The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
How to create a dynamic eq with hardware?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
How to create a dynamic eq with hardware?

Hi boys, sorry for the trivial question but I would like to use my hardware gears to create a dynamic eq and tame some difficult frequencies on the voice (especially the annoying mid ones, in shouted parts) directly during the recording, so I don't have to act heavily in mix.

I tried to do it with plugs but I have latency problems. So I decided to try to use solid gears.

I thought to insert the hardware eq on a "test" vocal track already recorded (into ProTools), so I can identify the frequencies to be corrected.
Then I would to connect everything and sing a new vocal part (being careful to do it similar to "test"), going through this type of "corrective equalization", which must work ONLY on those precise frequencies (and not on the rest of the track).
The problem is that I don't know how to connect the gears...

I think to do it as follow (please correct me if I say bull****s!!):

1) Mic to preamp
2) preamp out to compressor in
3) compressor out to converter in
4) parametric eq out to compressor sidechain in.

Is it right?
But in this way, the eq is completely disconnected from the chain (except for sidechain cable).... Or is the trick done only by the compressor and the eq does not participate?

Can you please help me to understand how to connect all?
I have a serie 500 pre, a Symetrix 425 (with sidechain) and a serie 500 parametric eq (Midas 512)

Thanks and sorry for my bad english!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Quote:
I tried to do it with plugs but I have latency problems. So I decided to try to use solid gears.

I thought to insert the hardware eq on a "test" vocal track already recorded (into ProTools), so I can identify the frequencies to be corrected.
Going in and out of the digital realm will give you way more latency than using a plugin effect.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Mastering View Post
Going in and out of the digital realm will give you way more latency than using a plugin effect.

I won't go in and out, because i want to do it during record!
What I wrote above, is just an example, for finding bad frequencies and for setting the eq.
When I found the right setting for the eq, I want to use it during the record (no latency)

I hope I explained myself
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Guru
 

Send your test track out of Pro Tools into your EQ and back into PT again. Tweak until you have the EQ adjustment you want.

Then connect the EQ between the Preamp and the Compressor.. or after the compressor. But not in the sidechain.

Having said that I recommend doing it in software instead.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
EvilRoy's Avatar
 

Weird. I was looking at my Hush unit today wondering how I would duplicate it with a compressor/parallel processing etc. Always found a dynamic EQ less abrupt than a noise gate for NR. Now you have me thinking about other uses.

I suppose you use a parametric and goose the frequencies in a compressor’s side chain, like de-essing without using the ess frequency. Still fuzzy on this.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Send your test track out of Pro Tools into your EQ and back into PT again. Tweak until you have the EQ adjustment you want.

Then connect the EQ between the Preamp and the Compressor.. or after the compressor. But not in the sidechain.

Having said that I recommend doing it in software instead.
Thanks for your answer, but in this way, the eq will come on the entire track and not just on undesirable frequency.
And do it with plug (during the take) means to have latency...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonluka View Post
Thanks for your answer, but in this way, the eq will come on the entire track and not just on undesirable frequency.
I get the feeling that you've got this a bit 'backwards'.

Putting the EQ on your actual signal instead of the sidechain will act on all frequencies that you have EQed in that signal. So if that's what you mean by "entire track" then you're right.

But it will be on only the undesirable frequency if that's how you dial in your EQ. It's just that it's a consistent amount of cut on that frequency.

However, sidechain only triggers compression, it doesn't isolate frequencies for compression.

If you put an EQ in the sidechain then what you're doing is pushing different frequencies so that they are more responsible for triggering the actual compression circuit, but that circuit still acts on the entire signal when it is compressing. So you can for example push a region that contains your "s" sound - in the sidechain - and that way the compressor will trigger on those sounds earlier. That might be ok to more or less de-ess your signal, but if you're looking to compress for example just 300-400Hz then it might not work out for you, because at the same time as those frequencies exist you're likely to have a bunch of higher frequencies as well... and they'll all get compressed.

The "s" and "c" in the word "sibilance" only contain high frequencies, so you can probably use the filtered sidechain method to compress when those syllables occur. On the other hand, if you want to deal with for example a "boomy" or "boxy" sound you might hear that on consonants instead, but the problem then is that it's possible that you can't just compress those because you're also compressing the overtones that go with them. Those consonants have overtones that matter whereas the "s" doesn't.

So if you want to deal with a specific frequency then use the EQ as an EQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonluka View Post
And do it with plug (during the take) means to have latency...
I assume that you feel that the problem is when you're recording, that you don't like hearing either the tone of your voice without an EQ or the latency with a plugin EQ.

So I would then either look into the routing of your setup and see if there's a way to get that EQ done without recording it. Some DAWs / Interface combinations allow for effects in a separate cue-mix monitoring path and not in the record path.

Or just deal with the fact that it doesn't sound 100% great when you're recording...

Is this PT native by the way or is it TDM or HDX? With the latter latency shouldn't be a problem.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I get the feeling that you've got this a bit 'backwards'.

Putting the EQ on your actual signal instead of the sidechain will act on all frequencies that you have EQed in that signal. So if that's what you mean by "entire track" then you're right.

