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Classical Guitar recording for CD
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Classical Guitar recording for CD

Hi all,

This is my first time posting here. I've been reading and learning a lot from all of you, so thank you for that! I'm hoping to make my first CD soon, and finally testing all the gears+rooms. I'm planning to record everything myself, then take the project to someone else to edit and master.

Could somebody be so kind to give me some feedback on this recording? It was a quick test so please excuse my playing. I'm not sure if it has a "good enough" quality for a professional recording. Recorded in a Recital Hall, a bit dry but quiet, with a pair of AB stereo Beyerdynamic MC-930. It is a raw file without any editing. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you so much in advance.
Attached Files

Guitar Test.mp3 (2.06 MB, 315 views)

Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
It is mono. That is problem no.1. Can you fix and repost?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
It is mono. That is problem no.1. Can you fix and repost?
Thank you for your reply! I thought it is in Stereo already.. How about now? I joined the 2 tracks (mic) in stereo and bounced it. Is there something I'm missing?
Attached Files

Guitar Test3_1.wav (14.83 MB, 310 views)

Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
At least in my headphones, the file is still mono. Are you certain the two microphones were panned left and right and the output/ bounce settings are set to output a stereo file?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
At least in my headphones, the file is still mono. Are you certain the two microphones were panned left and right and the output/ bounce settings are set to output a stereo file?
That is so strange, yes I am certain they were panned left+right and bounced in stereo. The file looks like this in Logic (I cut the 2nd half out).
Attached Thumbnails
Classical Guitar recording for CD-screen-shot.png  
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
I analyzed the files just to make sure it wasn't a playback problem. Definitely mono. I would double check the daw's channel settings to make sure something is not amiss. Summing to mono can be very problematic with an ab spaced pair.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumleymusic View Post
I analyzed the files just to make sure it wasn't a playback problem. Definitely mono. I would double check the daw's channel settings to make sure something is not amiss. Summing to mono can be very problematic with an ab spaced pair.
Thank you for all your help so far. I've been checking the channels and still don't know how to fix it. I recorded each mic into separate Mono track, Mic 1 to Input 1 and Mic 2 to Input 2, panning left and right, and bounced them to a "stereo" file. Did I do something wrong there? Really sorry for all these super-newbie questions!!

Anyway, other than this, are there other problems with the sound quality that I'm getting?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by trta View Post
Thank you for all your help so far. I've been checking the channels and still don't know how to fix it. I recorded each mic into separate Mono track, Mic 1 to Input 1 and Mic 2 to Input 2, panning left and right, and bounced them to a "stereo" file. Did I do something wrong there? Really sorry for all these super-newbie questions!!

Anyway, other than this, are there other problems with the sound quality that I'm getting?
There shouldn't be much more to it than that. Unfortunately, I don't know Logic very well to suggest anything clever to try. Most DAW's have a master bus/fader which may have a sum-to-mono switch, or channel plugins which may have a similar feature. Are you getting stereo on your output peak meter? You can usually tell if left and right are fluctuating independently (stereo) or if they are summed together and moving in sync. (mono)

It sounds like a nice clean recording, appropriate for classical guitar, and for my money AB spacing is the way to go, though better results are usually found with omni's. You miss a bit of the room and depth with cardioid.

The frequency response seems a bit muffled and weak in the lows which is typical when a spaced pair is summed to mono, I suspect the sound will open up and all will be well once you figure out what the export trouble is.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Addict
 
Zuewi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trta View Post
Thank you for all your help so far. I've been checking the channels and still don't know how to fix it. I recorded each mic into separate Mono track, Mic 1 to Input 1 and Mic 2 to Input 2, panning left and right, and bounced them to a "stereo" file. Did I do something wrong there? Really sorry for all these super-newbie questions!!

Anyway, other than this, are there other problems with the sound quality that I'm getting?
Yea the file is in mono you can see in your graphic also quite well that the two tracks are totally identical.
I guess there was a problem with the bouncing you did. At least you should have after the recording two different tracks in your DAW before you do anything.

About the Quality it sounds ok'ish but not really high end IMHO more than a "Hobby recording" right now without me wanting to Sound rude xD. If it will be Stereo finnaly it helps quite a bit more.
Your playing is nice and the room sounds kinda dry and good i guess. But the recording setup seems bit limited in dynamic range and a bit muddy. No idea which preamps and coverter you use too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuewi View Post
Yea the file is in mono you can see in your graphic also quite well that the two tracks are totally identical.
I guess there was a problem with the bouncing you did. At least you should have after the recording two different tracks in your DAW before you do anything.

