatar
 

Not sure why I think I can answer this;

here goes; I don't know anything;;;

Do it anyway!

Have a support group of people to vent and let your feeling out! A group of people that will love you and care about you!

What ever decisions you make, you may feel insecure! And those feelings of terror can stop a direction.

I prey; talk to the God of the Universe who gave me the blue print of my life!

I have a specific temperament! This makes me happy!

If I to be an artist, then I to be an artist first. The rest of the story is; how to be smart about it.

Hating my life, becoming a drunk because Im in a none expressive career is not an answer for me! I end up destroyed and no closer to art!

Your not the only one asking these questions...

So; Talk to God! and listen for the response, and find or have a support group the whole of your life. No one ever does anything alone. The superman concept is for comic books, not real life...

Take what you like and leave the rest; just ideas!
Old 11th March 2014
  #42
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnicell View Post
So; Talk to God! and listen for the response, and find or have a support group the whole of your life. No one ever does anything alone. The superman concept is for comic books, not real life...
So.Tempted. I wont go there haha.

Where are you from? Is English your first language, not being a dick im actually curious, most ppl on here seem like their from the states
Old 11th March 2014
  #43
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
And for DrBill, I guess we just have to wait and see where the industry goes. I think your underestimating the power of something going viral haha. If someone is TRULY good...
Truly good???
Look at what goes viral!

Friday by Rebecca Black
the Numa Numa song
Trololololo
Bed Intruder ("hide your wife/hide your kids")
Chocolate Rain
Pants on the Ground
Obama Girl

If only you could deliberately shoot for this kind of crap. It looks easy. But there are a million tunes just as crappy as these - who the hell knows how or why something goes viral. Sadly the same thing goes for 'good' songs.

You want "viral" success? Marketing muscle seems to work. Dumb luck also seems to work. Does Talent get you there? Drive? Dedication? Who knows? Setting off on a career where your "best hope" is counting on viral success is like seeking a career in buying winning lottery tickets.
Old 11th March 2014
  #44
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
Truly good???
Look at what goes viral!

Friday by Rebecca Black
the Numa Numa song
Trololololo
Bed Intruder ("hide your wife/hide your kids")
Chocolate Rain
Pants on the Ground
Obama Girl

If only you could deliberately shoot for this kind of crap. It looks easy. But there are a million tunes just as crappy as these - who the hell knows how or why something goes viral. Sadly the same thing goes for 'good' songs.

You want "viral" success? Marketing muscle seems to work. Dumb luck also seems to work. Does Talent get you there? Drive? Dedication? Who knows? Setting off on a career where your "best hope" is counting on viral success is like seeking a career in buying winning lottery tickets.
Who said anything about it being the best hope? I am saying its a VERY CONVENIENT FREE marketing tool that reaches EVERYONE in the world, and you cant deny that. Spitting off a bunch of viral videos that are actually **** doesn't change my point whatsoever . I could name a bunch of talented people too who came from youtube but that's not the point here. Youre taking the word Viral to literally I guess. All I meant was if you put a good track on youtube and it gets noticed, there ya go. Couldn't be any easier or any less costly. Justin timberlake, ellen DeGeneres, etc.. they have all signed people to labels based off youtube videos, which 20 years ago would have just been good singers/producers in their basement; assuming they didn't get a big break that was a lot harder back then. Don't take this all as me saying youtube is making it easy, cuz obviously its not easy. But you cant deny my point because its proven over and over. ESPECIALLY with all these Edm producers blowing up out of nowhere. The internet is making it happen. You're still a needle in the haystack obviously (if that even) but once again, you CANT DENY the free exposure that technology is giving upcomers. Any 16 year old with a computer can blow up over night, is it likely? No. But its possible now. And this wasn't about blowing up overnight, simply just that marketing now is a lot easier and faster then it used to be if done right.

and buying lottery tickets involves no skill. im talking about skilled, capable artists who just use what they have and whats new with technology to their advantage
Old 11th March 2014
  #45
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
One could argue that it's actually HARDER to get noticed now that everyone and their mother has a youtube channel and a dozen ****ty videos. But I'll ask again : how does a producer or engineer or recording studio go viral?
Old 11th March 2014
  #46
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
One could argue that it's actually HARDER to get noticed now that everyone and their mother has a youtube channel and a dozen ****ty videos. But I'll ask again : how does a producer or engineer or recording studio go viral?
How could it be harder?
2014-needle in a very large haystack + every thing else
1994-There is no hay stack +everything else

is the market more saturated? Sure. But that doesn't mean the ****ty videos are getting anywhere. And the more talent its saturated with, the more people who 'make it' because of it.

