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kick drum eq setting, help Enhancer Plugins
Old 31st August 2011
  #1
Here for the gear
 

kick drum eq setting, help

having so much trouble with the kick today. i use the parametric eq along with the basic track eq.
the kick doesn't have enough punch and low end hitting that i would like for it to...what are some good settings for that?
Old 31st August 2011
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
portishead's Avatar
 

EQ might not be the answer to what you aren't hearing in your kick track. Depends on what you used on the kick and where it was positioned. Below are the "magic frequencies" for kick drum but remember, you can't boost or cut frequencies that aren't in the sound to begin with. I would start with the raw track (with no EQ plugins) and use a spectrum analyzer plugin to see what frequencies are there before bosting/cutting anything. If the frequencies you want are not there, re-record it and play around with mic position/mic choice to get results instead of trying to fix it or else you'll find you will do more damage than good and waste a lot of time.

Bottom - 80 - 100Hz
Hollowness - 400Hz
Point (or beater click) 3000-5000Hz
Old 31st August 2011
  #3
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abechap024's Avatar
 

Sometimes EQ isn't enough, like was said earlier...

Things I try when Kick sounds weak.


Compression

-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound
-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound-sample replace/supplement a good kick sound

copy track LPF and add some distortion
compress
Old 31st August 2011
  #4
Here for the gear
 

what would the difference be in recording with a pillow compared to without a pillow in the kick?
mic just inside the head...compared to just outside the head...
Old 31st August 2011
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
portishead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtyclergy View Post
what would the difference be in recording with a pillow compared to without a pillow in the kick?
mic just inside the head...compared to just outside the head...
A pillow will just dampen the "ring" of the kick. You will still get plenty of bottom end with a pillow just no "sustain".

With a 4" kick hole putting the mic just inside the hole (pointed at the beater) will catch the air rush and give a bit more bottom end.

For more versatility, you can use the 2 mic method, either one inside the kick (usually dynamic) and one outside (usually condenser, large or small) a few inches from the head, or one that really produced a lot of bottom end for me and good beater click was a dynamic just in the hole, then a condenser (pref. small) on the beater side pointing at the contact point with the mic phase reversed.

Another option would be to try and get more of the kick from your overheads and/or room mic.
Old 31st August 2011
  #6
Gear Head
 

+1 on trying compression before EQ, and +1 for the 2 mic setup...I might even take the 2 mic approach a step further and build a kick tunnel with the 2nd condenser mic inside the tunnel

It depends on how the kick sounds naturally as to weather you want to dampen the sustain with a pillow/blanket
Old 31st August 2011
  #7
Gear Nut
 
tyro's Avatar
 

Have you checked phase of kick mic against other mics where you can hear the kick, e.g. overheads? Try soloing all tracks where you can hear the kick, incl the actual kick mic of course, and phase invert the kick track (e.g. with the sonalksis freeG if you don't have any other plug or built in DAW/mixer function to do it) and see if that's hitting better. When phase is more correct relatively against the other mics, the kick sound will be "fuller".

Another thing, as already written, may be to layer in a kick sample in there. Or copy the kick track an lowpass and treat it in various ways.
Old 1st September 2011
  #8
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Dr. Mordo's Avatar
 

I agree with all the comments suggesting that it is best to capture a good sound than to try to fix a weak recording. Also checking for phase problems is a very good idea.

That said, I eq mercilessly until it sounds good. Then I compress as little as possible to smooth it out. It sounds to me like you need to cut more in the 250-400hz area, possibly boost more around 60-75hz.

Don't be afraid the turn the knob as far as it goes as long as it sounds good when you do it. The sound is all that matters.
Old 1st September 2011
  #9
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Old 1st September 2011
  #10
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Best punchiest sound we ever got from a kick.... We had a 50cent coin (Australian) taped to the beater side and thats what the beater hit (sounded horrendous from the outside) then put the mic 2 inches away from the inside skin (no front skin on the drum). The message here? Drums are the funnest instrument to record with experimenting.... Never be content with just sticking the mic infront of the drum
Old 5th September 2011
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtyclergy View Post
having so much trouble with the kick today. i use the parametric eq along with the basic track eq.
the kick doesn't have enough punch and low end hitting that i would like for it to...what are some good settings for that?
In my experience, a lack of low-end punch isn't about EQ settings -- it's about tightening the low end. If it is EQ that's the problem, then I'd suggest rolling off the low end with a filter at 40Hz or so and boosting a few decibels at around 80Hz instead. Compression is unlikely to help, because if anything that tends to rob you of low-end punch. If you want to try it, then I'd go for at least 20-30ms of attack time, as this will let some low end through before the compression closes down. If neither of those get the results you're after, then I'd go for split-band transient processing. You could set this up yourself with Transient Designer and a crossover, or else got for something dedicated like Voxengo Transmodder, Waves TransXMulti, Melda MMultibandTransient, or Soniqware MT1. You can hear some audio examples of this kind of approach in action under the "Multi-band Transient Processing At Mixdown" heading in my free mixing resources.
Old 5th September 2011
  #12
Yeah check your phase first too!
Old 5th September 2011
  #13
Gear Head
 
