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Panning,M/S compression or what?
Old 5 days ago
  #1
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Panning,M/S compression or what?

Hi there... I just wanted to ask how to get that center and side big separation that can be found often in rock records.

Blink 182, Greenday, Soundgarden... that type of sound comes to my mind.

Maybe is not a perfect way to explain myself but when listening to that music in my monitors I feel like if there was a third monitor right in the centre with just kick and snare, bass and main vocals. And then in L&R monitors you hear guitars, pads, backing vocals and all that stuff... The point is that I feel that just panning is not the way.
In the songs I want to emulate, electric guitars on the sides sound huge and seem to be "out of the speakers" while that "center monitor" sounds so mono, narrow and tight.

I´ve tried to hard pan guitars and all stereo information and send it to a stereo bus... and then send all my kick, snare, bass and main vocal to a mono bus and compress the hell out of it.
It comes close, but not getting right where I want them to be.

Hug to you all.
Old 5 days ago
  #2
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Owen L T's Avatar
One thing to look at is the low frequency content of anything you have hard-panned L/R. There's a wide range of views on the use of high-pass filters, from "do it only when you need to" (always sound mixing advice), to "everything has low frequency content you don't need, so do it on everything" (also basically true, though more likely to be misused). For me, though, when something is hard-panned, then anything below 200-ish can begin to mess with your phantom center - so I'd be more inclined to hi-pass, and at a higher frequency than if the instrument was sitting somewhere in the middle. BUT, rather than get super agressive with the HPF, you could set one at, say 80-100 Hz (so, fairly conservative), then use something like FabFilter ProQ, or any EQ with M/S capabilities, and set a second, more aggressive HPF on the sides only, up around 200-250 for guitars and keys. A super light-weight tool for this, specifically, is Boz labs Mongoose. Very fast to dial in. An instance of that at its default setting on every panned track would clear your middle right up.
Old 5 days ago
  #3
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One technique to get elements “beyond the speakers” is to, in addition to hardpanning, create an additional identical channel, flip polarity on that channel, and add a little of it hardpanned to the opposite channel.
Two things... first, note that I said A LITTLE. It is easy to overdo this and not realize it until a new calendar year. It’s like the first truly magical reverb you find. It seduces you into out-reverbing the 1980s (which is so hard to do).
Second, I am not saying that any of the recordings you like used this technique, and I have no knowledge that they did, but it’s another dangerous tool to add to your tool belt. But be careful, newbies have lost fingers trying this.
Old 4 days ago
  #4
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Hey there again... thanks so much for both replies.
I've already tried to give a noticeable high pass filter to my stereo bus... around 120hz or so...
And regarding to phase flip.... That's something interesting but the thing is that I play in a cover band (you know; weddings, parties and all that) and 80% of what I mix are band demos to send to clients. So I'm afraid most of them will quick listen to them in their cellphones or tablets. That said I know I should not bother too much about panning, good mixing and stereo width... but I can help it. If just one or two people are going to listen in a proper scenario, I want it to sound as good as I am able. (And of course, for my own satisfaction...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHXRxs1TSXY

This is not the best example maybe. This is a "More than a feeling" cover we recorded recently at our rehearsing studio. Not the best gear and not the best sounding room maybe... but I always try to get that stereo separation I'm talking about . Lead voice could have used a little more volume I think...

Greetings and thanks so much again.
Old 4 days ago
  #5
Quote:
The point is that I feel that just panning is not the way.
You are correct in feeling that way. A lot of those mixes were mixed in such a way to make it sound like its in 3D and its done with placing instruments 100% back left, 100% back right, 80% middle left, 80% middle right, Front left, front right, back center, front center, middle center and so on.

How the mixing engineer does this is with a few different tools, like Reverb, Delays, Mid and Side EQ edits, using the Send pans, Bus pans and Track Pan knobs (of course)
Old 4 days ago
  #6
It’s going to be very hard to get that tight center with a bunch of live mics in the room.
Old 4 days ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Martinez View Post
This is a "More than a feeling" cover Lead voice could have used a little more volume I think
Thanks for posting this. I agree that the lead vocal is not loud enough in some parts. Also a little “pitchy” on a few bits. She has a good range to sing that song convincingly.
As a whole, it is a very good cover. The guitar that is not a Gibson sounds great on the picky parts but the type of distortion doesn’t sound right on the chords. The BG vocals are 1980s chartworthy. The snare... it must be me, I dislike almost every snare I’ve heard since August.
It looks live... how much was overdubbed?
I think the huge, wide 80s verb is what you need to add. Or is it 70s?
Old 2 days ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
Thanks for posting this. I agree that the lead vocal is not loud enough in some parts. Also a little “pitchy” on a few bits. She has a good range to sing that song convincingly.
As a whole, it is a very good cover. The guitar that is not a Gibson sounds great on the picky parts but the type of distortion doesn’t sound right on the chords. The BG vocals are 1980s chartworthy. The snare... it must be me, I dislike almost every snare I’ve heard since August.
It looks live... how much was overdubbed?
I think the huge, wide 80s verb is what you need to add. Or is it 70s?
Thanks for your feedback...
That was mixed in Logic, and now I'm remixing it from scratch in Mixbus 32c... I know the problem in sound is not the daw but for some reason I feel more confident when mixing in Mixbus. I´ll change the audio for that youtube video soon if I get to make it sound any better.

The "guitar that is not a Gibson" is my guitar (that's me) and it is a cheap Chinese guitar (Sx) loaded with Fender custom shop pickups. I play it trough a Helix LT pedalboard and I'm still dealing to get the best sound out of it. I get distracted by so many amps and pedals emulations to choose from

¿What happened in August that makes you dislike every snare you hear? I know this is not the best of snare sound at all... I got to much hihat bleeding so I also put a second track triggering a SSD5 snare sample, but quite subtle.

"It looks live... how much was overdubbed?" : We recorded all instruments live in one take as well as the lead and background vocals.... but then we notice that vocal tracks were a cymbals and lows complete mess... so vocal tracks are the only overdubbed ones in this recording.

Thanks so much again for your time and feedback.
Old 2 days ago
  #9
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What happened in August that makes you dislike every snare you hear?

I tend to focus (or obsess) on specific things to a degree that interferes with listening to the mix as a whole. I think it may be a fairly common problem.
The spaceship aliens have insisted that I say nothing about what happened in August.
Old 2 days ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
The spaceship aliens have insisted that I say nothing about what happened in August.
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