And I already addressed your question up there. You probably just missed it in my big blob of run together sentences haha

edit: post #41 "And sorry I kinda sidetracked from talking about studios and engineers and stuff, I was more just referring to a producer who produces his own music or instrumentals when I was talkin about that" which im assuming is what OP had in mind. Where the hell is OP anyway haha


edit #2: changed my mind, gonna paraphrase something I heard from a chris lorde-ange interview (I posted it in these sections of the forums) "Do every mix to the best of your ability, that mix is like your business card. you may be giving it to a bad band who is going nowhere, but next thing you know they are showing it to someone higher up and they want to hire you"
My point is, as an engineer if a song you mixed makes it big on youtube or even coincidentally gets noticed by someone big, that's YOUR credit, even tho 99+ percent of the population wont know it, the big executive or producer who knows what to listen for will know its the engineer, not the band. They get your info from the uploader and the rest is obvious.
Old 11th March 2014
  #47
Lives for gear
no matter what underlining reasoning behind your dreams (loneliness, insecurity, need for recognition for skills, abusive childhood, need to get laid etc), the thing to keep in mind is that there will never, EVER, be any money in it from this point on.

studios die, labels die, commercial radio dies - digital and the internet to save the world, rendering the all powerful (mickey mouse scam, laughing stock of the arts) music industry to it's knees, forever, amen. you want want a million dollar income as a producer? <DELETED BY MODERATOR>
Old 11th March 2014
  #48
Lives for gear
 

I really hope I don't come off as an [email protected]@hole with this question, I truly don't mean to be and won't criticize anyone for their answer, but here it goes.

For those of you telling the OP to "just go for it". I can't wrap my head around how you can just go for it, and pay rent at the same time.... So the question is...

To those who said just go for it, how many are on some form of public assistance (food stamps, wick, subsidizes housing etc), or have rich parents?

The only thing that makes any rational sense to me, is that those of you who said go for it are 25 or under..... Then again, musicians and rational don't always go together.....

p.s. For those of you who did pursue the dream, what did you do to survive while working your way up the ladder, the OP will definitely need that info if he decides to pursue his dream.

p.p.s. Producing records is not always fun, be prepared to deal with artists crying, playing terribly, or delivering the bad news that somebody just wont cut it. Paying to repair broken gear, showing up for the session and something quits working with the band staring at you like WTF..... etc etc.... Every job has bad days. That being said, making records during the goods times, is pretty enjoyable.
Old 11th March 2014
  #49
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if you're not willing to starve you better go home,
Old 11th March 2014
  #50
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
How could it be harder?
Dwayne - I'm not here to argue with you, and I'll let you have your thoughts and ideas. Just one last comment. It seems completely obvious to me that many here (I won't assume you, I'll let you be the judge of yourself) have hopes and feelings about how they THINK things should be or are going to be or have been for someone ELSE. All from a second hand perspective - as they have not lived it themselves. My thoughts are based completely on impiricle life experience that I have gone thru and have observed - first hand. Up close and personal. Feel free to disregard it if you want to.

And yeah, I'd have to agree with you - WTH is the OP?!?!? If he can't make it thru this thread, no way he's making it an inch down a musical career.....
Old 11th March 2014
  #51
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
p.p.s. Producing records is not always fun, be prepared to deal with artists crying, playing terribly, or delivering the bad news that somebody just wont cut it. Paying to repair broken gear, showing up for the session and something quits working with the band staring at you like WTF..... etc etc.... Every job has bad days. That being said, making records during the goods times, is pretty enjoyable.
Unless the OP is thinking of being the kind of Producer who makes beats, not the kind that supervises recording projects.

Yes, you have to be at some very high level to make money AND pick and choose your own projects. I have had interns who are initially impressed with the 'glamor' of the recording studio. But not every session is a cool Rock Band in their preferred genre. Many grow restless when some 'corny' music they don't like is tonight's session, even when the musicianship is impeccable.

Me, I am grateful for a paying session, even when the musicianship is not so impeccable. Even when there is no music, like a voiceover. SO much better than working in a music store or giving drum lessons to 7-year-olds, IMO. I owe all my Pro Tools chops to those 'uncool' projects.

That's one thing that years of starving and doing 'music-related' work to survive will do - separate out the people who actually love recording from the people who only love recording THEIR kind of music.
Old 11th March 2014
  #52
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
That's one thing that years of starving and doing 'music-related' work to survive will do - separate out the people who actually love recording from the people who only love recording THEIR kind of music.
An often overlooked fact for those starting out. They think every session will be like recording Radiohead....
Old 11th March 2014
  #53
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
If you pass the relevant exams, there are 1000s of hospitals and medical groups looking to hire doctors or nurses. If you have an "MD" or "RN" after your name, you will always be able to find a job somewhere.
You made some good points in your post, but this bit is entirely fictional. Don't lie to the kid. You're not an RN. Just "pass the relevant exams" and presto! 1000s of jobs await? Total, minimizing nonsense. It's tough to find a job at all, never mind the 16 hour night shifts, high patient loads, living a life on call, low salary, no health insurance, and obviously, no respect.

