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Problem with recording keyboard via midi out
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
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Problem with recording keyboard via midi out

Hi

I have a problem with getting midi messages out from my DAW to my Casio keyboard. I want to do this to record sounds
from this keyboard.

I followed this tutorial and want to do exactly what a person shows here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRRaeCw7P2Y&t

I set midi out/in in options as ports 2 (out) and 1 (in) and then in midi out plugin in my DAW I set port 2, so it should
work just fine with my midi output. I also set channel as its on my keyboard, I chose channel 1.

Midi input works fine, but when I record some notes and adjust them (quantize, for example) and want to send them back
through midi out plugin to my keyboard, it does not work. I cannot get sounds from my keyboard.

I learned, that it's because my Casio CT-X5000 have a 48 part sound engine rather than the typical 16 parts found on other
keyboards and that the only way for me to get these sounds from keyboard (beside straight recording them, which I can do,
but I want to do it via midi out) is to use appendix to the CT-X keyboard version with bank program changes listed
for each tone.
https://support.casio.com/storage/en...L-1A_2A_EN.pdf

The problem is, I don't know what to do with this data I find in this pdf file. Where do I put this so I can get this work
with FL studio?

Casio keyboards have patch scripts for some DAWs, unfortunately, FL studio is not among them.

Thanks for reading, any help with this would be great.

Cheers!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
Any musical sound is always going to come from the audio connections of your keyboard/synth. Not from midi. Midi is about controlling the keyboard, it never produces sound.
Have you connected the audio output of your Casio to the audio input in a mixer or your computer?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Any musical sound is always going to come from the audio connections of your keyboard/synth. Not from midi. Midi is about controlling the keyboard, it never produces sound.
Have you connected the audio output of your Casio to the audio input in a mixer or your computer?

I connected my casio line out mono output to my audio interface and I can record sound just fine.

For midi connection I use usb printer cable and I can record midi just fine, too.

What I can't do, is send midi back from my DAW, to my keyboard to make it play sounds which I'd record then via my audio interface. This is exactly what the person does on this tutorial, I do exactly the same and it just does not work. I think that is has something to do with this 48 part sound engine, as one user pointed out to me on another forum. I got the appendix for bank program changes for each tone, but I have no idea how I can put this data to my DAW so it can finally send approriate information to my keyboard.

The appendix of my CT-X model and the video of what I'm trying to accomplish is in my original post.

Thanks for reaching out.

PS
I just thought, that I may hear sounds when I send midi out from my DAW to my keyboard, because it sends one of General Midi instrument information that my instrument recognizes and plays. That would mean that midi out sends data correctly, but can't reach tones I'd like to use. Now I got this appendix and wonder how I can point to my DAW what to send so I can get my desirable tones.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Head
Reading behind the lines (which tbh is quite difficult with the way you're describing things) I'm getting that you want to do patch changes on the fly controlled by MIDI or possibly playback multitimbraly (more than one patch playing at a time).

I can't see anything on the quick spec list that suggests your Casio keyboard has multitimbral control via MIDI.

It looks like it has an internal sequencer and arranger built in and these may need to be used to access more than one sound at a time.

On instruments that are multitimbral, each synth patch runs on it's own midi channel so you would create a separate DAW track for each part all pointing to port 2 but each on it's own midi channel 1 to 16 and then on the synth you'd choose which patch responds to which channel.

As mentioned before but just to reinforce, midi is control only. No audio.

You may have to look to multitrack each part and record in to your daw if you want to control things from that end.

I'd say look at the manual but Casio don't seem to publish one on their website.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumbaguk View Post
Reading behind the lines (which tbh is quite difficult with the way you're describing things) I'm getting that you want to do patch changes on the fly controlled by MIDI or possibly playback multitimbraly (more than one patch playing at a time).

I can't see anything on the quick spec list that suggests your Casio keyboard has multitimbral control via MIDI.

It looks like it has an internal sequencer and arranger built in and these may need to be used to access more than one sound at a time.

On instruments that are multitimbral, each synth patch runs on it's own midi channel so you would create a separate DAW track for each part all pointing to port 2 but each on it's own midi channel 1 to 16 and then on the synth you'd choose which patch responds to which channel.

As mentioned before but just to reinforce, midi is control only. No audio.

You may have to look to multitrack each part and record in to your daw if you want to control things from that end.