But it will be on only the undesirable frequency if that's how you dial in your EQ. It's just that it's a consistent amount of cut on that frequency.

However, sidechain only triggers compression, it doesn't isolate frequencies for compression.

If you put an EQ in the sidechain then what you're doing is pushing different frequencies so that they are more responsible for triggering the actual compression circuit, but that circuit still acts on the entire signal when it is compressing. So you can for example push a region that contains your "s" sound - in the sidechain - and that way the compressor will trigger on those sounds earlier. That might be ok to more or less de-ess your signal, but if you're looking to compress for example just 300-400Hz then it might not work out for you, because at the same time as those frequencies exist you're likely to have a bunch of higher frequencies as well... and they'll all get compressed.

The "s" and "c" in the word "sibilance" only contain high frequencies, so you can probably use the filtered sidechain method to compress when those syllables occur. On the other hand, if you want to deal with for example a "boomy" or "boxy" sound you might hear that on consonants instead, but the problem then is that it's possible that you can't just compress those because you're also compressing the overtones that go with them. Those consonants have overtones that matter whereas the "s" doesn't.

So if you want to deal with a specific frequency then use the EQ as an EQ.
My idea is to use my hardware chain like if I'd have a BSS DPR-901 (or like TDR Nova, in the plug world) to reduce around 1.2kHz and around 3kHz (with very tight Q), where the voice becomes too shrill. But I fear that I' should have an eq with sidechain and not a compressor with sidechain... :(


Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I assume that you feel that the problem is when you're recording, that you don't like hearing either the tone of your voice without an EQ or the latency with a plugin EQ.

So I would then either look into the routing of your setup and see if there's a way to get that EQ done without recording it. Some DAWs / Interface combinations allow for effects in a separate cue-mix monitoring path and not in the record path.

Or just deal with the fact that it doesn't sound 100% great when you're recording...

Is this PT native by the way or is it TDM or HDX? With the latter latency shouldn't be a problem.
I use ProTools 12.4 Native, so I have latency problem if I record with insert effect. For example, if I want to stamp my voice with an eq during the recording, I use an AUX track and an AUDIO track:
1) AUX IN --> my mic+preamp;
2) Insert AUX IN---> eq
3) AUX OUT --> AUDIO IN (where record voice)

In this scenario, I must use lowest buffer size (32 sample) because I can't use zero latency monitoring. But this is not enough, because I hear a "flanger effect"....
That's why i'd like to use hardware. Because I WANT to record "equalized"

Last edited by Simonluka; 2 weeks ago at 05:10 AM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
So I would then either look into the routing of your setup and see if there's a way to get that EQ done without recording it.
But... I WANT to record the eq during take! Because in this way, I have the track "almost final" and I don't have to use a lot of process/plugs in mix to fix problems on these bad frequencies...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonluka View Post
My idea is to use my hardware chain like if I'd have a BSS DPR-901 (or like TDR Nova, in the plug world) to reduce around 1.2kHz and 3kHz, where the voice becomes too shrill. But I fear that I' should have an eq with sidechain and not a compressor with sidechain... :(
Well, as far as I see there's no way you can make those two devices into a multiband compressor (like the BSS).

Maybe you should reconsider the "dynamic" part of this. Why do you need it to be a dynamic EQ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #11
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Well, as far as I see there's no way you can make those two devices into a multiband compressor (like the BSS).

Maybe you should reconsider the "dynamic" part of this. Why do you need it to be a dynamic EQ?
I need a multiband EQ (not a multiband compressor).
I need it because I want to correct a couple of unwanted frequencies on the voice during take.
If I use a "normal" (static) eq, the settings affect near frequency too, changing the tone of the entire track.
This is why I would like to use a "dynamic eq" (with a very tight Q) that can tame ONLY that couple of frequencies
Old 2 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
 
BT64's Avatar
You can't do that with this gear.
You need to split the frequency in two streams.
One without the desired frequency range and one with only the desired range.
Last one you lead trough a compressor (not side chain) without gain makeup and mix with the first one.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BT64 View Post
You can't do that with this gear.
You need to split the frequency in two streams.
One without the desired frequency range and one with only the desired range.
Last one you lead trough a compressor (not side chain) without gain makeup and mix with the first one.
Ok. So I believe that the BBS (or something so) is the only way.....
Thanks
Old 2 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 
BT64's Avatar
Type microphone + placement + acoustics can help a lot preventing problems in specific frequency ranges.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #15
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simonluka View Post
Ok. So I believe that the BBS (or something so) is the only way.....
Thanks
For what it's worth; I don't recall ever having seen anyone using something like this while recording. Mixing yes, recording no.

I sort of get what you're trying to do, but if think about it you really get far more options once you're in your DAW. If you feel it's cumbersome or problematic to correct in your DAW then it's likely not going to get easier in analogy, just worse. And it really doesn't take that long to fix once you learn how to do it, set up some presets and templates and so on.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Head
 
Simonluka's Avatar
Ok thanks to everybody
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump