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How Cringe-Worthy is my amp for recording metal? (Orange Crush 30r)
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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How Cringe-Worthy is my amp for recording metal? (Orange Crush 30r)

I've been recording guitar using heavy distortion and I'm not getting the sound that I would like (basically it's messy, and doesn't cut through the mix the way I'd like). I've been messing around with different things (EQ, compression, different pedals, etc) but I'm starting to think maybe I'm wasting my time and I really just need a better amp. I know the one I'm using isn't great (Orange Crush 30r) but I don't want to replace it unless I can get something that will make a major difference without spending too much (500$ or less). I know nothing about guitar amps so basically I need to know if it's possible to make a somewhat professional sounding recording with this amp. If anyone here could help me I would really appreciate it.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Not my genre, but it seems obvious that you need to provide more information. The amp may or may not be the largest part of your problem. What microphone or microphones are you using. Distance and orientation of mic to amp? What kind of space are you in?
That’s on the back end of the process. On the front end, what guitar, what pickups, what pedals and how are they set?
As to the amp, does it sound good in the room but not record well, or does it also sound wrong in the room?
What are your settings on the amp?
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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I'm almost positive that it's not the mic. I'm using an Sm57 (with a fethead) as close to the amp as I could get it without touching. It's going into a Steinberg UR22 soundcard. I'm a bedroom that I've turned into a home studio, I've covered around a 1/4th of the wall space with studio foam. I don't know what kind of pickups I have but the guitar I'm using is an Ibanez RQ series (7 string). All the eq knobs on the amp are set at 12 o'clock. I've mainly been using a zoom multi-effect pedal for the distortion but I've also tried using the Boss Hm-2. They sound okay to me in the room but when put into a mix they fall flat.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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The UR22 is not a soundcard, it’s an interface (which doesn’t matter in what we’re writing about, but using standard terms helps people understand you).
Have you tried the 57 without the Fethead? On a guitar amp up close, the interface should have plenty of gain If you turn it up. The Fethead presents a higher impedance to the microphone than does the interface preamp. The two choices will sound a little different and you may prefer one to the other.
With a 57 close up, the room won’t be much of a factor in the overall sound.
All the EQ at 12:00 sounds like a safe starting position, but you should roll those knobs around and see if there are settings that get you closer to the sound you want.
If you post a short clip of your playing it would help others to help dial you in.

Last edited by Bushman; 1 week ago at 04:25 AM.. Reason: Spelling
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Oh okay, I thought it was the same thing. I've tried it without the fedhead, doesn't seem to make much of a difference. The song I'm playing really only has one riff throughout so I'm just recording it twice and panning one to each side (not sure if this is something people do but I tried just one down the middle and it didn't sound good). My timing is okay but not perfect so maybe a small difference in the two tracks is making it muddy? I can get them to sound better by adding some effects in my DAW, to a point where it actually sounds decent if you use headphones but it falls apart when played on speakers. I've tried mixing in mono as well but I just can't make it work. This is what one track sounds like without any added effects, it's pretty awful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_BiTP1DMow
Like I said I tried improving it in my DAW but I can only do so much and I'm wondering if the problem is the amp.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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The clip sounds very muddy and unclear. Combined with other tracks it will be even less clear. I like the basic distortion, but I would lighten up a lot on any other effects, and turn the bass down or the mids and highs up.
I don’t think the amp is the problem. That amp gets consistently good reviews for recording, but not for live (too small for a lot of genres). You seem to have learned the guitar, now you need to learn amplifiers. This amp is a good place to start. If you can’t ride a bicycle, buying a different bicycle won’t solve your problem. It’s a little like that.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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It would be nice to have a Mesa Dual but there's nothing inherently wrong with your gear. Capturing the sound you want is a combination of many things and once it's captured making it all work as mix is also a combination of many things. When recording "heavy" material cranking everything up is an impulse that's hard to resist, especially when it's the instrument you play! You're playing a 7 string, a low freq. riff and have a lot of distortion which all compounds yielding the result you're hearing. Reduce the distortion and low end EQ, you can always add more. I assume you'll have bass and drums and perhaps lead guitar as well? All of these will contribute to punch and definition of the mix as a whole. Also read the thread titled Masking?
Old 1 week ago
  #8
Quote:
I know nothing about guitar amps so basically I need to know if it's possible to make a somewhat professional sounding recording with this amp. If anyone here could help me I would really appreciate it.
Yes, of course you can. you can make professional sounds whit a 25 cent kazoo.

'Professional sounding' is relative to everything and nothing. Its all about personnel preferences.
A pro sound can be everything, a fart can be a pro sound..

Example: A LO-FI sounding muddied up guitar can be the right sound in a profession production, if that is the sound that you prefer and the sound that fits in the arrangement and mix.