To the OP- there are many many many jobs more difficult to do and harder to pursue than becoming a producer. Don't let the exaggerated war stories dissuade you. Live a life of passion, understand the cost.
Old 11th March 2014
  #54
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwayne7 View Post
How could it be harder?
2014-needle in a very large haystack + every thing else
1994-There is no hay stack +everything else

is the market more saturated? Sure. But that doesn't mean the ****ty videos are getting anywhere. And the more talent its saturated with, the more people who 'make it' because of it.

And I already addressed your question up there. You probably just missed it in my big blob of run together sentences haha

edit: post #41 "And sorry I kinda sidetracked from talking about studios and engineers and stuff, I was more just referring to a producer who produces his own music or instrumentals when I was talkin about that" which im assuming is what OP had in mind. Where the hell is OP anyway haha


edit #2: changed my mind, gonna paraphrase something I heard from a chris lorde-ange interview (I posted it in these sections of the forums) "Do every mix to the best of your ability, that mix is like your business card. you may be giving it to a bad band who is going nowhere, but next thing you know they are showing it to someone higher up and they want to hire you"
My point is, as an engineer if a song you mixed makes it big on youtube or even coincidentally gets noticed by someone big, that's YOUR credit, even tho 99+ percent of the population wont know it, the big executive or producer who knows what to listen for will know its the engineer, not the band. They get your info from the uploader and the rest is obvious.
And the more talent its saturated with, the more people who 'make it' because of it.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you're waaaay off on that one...

Each of us has an amount of money that we plan to spend for entertainment each day/week/month/year/whatever. And with that money we might buy music, or games, or pizza, or we might go to a movie or a ballgame. But for a given person, the way we split our entertainment money tends to be fairly consistent over time. Back in the heyday of the record business, music tended to be a larger "split" than it is now, when there are so many other products competing for a person's entertainment dollar.

A little multiplication will give us the total value of each category, which tends to be fairly static and determines how big the "music pie" is going to be.

Again, back in the heyday of the record business, when music had to make its way through the filters of record companies and radio, there were maybe two dozen artists that made a lot of money. Then there were a large number of artists who were able to make a living with music as their full-time occupation. An even larger number were able to afford a little larger car payment just by playing on weekends. And even the four or five bands in almost every high school could make enough playing music to pay for condoms and beer.

Now, unfortunately, music is a smaller portion of everyone's entertainment budget, and with the down economy, there simply are fewer dollars being spent for music.

Now, thanks to YouTube and the hundreds of other do-it-yourself outlets, and with no record companies or radio to filter out the good from the not-so-good, we have maybe a dozen artists who make a lot of money, and nobody else makes enough money to live on.

Then there is the "saturation effect". It's like the $5 DVD bin at Walmart...nobody ever looks at every DVD in the bin...after a certain period they just stop looking and move on...there are simply too many DVD's to look at.

With so much music coming from so many sources, a lot of people have just said, "to hell with it"...there is just so much music out there that people that people simply don't have the time to wade through all of the garbage to find a gem, and they either quit buying music entirely, or they quit buying "new" music.

So, the artists got what they wanted...no record companies or radio to filter their music, they can put it out and let the people decide, and all too often the people accurately decide a lot of today's music is just garbage...
Old 11th March 2014
  #55
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
A little multiplication will give us the total value of each category, which tends to be fairly static and determines how big the "music pie" is going to be....Now, unfortunately, music is a smaller portion of everyone's entertainment budget, and with the down economy, there simply are fewer dollars being spent for music.
For my college-age students, who I survey every semester on this topic, music is now a ZERO percentage of their entertainment dollar. Literally. Not that they don't listen to music, they most certainly do, it's just that they no longer have to PAY for it. And so they don't. Almost all of them download music from piratical sources like torrents, swap them with their friends, or string together a bunch of YouTubes. People who actually bought CDs or paid on iTunes had been declining for the last decade, but now it's just about no one.

I tell them, when I was your age, I had to PAY for every record in my collection. Bummer, man. But on the plus side, there was a healthy Music Industry that had jobs that I could aspire to work in.
Old 11th March 2014
  #56
Lives for gear
 
bambamboom's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrChery View Post
Im usually a Read only type of person but due to the lack of diverse answers i had to make an account just to reply.
There is a GOOD reason for the lack of diverse answers.

Your advice (and the advice a few others have shared of "just do it" is downright dangerous, packaged in a warm and fuzzy wrapper.

It's so easy to give that sort of advice to someone when you're not the one who will suffer the consequences. Having nothing to fall back on, even if he does decide to take the (huge) risk, is irresponsible and will eventually catch up with him.

