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Phase Inverting
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
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Phase Inverting

I was watching an online tutorial recently about dealing with phase cancellation. The guy was using gain plugins to invert the phase, then afterwards he said that you should make a note somewhere (either on paper or in the DAW) about which tracks you inverted the phase on. Unfortunately he didnt explain why. ||

Why would this be relevant? Is it important to remember which tracks have been phase inverted?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
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Mundox's Avatar
Phase flip is only good to play with in a multi-mic situation.
Like for a drum set, guitar amp front/rear, far/near mics etc.
It is important to know which mics are flipped for when you come to mix the next day and want to change things around.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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Phase reversal is only needed when signals are 100% out of phase. Top and bottom head snare mics or a combo amp that's been miced from the front and back of the speaker where the mic signals will be 180 degrees out of phase.
The other possibility is if you have a balanced mic cable wired in reverse.

Normally drum mics will have the most problems with phase cancellation caused by bleed over between mics. Its the amount of bleed vs direct mic capturing that drum that causes the problems. If the mics are well placed before recording and the bleed and direct are "in phase" then the two are "additive" and make the drums sound better then using a single mic. If the direct and bleed over mics are out of phase, then the signals produce cancellation which is subtractive which makes things sound thin and out of phase.

How much they are in or out of phase is primarily based on mic distances. There's only one chance in 360 that mics will be perfectly out of phase where that switch will correct the sound completely. Normally the amount of phase will be in between some place like 10, 20, 45, 60 degrees etc. The only good way to fix it is by moving mics till its corrected.
Once recorded you can shift tracks to try and fix it or use a phase plugin but these are mainly band aids to fix problems that shouldn't have happened if you learn how to set multiple mics up and track properly.

Last edited by wrgkmc; 4 weeks ago at 06:06 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
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Mundox's Avatar
If I receive live tracks from elsewhere, I go through the channels and try different phase inversion combos just to make sure I have the best possible result. More than once I had better results flipping the kick in relation to OHs or room mics.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
Gear Head
 

Sorry for hijavkibg the thread. But when is phase inversion useful in sample/synth based music Production ?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by magik87 View Post
Sorry for hijavkibg the thread. But when is phase inversion useful in sample/synth based music Production ?
it's not
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post
it's not
I'm sure I've come across some "synth" sounds that were excessively wide (by virtue of phase/polarity trickery ?), so much so that flipping the polarity of one side improved them.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnieK View Post
I'm sure I've come across some "synth" sounds that were excessively wide (by virtue of phase/polarity trickery ?), so much so that flipping the polarity of one side improved them.
most synths have "fake stereo" processing..when i cut synth players first thing i do is tell them to go to FX page and shut off all exf..i explain that i can duplicate them way better in my DAW

if the sound sucks find another sound..IMHO no diss or anything..why start with crap ???
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigma View Post

if the sound sucks find another sound..IMHO no diss or anything..why start with crap ???
Totally. But if yr given tracks with the sound already printed...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naoki971 View Post
I was watching an online tutorial recently about dealing with phase cancellation. The guy was using gain plugins to invert the phase, then afterwards he said that you should make a note somewhere (either on paper or in the DAW) about which tracks you inverted the phase on. Unfortunately he didnt explain why. ||

Why would this be relevant? Is it important to remember which tracks have been phase inverted?
I remember hearing something like that as well. thinking about it, I'd assume it's because an engineer would generally always remember facts about what general setup was used. but the missing information is what was inverted and what wasn't. it's part of the sound of that particular signal and if you know the starting conditions, it makes it quicker to refer back to it exactly. as well as knowing if using the inverter in the DAW, places the track signal in one or the other inversion modes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
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Sigma's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnieK View Post
Totally. But if yr given tracks with the sound already printed...
2 options..

if its an unfixable part and midi'd id ask the client to provide a non efx wav

if ya gotta deal with it ...dont exacerbate the issue and notify the client so they learn a valuable lesson..
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