If you cannot get your guitar to sound good in the mix, the way you prefer to have it sound, it is most likely the recording techniques and mixing techniques you are using.
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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Ok, thanks everyone for your input. I'll turn down the low end and keep playing around with it.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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First step-- does it sound the way you want in the room? If so, then you only need to work on how to capture what you're hearing better.

Mic touching the grille is going to give you proximity effect/increased lows at the expense of clarity. Backing it off a little bit (start with 1") should help to clear things up.

Listen to the "position 1-4" clips on this article on SM57 placement and see if you can imagine any of these movements helping shift the sound you're getting closer to what you'd like to hear.

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/im...t-guitar-amps/
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing View Post
it actually sounds decent if you use headphones but it falls apart when played on speakers. I've tried mixing in mono as well but I just can't make it work.
So this is pointing at it possibly being a phase issue. If each guitar sounds stronger by itself, but noticeably weakened when doubling, one or more of the following strategies may help:

Use a different guitar and/or distortion pedal for guitar #2 , if you happen to have another of either of these things handy.

Capo the guitar at the first fret and tune it down to the original tuning. This will let you use your same guitar but it won't be the same scale-length so the tone won't be identical.

Play the second riff with different voicings. Example 5th-string-root shapes instead of 6th-string-root. This will put you in a different place on the neck and will complement rather than double exactly the existing track.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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eternalsound's Avatar
OP: Dude, that is some HUGE (HUGE) sound there. Are you by chance jumping on a huge metal floored trampoline ..into your amp to get that ??

Just kidding.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
OP: Dude, that is some HUGE (HUGE) sound there. Are you by chance jumping on a large metal trampoline ..into your amp to get that ??
I think your audition for audio comedy writing has drifted into the weeds.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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eternalsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I think your audition for audio comedy writing has drifted into the weeds.
I know - I could not get off the floor laughing at that one!

BUT!! You're insulting me. :(

That's OK though because now I'm in the weeds with ...Bush ....Man??


And for my next one!!: 828mk3/UR22/UR824!!



Or was that ....yours??



See, you too could be quite the cut-up if you took some options!



Old 6 days ago
  #15
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I checked the phase meter in my DAW, doesn't appear to be the problem. Let me show you all the whole mix so you can see what I mean when I say it sounds okay in stereo but not in mono. This is what I'm currently working with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emsXac25Vw

It's the same guitar track I posted above, but it's alongside another guitar track and has a bunch of EQ and other effects that I've added to it (plus drums and bass). On headphones it sounds pretty good to me, but when I play it in mono or on speakers the guitars just sound like a bunch of static.

I thought maybe my headphones were just lying to me and the problem was my amp since I knew the original guitar track didn't sound very good before I put effects on it, but I guess that's not it. I'll try moving the mic around and messing with the EQ on the amp tomorrow.
Old 6 days ago
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eternalsound View Post
OP: Dude, that is some HUGE (HUGE) sound there. Are you by chance jumping on a huge metal floored trampoline ..into your amp to get that ??
No, but I might consider trying that soon. I've played that riff so many times I'm gonna start humming it in my sleep.
Old 6 days ago
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idkwhatimdoing View Post
I checked the phase meter in my DAW, doesn't appear to be the problem. Let me show you all the whole mix so you can see what I mean when I say it sounds okay in stereo but not in mono. This is what I'm currently working with:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0emsXac25Vw

It's the same guitar track I posted above, but it's alongside another guitar track and has a bunch of EQ and other effects that I've added to it (plus drums and bass). On headphones it sounds pretty good to me, but when I play it in mono or on speakers the guitars just sound like a bunch of static.

I thought maybe my headphones were just lying to me and the problem was my amp since I knew the original guitar track didn't sound very good before I put effects on it, but I guess that's not it. I'll try moving the mic around and messing with the EQ on the amp tomorrow.
I’m not near speakers so I can’t listen at the moment, but what you’re describing hearing is phase interaction/comb-filtering type stuff. If you’ve panned the guitars, you wouldn’t hear it in headphones because the L/R are totally isolated from each other, but in mono and in speakers you would. I don’t know if what I’m describing would cause a phase meter to show cancellation, but if you try messing with a phase correction plug on one, or slightly moving the waveform and that changes the frequencies you’re hearing, then you’ll see what I mean.
Old 3 days ago
  #18
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So in case anyone is wondering or someone finds this thread in the future, I think I've found a large part of my problem. I've been paying a lot more attention to the exact frequencies on my recordings, and I'm realizing that there are a lot more peaks and troughs on mine that there are in other songs that I've looked at. I think I need to balance out the frequencies better, which seems obvious, but it became more apparent to me when I looked at a frequency analysis graph and saw the difference between my song and others I had downloaded. Particularly, I have too much bass, and there's a small spike between 3-5k hertz that I think is causing the static sound I'm hearing. As you all said, it's not my equipment.
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