I'd say look at the manual but Casio don't seem to publish one on their website.

Hey. I think you misunderstood me. I believe that my DAW sends midi out messages to my keyboard, but these are only the GM (general midi) ones. So it's 128 sounds.

I want to control my keyboard via midi out plugin in my DAW and record sounds that are exclusive to this keyboard (its own tones). I don't know how to do this. Casio has patch scripts for other DAWs, like pro tools or cubase, but not FL studio and even on their site they wrote something like that:

"A patch script is the file which integrates MIDI devices like keyboards with your DAW software.
Installing this file into your DAW, you will be able to select patches by choosing a tone name from the list instead of entering bank numbers and program numbers."

That must mean that I have to manually enter appropriate bank numbers and program numbers from the appendix to the CT-X version. The problem is that I don't know WHERE and HOW to put these bank numbers and program numbers.

The appendix is in my main post, but here it is again:
https://support.casio.com/storage/en...L-1A_2A_EN.pdf
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

You described it fine. You want to take pre-recorded MIDI from your DAW and make the keyboard play it back, so you can record the resulting audio. Very common to do with synths that have a MIDI out.

May i ask why, though? Casio keyboards are not renowned for the quality of their internal sounds. I’m pretty sure you can find much better sounds inside your DAW as plug-ins.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
You need to match the midi out in your DAW to the midi in on the Casio.
Maybe just forget the Casio to DAW midi for the moment.
Set the midi output of that channel in your DAW to ch1, then set the midi in on your Casio to ch1.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Gear Head
Ok sorry about that.

I'm still a little confused though as unless you're planning on doing patch changes there is absolutely no need to send program control message from the DAW.

Manually set the keyboard to the patch you want from it's control surface and then send midi note on/off to the correct port and channel.

No need to send program control changes.

The issue you're having is more of a how do I use Fruity loops question than relating to your keyboard.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
You described it fine. You want to take pre-recorded MIDI from your DAW and make the keyboard play it back, so you can record the resulting audio. Very common to do with synths that have a MIDI out.

May i ask why, though? Casio keyboards are not renowned for the quality of their internal sounds. I’m pretty sure you can find much better sounds inside your DAW as plug-ins.
Yep I want to do exactly that, but I can't because of the reasons I mentioned in my first and second post.

You asked why.

I want to do that, because the CT-X5000 model has a new AiX engine which made acoustic sounds sound beautiful. It's a fairly new model it's from 2018. That's what Casio wrote about it engine:
"At the heart of the CT-X5000 is a revolutionary new sound engine, called AiX. This stands for Acoustic Intelligent Expression, and is many times more powerful than previous technology.

As well as using high resolution sampling, which reacts to your touch for greater dynamic control, AiX applies advanced DSP effects to every tone, for an incredibly realistic sound that has to be tried to be believed."


So I want to record them. They really sound good.

Here's a piano from this keyboard, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaxVO8DdLc
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
MIDI Output
These options are used to select a MIDI Output interface, so FL Studio can send MIDI signals to outboard gear (Synthesizer, Drum Machine, Sampler, etc). Click on the MIDI output interface to be used, once an interface is selected it will become highlighted. For each interface selected you can make independent 'Send master sync' and 'Port number' settings. While only one MIDI Output interface can be used with FL Studio at a time, you can daisy-chain multiple MIDI devices to the Output interface, see the note below.
Output - List of detected MIDI devices in or connected to the system. Click devices in the list to set independent 'Send master sync' and 'Port' options.

Port - This is a unique channel over which MIDI data is communicated between MIDI devices (256 Ports are available). The option assigns a Port number to your MIDI interface (Port numbers don't apply to external MIDI hardware attached to a MIDI interface, just the interface itself).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumbaguk View Post
Ok sorry about that.

I'm still a little confused though as unless you're planning on doing patch changes there is absolutely no need to send program control message from the DAW.

Manually set the keyboard to the patch you want from it's control surface and then send midi note on/off to the correct port and channel.

No need to send program control changes.

The issue you're having is more of a how do I use Fruity loops question than relating to your keyboard.
No problem.

You see, I set midi out both in DAWs midi settings and midi out plugin (which is necessary to send midi message to keyboard) to the same port, and then in this midi out plugin I set channel the same as I have on my keyboard. And then... Nothing happens. No matter which sound I choose on keyboard, it does not play. The only sounds that play are GM (general midi) ones available in midi outs plugin. I believe that it sends their information to my keyboard and it then plays them. But it's not what I want. I don't want these 128 generic sounds. I want to use tones exclusive to my keyboard. And I don't know how to do it.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Gear Head
If you really must insist on doing patch changes from the daw you need to look at column 4 and 5 in the appendix you linked.

4 is the value for "Program" and 5 is the value for "bank".

In the logic channel strip I can enter either of these values in the MIDI channel strip.

https://imgur.com/a/Lo56hjd
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
You need to match the midi out in your DAW to the midi in on the Casio.
Maybe just forget the Casio to DAW midi for the moment.
Set the midi output of that channel in your DAW to ch1, then set the midi in on your Casio to ch1.

I did exactly that. I set midi out to port 2 in my DAW's settings, then I set midi out plugin (as in the video) to port 2, too. I chose channel 1 in this plugin as I set channel 1 in my keyboard settings. My keyboard does not have many midi settings, just:
1. channel (which I set to 1)
2. local (to play local sound or not)
3. accompaniament out (I don't know what that is)

I'm connected via usb printer cable if it changes anything.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
I believe he just wants to play the Casio sounds from midi in his DAW.
Everything else is just an extreme over complication.
To make it as simple as possible. Just connect the USB midi, then select the same channel number as your output in FL Studio, and the same channel number on your keyboard midi in.
I reposted Fruity Loop's midi instructions above.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlor View Post
I did exactly that. I set midi out to port 2 in my DAW's settings, then I set midi out plugin (as in the video) to port 2, too. I chose channel 1 in this plugin as I set channel 1 in my keyboard settings. My keyboard does not have many midi settings, just:
1. channel (which I set to 1)
2. local (to play local sound or not)
3. accompaniament out (I don't know what that is)

I'm connected via usb printer cable if it changes anything.
So you need to set MIDI OUT to ch1 in Fruity Loops.
You are sending your midi on ch2 out, but your Casio is set to ch1.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
Gear Head
Can you take some screen shots of how you've set this up in FL?

Something is obviously wrong as this is all extremely simple stuff.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Page 117 of the English manual...
Your Casio keyboard has 1 to 16 midi channels.
Usually it is set to ch1 by default. So the midi output of the track in FL Studio needs to be set to midi channel 1, for the Casio to see the midi coming in.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
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I'll be back in a few minutes with screen shots. I'm going to test different settings, too.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #19
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Here are the pictures:

https://imgur.com/a/VeYzUKi

I set it as its shown in the video I posted in my first post (midi out ports are matched and channels are matched, too).

I matched my keyboard midi channel with midi outs plugin channel, both are set to 1
midi out in daw settings is port 2, so is in midi out plugin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
So you need to set MIDI OUT to ch1 in Fruity Loops.
You are sending your midi on ch2 out, but your Casio is set to ch1.
I don't quite understand you. You seem to mix midi channels and midi ports in what you're saying.

"you are sending your midi on ch2 out, but your Casio is set to ch1"
I'm sending on port 2, not channel 2, and casio has channel set on 1, nor port. I don't have port options in my keyboard.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
Gear Head
Thanks for the screen shots.

Just a thought.

Why port two?

If your Casio is is connected via USB to the computer and not a MIDI cable to port 2 on your audio interface you'll be selecting the Casio as the midi output device and I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't PORT 1 you needed.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Head
Port two might be giving you access to the MIDI out port on the back of Casio which isn't what you want with port 1 routed to the keyboard itself.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
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DistortingJack's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlor View Post
That's what Casio wrote about it engine:
"At the heart of the CT-X5000 is a revolutionary new sound engine, called AiX. This stands for Acoustic Intelligent Expression, and is many times more powerful than previous technology.

As well as using high resolution sampling, which reacts to your touch for greater dynamic control, AiX applies advanced DSP effects to every tone, for an incredibly realistic sound that has to be tried to be believed."


So I want to record them. They really sound good.

Here's a piano from this keyboard, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbaxVO8DdLc
I heard it. It's... OK.
For live performances it's very good. It looks like it's very playable and it's well-sampled. It still very much sounds like a sampled piano – it's bright and "clackety". It's usable, I'll give you that. But compare it to a good piano plug-in, though:



This guy is like £120. The Garritan CFX is even better, although more expensive.