Toseben's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abna View Post
Best punchiest sound we ever got from a kick.... We had a 50cent coin (Australian) taped to the beater side and thats what the beater hit (sounded horrendous from the outside) then put the mic 2 inches away from the inside skin (no front skin on the drum). The message here? Drums are the funnest instrument to record with experimenting.... Never be content with just sticking the mic infront of the drum
As I don't have drums myself I'm really curious how this would sound. Do you still happen to have sample or even the track of this? Would really appreciate!
Old 5th September 2011
  #14
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TheRealRoach's Avatar
It's so important to get the sound you're after in the room, even before you set up a mic. This goes especially for bass guitar and kick drum. If it doesn't sound good to your ears you should:

- adjust the dampening: many drummers (especially young drummers) over dampen the kick which effectively kills a lot of audible high-freq harmonic information that helps to make the kick cut through in a mix.
- adjust the tuning: mind the key of the song and what range other bass instruments are operating in. A looser, paper-y drum head could be appropriate, or a tighter, more resonant tone might be better depending on the material.
- switch the beater head: hard or soft.
- If the drum is still not matching everyone's vision, then I'd say you need a different kick drum.
- As far as miking goes you can try inside the drum, at the sound hole, and any combination of distances away from the kick. And the decision of dynamic mic, large or small diaphragm, or condenser.

So, take your time in the recording and you won't need to rely on an EQ to compensate for all of the above! Good luck.
Old 6th September 2011
  #15
Gear Addict
 
drumzalicious's Avatar
 

For me to get that clear punchy kick I boost around 30-50. Cut around 100-150 to make room for the bass. After that i kill the cardboard/boxy sound around 400
Old 6th September 2011
  #16
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The right compressor can really squash the transient and bring up the rumble in a kick drum. Experiment with whatever plugs/hardware compressors you have, something may work wonders.

If the drum is just anemic and can't be fixed/replaced, I've used the waves maxxbass plug to fix kicks w/o meat. Creates new low-frequency harmonics. If you have the plug, it's generally faster to set up than anything else.

Depending on what you have, either of the above or replacing with a sampled kick may be easiest. If eq is your only option, yeah you can boost real low (30-40hz), but if there's no information down there, it won't do much (0dB+12dB=0dB).

Best of luck,

Derek
Old 9th September 2011
  #17
Gear Nut
 
MrTinkle's Avatar
 

Some very good advice here, + 1 for compression before EQ also.

What I like to do is roll of anything below 42hz and sometimes above 10k (depending on the kick sound you want) so those frequency's don't affect the compressor. Then compress the kick track and add EQ last.

50hz - 100hz Boosting between these: Lower = bigger Upper = more rounded.

Sometimes cut around 118hz - 200hz by about -1 to -5db to keep this area under control but not too much or you'll lose some body.

Problem areas are from I tend to find are from 230hz - 400hz so if you need to cut out that card board *puhh* sound sweep around to find. I like cutting around 270hz or 340hz but again, always different depending on the kick. Normally just cutting around this area will open up the kick sound and you don't need to do too much after that.

800hz - 1.3k Sometimes I like to boost these, with some kicks you can get a nice wooden poke sound.

2k - 6k presence and attack around those areas.

12k for some nice air.

Best thing to do is just listen to the kick track and listen for any horrible resonating frequency, really shrill slap, or flat dull sounds.

A good habit to get into is cutting rather than boosting, another good habit is check the level of your kick before doing anything. Then after EQing (with a plugin say) to lower the output to match the original unprocessed level. So when you A/B between on and off settings you'll hear the difference in tone and make the correct decisions.

A massive mistake people tend to make is EQing, compressing, etcc... is they think because it's louder it sounds better. What you'll find is if you match the output of the EQ (or what ever you're using) to what the original signal was then turn it off you'll hear the original untreated sound was better to start with...
Old 9th September 2011
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Well it really depends on what ur looking for. A little trick I like to do is:

EQ the **** out of the kick first (subtractive Eq) to get the type of sound I'm looking for. I usually high pass at around 50Hz and boost at around 80 (slightly)

Then I add a harmonic exciter to add a little more low end

Then I use a clipper and clip the drums slightly, and boost the gain. (should make ur kick sound really fat and wide)

Then I compress to make it pop in the mix.

Then finally, I eq it to get the final sound. At this stage I'm usually adding some upper mids along with making the low end a little bit more tighter. Works like a charm!

But then again it's all about what u want. That is kinda like my "thick heavy thud/snap" type of kick.

Hope this helps
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