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Balanced cable with TS Jack
Old 28th May 2020
  #1
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Balanced cable with TS Jack

Hi,

I have an abundance of cable that is made for balanced/stereo jacks - it has two conductors plus the screen/ground.

I will be using it mainly for soldering together some balanced TRS patch cables but I also need a few unbalanced TS cables too.

Is it reasonable to expect that I could us the same cable with TS jacks and either solder both of the conductors to core or perhaps only solder one of them and find some way to leave the other unused (perhaps sealing any exposed wire with some plastic) ?
Old 29th May 2020
  #2
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BT64's Avatar
No problem.
Solder both conductors to tip.
Old 29th May 2020
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
No problem.
Solder both conductors to tip.
Excellent - thank you!

Interestingly, I found a similar thread after I posted this one:

Balanced cable with TS connectors

The OP had the same question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by txbdan View Post
When doing so and making an unbalanced TS cable, how do you wire up the TS connector? Do you double up conductors to the Tips or leave one conductor floating?
The answer given by the venerable Mr Crowley was this..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
One of the inner conductors connects to the Tip, and the other connects to the Sleeve (along with the shield)

I'm not sure I understand the difference between joining both conductors to tip vs one conductor to tip and the other with ground to the sleeve. In my head they seem equivalent since in both scenarios you essentially only have to connections. I am likely wrong though :P

Can you see how the two configurations are different?
Old 29th May 2020
  #4
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BT64's Avatar
Non are wrong. If one side is balanced I could see that connecting one conductor to the sleeve is smart.
In your case putting both conductors to tip is just less resistance for the tip signal.
But putting one conductor (on both sides) to sleeve will work to.
Old 29th May 2020
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
Non are wrong. If one side is balanced I could see that connecting one conductor to the sleeve is smart.
In your case putting both conductors to tip is just less resistance for the tip signal.
But putting one conductor (on both sides) to sleeve will work to.
Ok, that's interseting. So if I was connecting an unblanaced synth to a balanced patchbay I would be best off wiring the cable differently at each end?

On the end that will be plugged into the synth - connect one conductor to tip and the other to sleeve with the ground. (TS Jack)

On the end that will be plugged into the patchbay - solder a balanced TRS jack?
Old 29th May 2020
  #6
Old 29th May 2020
  #7
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BT64's Avatar
Perhaps this will interest you.
https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_ar...p?article=2107

Ha ha, to late.
Old 29th May 2020
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robo View Post

But in 14, on the TS side, the shield is floating and not connected to sleeve with one of the conductors.

Now i'm more confused
Old 29th May 2020
  #9
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BT64's Avatar
If you have no problems with ground loops you could connect the shield to the sleeve on unbalanced side.
Old 29th May 2020
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
If you have no problems with ground loops you could connect the shield to the sleeve on unbalanced side.
Alright, thanks - sounds like I will just have to experiment a bit to find out what will work best. Luckily it's simple to make these changes.

Thanks for all the help I really appreciate it - there is a wealth of information online about this kind of thing but there is also a wealth of $hite so it can be hard to evaluate.
Old 29th May 2020
  #11
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lectrojape View Post
But in 14, on the TS side, the shield is floating and not connected to sleeve with one of the conductors.

Now i'm more confused
14 is a configuration to take a balanced output into an unbalanced input (or vice-versa) while -not- maintaining a common ground connection between the two devices. This allows you to keep from creating ground loops.

The Rane app note is a great, great reference... but it does not describe the actual configuration that the original poster has: TS to TS but using 2-conductor twisted-pair cable.

The best way of doing this (and there are plenty of ways that -work- but this is the best) is to connect the two signal wires to T and S on each end, and to connect the cable shield to S on one end while leaving it floated on the other end. This means that you have continuity from T to T and continuity from S to S, and all of the current is passing through the twisted pair so magnetically-induced noise is at least partially cancelled out. The shield is connected to ground on one end so it's effective against electrically-induced noise, and no signal is flowing through the shield (as would happen if you tied it on both ends).

Now... that said... good shielded twisted pair is a lot more expensive than single wire shielded cable... so you might want to just get some single conductor cable for your T-S cords and save the twisted pair for when you need it, because sooner or later you're going to need a lot of it for something.
--scott
Old 29th May 2020
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
The Rane app note is a great, great reference... but it does not describe the actual configuration that the original poster has: TS to TS but using 2-conductor twisted-pair cable.
Thank you - that was indeed my original question you have answered

...but I did actually wonder about how to connect an unbalanced source to a balanced patchbay too.

Given that I have both TS and TRS jacks along with 2-Conductor shielded cable would you recommend making up the connections as described in number 14 of Ranes reference paper? Or is it perfectly OK to plug in to the patch bay with the pseudo TS to TS cable?
Old 29th May 2020
  #13
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Robo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
Perhaps this will interest you.
https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_ar...p?article=2107

Ha ha, to late.
Sorry! Just pipped ya there :D
Old 29th May 2020
  #14
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Robo's Avatar
You're right, I probably shouldn't have said 'yep' there, that was a bit confusing, I just really was answering the later question about unbalanced to balanced connections.

Cheers!
Old 1st June 2020
  #15
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lectrojape View Post
Given that I have both TS and TRS jacks along with 2-Conductor shielded cable would you recommend making up the connections as described in number 14 of Ranes reference paper? Or is it perfectly OK to plug in to the patch bay with the pseudo TS to TS cable?
I'm not sure what you're asking here.

The patch cords that you use on the patchbay are TRS to TRS, and presumably long-frame plugs instead of "guitar style" short-frame. The cables that go from the back of the patchbay to the equipment can be 2-conductor for TRS inputs and outputs or single-conductor for TS inputs and outputs. If the back of the patchbay has TRS jacks like you describe the easiest solution might be to just use TS to TRS with the shield floated at the patchbay end so that the unbalanced signal sources get their ground broken at the patchbay.

A lot of it depends on how you are laying your patchbay system grounds out and what kind of connections you have in the back of the patchbay.
--scott
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