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Phase invert, why does it affect my sound?
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Magnetophone's Avatar
 

Phase invert, why does it affect my sound?

Hello!
Thank you for taking time to read this.
I've just noticed that phase invert change my mono bass. When I invert phase my bass sounds as if I boost low frequencies in equalizer. In the same time spectrum analyzer doesn't show any changes.
I started to experiment with different type of sounds and noticed that when I use sine, triangle or rectangle wave then inverting phase doesn't affect the sound.
But when I use the sound with complex harmonics then phase invert change the sound.

I thought the problem in my DAW. But I tried two different program with the same effect.
The question is not about phase cancellation when we use two or more sounds. The question is why phase invert affect one mono sound?
I cant find any information about that.

Please explain why does it happen?
And how to define which sound is correct when we click phase button?

Here are a couple of examples.
Attached Files

Bass_1.mp3 (63.2 KB, 171 views)

Bass_1_phase inverted.mp3 (63.2 KB, 163 views)

Bass_2.mp3 (61.2 KB, 173 views)

Bass_2_phase inverted.mp3 (61.2 KB, 165 views)

Old 1 week ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
often because the cone drivers which finally reproduce the signal, are forced to start in the opposite direction.
Old 6 days ago
  #3
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I'm not hearing it. Certainly not 'as if one has a low eq boosted.
Old 5 days ago
  #4
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
it won't always be easy to hear. but an example thought experiment could go like. lets assume you have a basic synth waveform, and lets assume you put it through a distortion or overdrive process whereby the process is a half wave rectification. if all the distortion is in the positive phase of the waveform, then the distortion is on the wavefront coming from the front of the speaker. if you invert the polarity of the speaker wires, it's now coming predominantly from the rear of the cone. so the internals of the cabinet could start to soak up those distortions in that case. tweeters probably operate differently so would likely be less of a difference.

an inverted symmetrical kick drum signal might have an effect in a mix, because it's now having the cones being forced backwards by some portion of the signal, which it wasn't previously until the polarity of that particular signal component was inverted. so you might perceive more low end, or a more controlled low end. in that case. in solo, the kick might sound indistinguishable in either polarity but in context have an effect.
Old 5 days ago
  #5
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edva's Avatar
I think it's probably affecting a null or peak in your room, so you are hearing that difference.
Which direction the speaker cone moves is of practically zero effect.
Yes, reversing polarity reverses the movement of the cone.
But there are thousands of movements per second, and other than shifting the location of peaks and troughs slightly in the space, there is very little if any difference when reversing polarity "overall", i.e. on the "mix" (or solo) you are listening to, as opposed to reversing polarity on elements _within a mix. That is clearly audible, because it is heard in relation to other in-phase signals.
But overall, or on its own, it will sound "the same" either way, if you move your listening position slightly. IME and IMHO.
Good luck.
Old 5 days ago
  #6
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Magnetophone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muser View Post
it won't always be easy to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
I think it's probably affecting a null or peak in your room, so you are hearing that difference.
Thank you for your input!

But I still don't understand a few things.

1. Inverting phase can help me increase/decrease perceiving of the low end?

2. Does this mean that my mix may sound very different on a different speaker system? I mean a listener has a speaker system where both speakers have inverted phase. And a listener will hear less or more bass sound.

3. How to define which sound is right?
I hear the difference in headphones and studio monitors and can't decide the right way.

Maybe I just shouldn't worry about this issue? But still...
Old 5 days ago
  #7
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnetophone View Post
Thank you for your input!

But I still don't understand a few things.

1. Inverting phase can help me increase/decrease perceiving of the low end?

2. Does this mean that my mix may sound very different on a different speaker system? I mean a listener has a speaker system where both speakers have inverted phase. And a listener will hear less or more bass sound.

3. How to define which sound is right?
I hear the difference in headphones and studio monitors and can't decide the right way.

Maybe I just shouldn't worry about this issue? But still...
1. Yes. Combined with your physical location in relation to the speaker (or headphone driver), the listener will _perceive (good word) a difference. If you change one or the other (either the phase, or the physical location), then the difference is largely negated.

2. Yes. All mixes sound different on different systems, in different spaces.
Whether you flip phase or not. It is difficult if not impossible to account for all the inaccuracies in all the listening environments everywhere. So you do your best to create a mix that "translates" well. But ultimately you have little or no control over the playback once it's on someone else's system.

3. That is purely subjective. At some point, you trust your ears and pick one. Keep listening until you decide. Good luck.

Last edited by edva; 5 days ago at 09:53 PM.. Reason: +.
Old 5 days ago
  #8
Here for the gear
 
Magnetophone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
1. Yes. Combined with your physical location in relation to the speaker (or headphone driver), the listener will _perceive (good word) a difference. If you change one or the other (either the phase, or the physical location), then the difference is largely negated.

2. Yes. All mixes sound different on different systems, in different spaces.
Whether you flip phase or not. It is difficult if not impossible to account for all the inaccuracies in all the listening environments everywhere. So you do your best to create a mix that "translates" well. But ultimately you have little or no control over the playback once it's on someone else's system.

3. That is purely subjective. At some point, you trust your ears and pick one. Keep listening until you decide. Good luck.
Thank you so much! Now it become more clear.
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