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How reverb processors achieve their stereo spread?
Old 20th February 2020
  #1
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How reverb processors achieve their stereo spread?

What kinds of things are going on behind the scenes when reverb processors take a mono input and outputs nice wide stereo tails?

I'm asking because sometimes I use delay instead of reverb to add some space to a group of mono tracks, and I like the result, but i'd like some left-right reverb-like differences. I've tried duplicating the delay, panning to the extremes and delaying a bit one of the duplicated delays(basically haas delay the delay for some spread), and I like the outcome, but theres an asymmetrical stereo feeling that I don't like and I feel I can do better. I'm not trying to recreate a reverb with delay, but I'd like the left and right to feel less towards one side.

Any tip?
Old 20th February 2020
  #2
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skillz335's Avatar
phase. it can be as simple as splitting the mono signal and inserting an EQ on one of the channels
Old 20th February 2020
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarnsanchez View Post
What kinds of things are going on behind the scenes when reverb processors take a mono input and outputs nice wide stereo tails?

I'm asking because sometimes I use delay instead of reverb to add some space to a group of mono tracks, and I like the result, but i'd like some left-right reverb-like differences. I've tried duplicating the delay, panning to the extremes and delaying a bit one of the duplicated delays(basically haas delay the delay for some spread), and I like the outcome, but theres an asymmetrical stereo feeling that I don't like and I feel I can do better. I'm not trying to recreate a reverb with delay, but I'd like the left and right to feel less towards one side.

Any tip?
Talk about a wide open subject :>)
I pretty much passed on getting into Haas delays after sussing it out.
You might start with this-
'Short delays -less than about 20MS tend to be heard as 'part of the source. Therefore they tend to -and can be used to smear' and/or spread the image -depth if mono, or width 'stereo.
In a verb these might be discreet delays as part or in addition to the later decay, or defuse reflection like patterns.
If the source doesn't have transients (for our ears to cue in to), that time can extend out (-30 -50ms?) before transitioning from 'spread and 'attached to 'delay effects.
Some of the manuals of earlier Lexicon rigs are great sources that actually do a good job getting into this stuff. :>)
Old 20th February 2020
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne View Post
Talk about a wide open subject :>)
I pretty much passed on getting into Haas delays after sussing it out.
You might start with this-
'Short delays -less than about 20MS tend to be heard as 'part of the source. Therefore they tend to -and can be used to smear' and/or spread the image -depth if mono, or width 'stereo.
In a verb these might be discreet delays as part or in addition to the later decay, or defuse reflection like patterns.
If the source doesn't have transients (for our ears to cue in to), that time can extend out (-30 -50ms?) before transitioning from 'spread and 'attached to 'delay effects.
Some of the manuals of earlier Lexicon rigs are great sources that actually do a good job getting into this stuff. :>)
How about volume modulation between left and right? I've noticed in the peak meters that reverbs seem to be sort of modulating the volume a tiny bit so that is never static towards one side. Am i hearing modulation or maybe what I see in the meters is the byproduct of something else behind the scenes? I wonder
Old 20th February 2020
  #5
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GYMusic's Avatar
What I find with using reverb processors is that when you collapse a great stereo mix into mono, the reverb tends to diminish. Even if you listen to the stereo mix with one ear plugged and hit the "mono" switch.
Old 21st February 2020
  #6
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarnsanchez View Post
What kinds of things are going on behind the scenes when reverb processors take a mono input and outputs nice wide stereo tails?
I think the better algorithmic reverbs calculate reflections for both sides in a sense independently, and also allow for some cross-talk between channels.

The parameters are the shape of the space, the dimensions, the material of the walls, and possibly more. So a good algorithm will take all of that into account. Even if a space is 100% symmetrical and the signal is dead-center I would imagine that the programmer either makes the space actually not symmetrical or introduces some amount of randomization.

Either way, what you don't want is simply a delay on one side or simply an EQ. That won't be enough.

I remember a few years back when I listened to a few surround reverbs and started off comparing them in stereo mode. They all sounded good. But once I moved to 5.1 surround the difference was tremendous. Only one of the reverbs I tried actually calculated unique reflections for all channels, whereas the others didn't. They must have used perhaps the same algorithm + a slight delay or slight EQ change or something because I got not even close to the same sense of space and detail and smoothness.

Incidentally this was Phoneixverb by Exponential Audio, which I HIGHLY recommend (or the other reverbs more suitable for music).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarnsanchez View Post
I'm asking because sometimes I use delay instead of reverb to add some space to a group of mono tracks, and I like the result, but i'd like some left-right reverb-like differences. I've tried duplicating the delay, panning to the extremes and delaying a bit one of the duplicated delays(basically haas delay the delay for some spread), and I like the outcome, but theres an asymmetrical stereo feeling that I don't like and I feel I can do better. I'm not trying to recreate a reverb with delay, but I'd like the left and right to feel less towards one side.

Any tip?
Not sure. Keep trying with different combinations of tools? How about you feed your delayed signal(s) into a reverb? Or vice versa?

How about using the above method but using one reverb per side? Same preset? Different settings?

And so on.
Old 21st February 2020
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Incidentally this was Phoneixverb by Exponential Audio, which I HIGHLY recommend (or the other reverbs more suitable for music).



Not sure. Keep trying with different combinations of tools? How about you feed your delayed signal(s) into a reverb? Or vice versa?
That did the trick. it took more tweaking, but worked

I'll try Phoenix verb. Based on the demos I've heard it does sound really good. And the interface is arranged nicely. Thanks!

Any other reverb recommendation for music production?
Old 21st February 2020
  #8
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesarnsanchez View Post
That did the trick. it took more tweaking, but worked

I'll try Phoenix verb. Based on the demos I've heard it does sound really good. And the interface is arranged nicely. Thanks!

Any other reverb recommendation for music production?
The programmer made lexicon products in the past, and I think the music line of reverb started with "r2". They're a bit less accurate and natural and more lush and musical, if that makes sense.

Current high end products are status and symphony. Not sure which one builds on R2. More possible processing on them.

You can find them on izotope's site.
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