About the Quality it sounds ok'ish but not really high end IMHO more than a "Hobby recording" right now without me wanting to Sound rude xD. If it will be Stereo finnaly it helps quite a bit more.
Your playing is nice and the room sounds kinda dry and good i guess. But the recording setup seems bit limited in dynamic range and a bit muddy. No idea which preamps and coverter you use too.
You didn't sound rude at all. I appreciate your honest response and thank you for listening+your kind words about my playing. I also think it didn't sound good. I have one of the best classical guitars ($15k+) and it sounds like a $100 guitar right now. I'm not sure what to fix. For reference, I love the sound of this recording and hope to get as close to that as possible: https://youtu.be/A9UlTGAgEeE

Anyway, I sent my files to a producer and asked if he could make it sound better, and this is what he came up with. If you don't mind, would you (and everyone else on here) be able to take a listen and tell me what you guys think?

I recorded with a pair of Beyerdynamic Mc-930 as well as a pair of Oktava Mk-012 for Room Mics. This mix has all 4 mics in it. The Preamp and Converter are from my audio interface Audient ID44.
Attached Files

Test Guitar Mix.m4a (5.34 MB, 126 views)


Last edited by trta; 3 weeks ago at 06:47 PM.. Reason: adding Mic info
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Some wood diffusion panels will do your sound some good and maybe take away some of the muddiness
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Hi trta.

Classical guitar is from my point of view some of the most difficult instruments to record well. If you get too close to the instrument, nail and other nasty sounds can get trouhgt the mic. And if the room is kind of dead, the sound also is going to be like that, with no projection and no sustain.

The key for me is to find a place that "amplifies" the guitar, it´s very common in great classical guitar recordings to go to a place like a little church or find a sort of a hall. Otherwise even in a proper recording studio where the rec room is not very live you may find yourself with a tiny sound, and man that Villalobos prelude needs some space

My advice is to look in your area for a place like that, is not easy because if it´s near traffic or city noise in general, that is going to be a problem.

Hope it helps, that´s just my taste anyway.

Best regards.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Zuewi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trta View Post
You didn't sound rude at all. I appreciate your honest response and thank you for listening+your kind words about my playing. I also think it didn't sound good. I have one of the best classical guitars ($15k+) and it sounds like a $100 guitar right now. I'm not sure what to fix. For reference, I love the sound of this recording and hope to get as close to that as possible: https://youtu.be/A9UlTGAgEeE

Anyway, I sent my files to a producer and asked if he could make it sound better, and this is what he came up with. If you don't mind, would you (and everyone else on here) be able to take a listen and tell me what you guys think?

I recorded with a pair of Beyerdynamic Mc-930 as well as a pair of Oktava Mk-012 for Room Mics. This mix has all 4 mics in it. The Preamp and Converter are from my audio interface Audient ID44.
Yea it sounds quite a bit better now, it's much clearer and also stero. But costed a bit of Bass and vibe to to get the clearnes.

Unlike you don't want to spend thousand of $ to new Equipment now. Follow the advices with Diffusors and room treatment and search for a good sounding room to record in, experiment with different mic placement how to get the best Sound with the stuff you got.

If you want to spend some money in Equipment i think the best thing is to get something better sounding than a MC-930. I heard lot of Clips from it it's kinda limited for a full sounding guitar. Try to find a Large Condenser Microphone Pair what will fit your Sound taste.
Small Condensers mostly doesn't give you the full Sound in most cases and are mostly better for room mic purpose.

Well the next think is to get a high quality Preamp like NPNG/Pueblo/Forsell… and then a good Converter. But Mic and Preamp will give you the most improvement firstly.

In the Reference file they record with relatively Clear Equipment - it's impossible to get this with the MC930 and without a decent preamp i think. And they have the mics also placed kinda further away so there is a lot of room sound to hear. (Maybe they had too cause they didn't want to show the mics in the Clip and it's a live recording)

Hope that helps you a bit.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
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decocco's Avatar
 

Sounds pretty good. I like your tone.

I think you would benefit by replacing the main pair with a single mic mic with a more “authoritative” midrange/bass focus like a large ribbon or LDC.
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