If you don't want to spend any money, there's this guy which is free – the Yamaha piano is at least as good as your Casio I'd say:



Here's the download link.

Just mentioning that just in case this becomes cumbersome or impractical; there are other options out there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumbaguk View Post
Thanks for the screen shots.

Just a thought.

Why port two?

If your Casio is is connected via USB to the computer and not a MIDI cable to port 2 on your audio interface you'll be selecting the Casio as the midi output device and I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't PORT 1 you needed.
No problem.

Yeah it's connected via printer cable USB-B goes to keyboard and USB-A goes to PC, not audio interface. That is the only way I can do it.

I tried what you said and changed to port 1. It did not change anything.

As I said earlier and you can read in my first post, I think that it has to do with the new 48 part sound engine casio has and not 16 part as older gear. I probably has to use the data in appendix from casio but I don't know how.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DistortingJack View Post
Just mentioning that just in case this becomes cumbersome or impractical; there are other options out there.
Thanks for link, I didn't know about this one. Still, it's 120$ for one instrument vst and for this entire keyboard I paid about 400$ (which has dozens of pianos/organs etc.).

The other one for free is definitely worth a look, though.

I guess that with a bit of eq, reverb, compression maybe some other tools it'll be hard for anyone to tell a difference between paid & free piano if the free one was just fine to start with.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlor View Post

As I said earlier and you can read in my first post, I think that it has to do with the new 48 part sound engine casio has and not 16 part as older gear. I probably has to use the data in appendix from casio but I don't know how.
I know you keep repeating this but I really don't think that's got anything to do with this and tbh I don't even know what that means in the context you keep saying it.

It really should be as simple as selecting the correct midi output device which is the casio, setting the midi out in the DAW to port 1 and channel 1 and that's it.

Midi note on and off will work.

How are you monitoring the keyboard to hear if it's making sounds? Through the DAW or direct from the keyboard?

Try plugging in headphones to the keyboard, can you hear anything when you send a note on message?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumbaguk View Post
Port two might be giving you access to the MIDI out port on the back of Casio which isn't what you want with port 1 routed to the keyboard itself.

What do you mean by "port 1 routed to the keyboard itself"? Port 1 (input) in my pictures is for input in DAW. The DAW receives messages on port 1, not the keyboard.

It's port 2 that is routed to keyboard (output port). DAW -> Keyboard.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #27
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlor View Post
Thanks for link, I didn't know about this one. Still, it's 120$ for one instrument vst and for this entire keyboard I paid about 400$ (which has dozens of pianos/organs etc.).

The other one for free is definitely worth a look, though.

I guess that with a bit of eq, reverb, compression maybe some other tools it'll be hard for anyone to tell a difference between paid & free piano if the free one was just fine to start with.
For much less then you paid for the keyboard you could have got Native Instrument komplete select which has a whole bunch of virtual instruments which are going to have far larger and higher quality samples.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scumbaguk View Post
I know you keep repeating this but I really don't think that's got anything to do with this and tbh I don't even know what that means in the context you keep saying it.

It really should be as simple as selecting the correct midi output device which is the casio, setting the midi out in the DAW to port 1 and channel 1 and that's it.

Midi note on and off will work.

How are you monitoring the keyboard to hear if it's making sounds? Through the DAW or direct from the keyboard?

Try plugging in headphones to the keyboard, can you hear anything when you send a note on message?
Here's some more context (Look at Brad Saucier's post at the bottom of the page.):
https://www.casiomusicforums.com/ind...1&_fromLogin=1



I monitored both through headphones listening via direct monitor on audio interface, and directly through keyboard speakers. Same.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #29
Gear Head
Exclamation

snip
Old 3 weeks ago
  #30
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artlor View Post
Here's some more context (Look at Brad Saucier's post at the bottom of the page.):
https://www.casiomusicforums.com/ind...1&_fromLogin=1



I monitored both through headphones listening via direct monitor on audio interface, and directly through keyboard speakers. Same.
Ok fair enough.

Regarding Brad Saucier post.

I've mentioned how to decode the appendix to work out the bank and program change numbers.

Find out how to access that in FL and we might be getting somewhere.

p.s. if Brad is right, this is indeed 48 part multitimbral with up to 16 channels addressed from MIDI and the rest from the internal sequencer which is why it requires banks and program instructions.
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