A good basic exercise for the OP would be a Business Plan, particularly doing a close examination of competitive analysis. Some of the posts from this thread have already started to discuss this.
How To Write A Business Plan | Entrepreneur.com

If done thoroughly it won't take long for the OP to develop a sense of the reality of this market.
Old 12th March 2014
  #57
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
Dwayne - I'm not here to argue with you, and I'll let you have your thoughts and ideas. .....
that's fine I tried making it clear off the start I didn't wanna argue about it, It just kinda turned into a debate of opinions haha. In my eyes the worlds changing everyday and fast and new websites, etc.. are coming out drastically to help exposure, im more thinking and anticipating into the future when even more accessibility comes with new things. Personally I don't think anyones lived through that 'age' yet. Like I said, total anticipation and no merit, but I think we are just getting to that point and things are going to explode in the next 10 or so years. But that will also fabricate the **** out of everything like it pretty much already is..soo I guess we will see how it goes. With all that being said...continue below
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
And the more talent its saturated with, the more people who 'make it' because of it.

Sorry, but I'm afraid you're waaaay off on that one...

Each of us has an amount of money that we plan to spend for entertainment each day/week/month/year/whatever. And with that money we might buy music, or games, or pizza, or we might go to a movie or a ballgame. But for a given person, the way we split our entertainment money tends to be fairly consistent over time. Back in the heyday of the record business, music tended to be a larger "split" than it is now, when there are so many other products competing for a person's entertainment dollar.

A little multiplication will give us the total value of each category, which tends to be fairly static and determines how big the "music pie" is going to be.

Again, back in the heyday of the record business, when music had to make its way through the filters of record companies and radio, there were maybe two dozen artists that made a lot of money. Then there were a large number of artists who were able to make a living with music as their full-time occupation. An even larger number were able to afford a little larger car payment just by playing on weekends. And even the four or five bands in almost every high school could make enough playing music to pay for condoms and beer.

Now, unfortunately, music is a smaller portion of everyone's entertainment budget, and with the down economy, there simply are fewer dollars being spent for music.

Now, thanks to YouTube and the hundreds of other do-it-yourself outlets, and with no record companies or radio to filter out the good from the not-so-good, we have maybe a dozen artists who make a lot of money, and nobody else makes enough money to live on.

Then there is the "saturation effect". It's like the $5 DVD bin at Walmart...nobody ever looks at every DVD in the bin...after a certain period they just stop looking and move on...there are simply too many DVD's to look at.

With so much music coming from so many sources, a lot of people have just said, "to hell with it"...there is just so much music out there that people that people simply don't have the time to wade through all of the garbage to find a gem, and they either quit buying music entirely, or they quit buying "new" music.

So, the artists got what they wanted...no record companies or radio to filter their music, they can put it out and let the people decide, and all too often the people accurately decide a lot of today's music is just garbage...
great point, not sure if it makes a difference or not but I was never talking about the amount of money someone is going to make, I was more talking about exposure and the ability to get your work out there to be noticed but I guess they tend to go hand in hand. It seems the topic always comes back to money haha. But I guess that's what the general idea of the topic is about so cant complain about that. After about 5 replies I pretty much forgot about the entire Thread topic and started debating what was on my mind haha. Op isn't even here anyway.
Old 12th March 2014
  #58
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
I think "breaks" come from personal relationships, not from internet promotion. That's the way I've seen it work - over and over and over - over my tenure in this biz. I may just be out of touch, but internet sensations are a flash in the pan from what I've seen with little staying power long term. Now, you may say the jury is out because the internet is too "young" to know for sure, and you may be right. But the tried and true method of long term success is personal relationships - and those happen face to face. It works on almost ALL facets of business from contracting, to pool cleaning, to investments, to music. Nothing beats friends in the right places.
WELL SAID!
Old 12th March 2014
  #59
Lives for gear
 
noah330's Avatar
I'm all about doing what you want to do vs what you think is practical.

I went to Berklee and met tons of people all into music. I got my first few breaks through people I met there and I make a good living and do what I love. Sure, it was rough starting out vs someone who just gets a degree in something and goes to work for some company, but I have made a lot more $$$ and am a lot happier then working a 9-5 and earing tan pants and a tennis shirt as a reward on dress down Friday.

Shoot for the stars and follow your dreams. You will never wonder what could have been.
Old 12th March 2014
  #60
Gear Head
 

another thing drBill. I will admit I was over arguing my opinion a bit haha. I totally understand your side of it too but im passionate about this and its what Im going to do hell or high water(not producing just audio in general), anticipating a lot of the hell part. So I was just staying positive, whatever happens I might as well go into it with some hope because Im doing it regardless. But don't get me wrong, im not some naïve kid, I do know the harsh realities of my decision. I still do think the internet is and is becoming even more of a marketing tool every day though.
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